For Side Winder rider's

[canuck5]

I went with the the black orange dalton spring in secondary the position they recommend was 6-1 70deg I took it one further to 9 and closer to 90deg. Once I get a new bov in next ride I will have some track speed numbers. Snow was not quite as deep this last ride but sled still got a really good workout defiantly didn't feel that slippage at wot. I'm guessing I will need a little more weight once full boost is pulled again with that spring in. My biggest issue with clutching for 8800rpm is snow conditions I'd rather bang the rev limiter in set up conditions than fall back to 8600 in the deep stuff.

 

[Lund]

Do you have access to one of these from EVO?
If you don't i recommend you try to get one as they are remapping the ecu you really need to know the HP and torque curvatures to get the most out of your set up.
This is the one for MCX 250 set up, and if you look at the dyno reading's on their tune you would want to be in the 88-8900rpm range to maximize hp and torque combination. Anything above you start to fall off the curve and that is a common mistake with tuners cause once you fall off the curve the motor will struggle to regain and generally doesn't. Once your set in the peak zone, unless there is something else going on a four stroke won't fall off like a two stroke. I know that is a common tuning method with 2 strokes to aim a little higher for when you load the track it will settle in its peak zone. Not so much with a 4 stroke.
Another thing to consider is the weight PROFILE, just as important as the weight it self.
I looked at the Dalton weights your using and it appears to me that they are universal for turbo 4 stroke Yamaha's and not so much application design.
This will change the game all together as i'm using Yamaha weights for mountain sled's (curvature) and not trail curvature or Dalton general curvature.

Looking at my chart and actually the idea target is 8800rpm and not 8900rpm. The motor has a higher Lambda reading so it will hold RPM on a load better then if it was targeted at 8900rpm. In fact the lambda drop significantly at 8900 and higher RPMs.
If EVO has similar out come's that explains why the motor could fall on its face once its loaded at higher RPMs.
Actually i think i'm wrong, correction, 8900 would be better.

 

[Kibbels]

I went with the the black orange dalton spring in secondary the position they recommend was 6-1 70deg I took it one further to 9 and closer to 90deg. Once I get a new bov in next ride I will have some track speed numbers. Snow was not quite as deep this last ride but sled still got a really good workout defiantly didn't feel that slippage at wot. I'm guessing I will need a little more weight once full boost is pulled again with that spring in. My biggest issue with clutching for 8800rpm is snow conditions I'd rather bang the rev limiter in set up conditions than fall back to 8600 in the deep stuff.

You order EVO as we chatted about?

 

[Lunch_Box]

Seems to be the only dyno chart available for the EVO stage 4. I asked for a HP/Torque vs. RPM to fine tune my clutching to the torque curve but nothing, just told to aim between 9000-9200 RPM.

 

[Lund]

258hp @ 144ftlbs of torque, what's wrong with that picture?
Even at 250hp the torque doesn't reach 150ftlbs and the best the chart show is in the first 1.5sec. of run time, after that its kinda down hill.
I don't know how good that graph truly is, if its true the number's truly suck, sure it has hp but no torque.

Here is the chart from MCX on a BONE STOCK winder.
193hp @ 154ftlbs of torque.

 

[canuck5]

You order EVO as we chatted about?

Yea talked to Gene

 

[Lunch_Box]

258hp @ 144ftlbs of torque, what's wrong with that picture?
Even at 250hp the torque doesn't reach 150ftlbs and the best the chart show is in the first 1.5sec. of run time, after that its kinda down hill.
I don't know how good that graph truly is, if its true the number's truly suck, sure it has hp but no torque.

Here is the chart from MCX on a BONE STOCK winder.
193hp @ 154ftlbs of torque.
http://www.mcx.se/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Sidewinderstock3.jpg

I have been looking at every dyno chart I can find on the internet and no others are close to the 154ftlbs of torque for a stock Sidewinder. Now I know each dyno is different but not that and conditions aren't the same but not that different to create such a range in numbers. But even with the EVO numbers you can look at it as a 36.8ftlb gain from stock.

 

[Lund]

Was out yesterday cutting big pow and trying out another change i made.
I felt imo that the Winder didn't transfer weight as well as other sleds unless you got on the throttle hard enough and though the steering felt ok, to my standards it still felt heavy. Infact heavier then my modified Nytro and i emphasize modified cause my Nytro never felt heavy.
So after several careful suspension set up attempts i determined that Yamaha had done a poor job with the center spring and it had no to too little adjustment available.
EZsmoke confirmed this when he told me the same with his Winder and recommended a spring swap.

So i picked a heavier center spring matched to my weight and cargo from Zbroz and yesterday was first ride with it.
Immediately the difference was noticed, the handle bar felt so much lighter. I swap sleds with the wife new Cat and the Winder steering was better and easier. I might had to do some changes to the wife Cat now LOL.
When we got out in the deep one of the thing i had noticed about the Winder was at a slow easy take off the sled would break loose and you would feel it back end drop slightly. This was really only noticeable at an easy take off.
Now with the new spring the breaking loose is completely eliminated, i even attempted to make it doit by piling extra snow and packing it pretty good on the front of the sled and see if it would break loose. All it did is push through it with zero slippage(trenching).
If you find your having similar problems with your Winder i highly recommend replacing your center spring, its an easy cheap upgrade. IMO best bang for the buck on a Winder so far.

 

[Lund]

BTW, i suspect this will increase the wheelie effect of the Winder and possibly why Yamaha went with the calibration that they did a weak center spring will help control wheelies. Yesterday i never got a chance to try some climbs, rode meadows and tree line mostly.
I'm sure i will be finding out very soon how this will effect wheelies, if its a problem a QS3 or scissor lock might be up coming changes.

 

[Catman10]

Just got home from an epic ride in Revy with my good bud Niner and my son. We played in the deep all weekend and I got to run Lunds reccomended clutching and I have to say that he hit it out of the park. I noticed that it pulled much harder and my trackspeeds are up forsure, I did see 61 mph once but the best part is with the profile of the weights there is no sacrifice on the bottom end or midrange and I think that the longer the pull the better for these weights for trackspeed but in the trees it was super responsive, I thought it was as good as stock or better. We did many short steep pulls and I was caught off guard by the difference at first, my sled rocks and is definately faster so if you guys are thinking about a change this is worthwhile one. I apreciate the help Lund I was giving you hi 5's today, you just didnt know it.

 

[Lund]

Now i wouldn't be BSing you guy's would i LOL. Yamaha left a lot on the table in the HP and clutching department, without getting into a tuner.
Its all about finding the right combination to unlock it, once you do the Winder is top tier.
Its a great feeling when your sled pull's the way it was intended.
At 60+mph, how is Niner turbo keeping ?

To my knowledge now there are only 3 Winder's on stock tune capable of 60+mph consistently.
I think even the tuned boys are struggling with that.

We need to have a group ride, you guys were in Revy, i live not far from Revy.

I very much appreciate the feed back it help's with tuning when guy's get back to you. Neg or Pos.
The high 5 must of made my day cause i could feel something good all day long happening LOL.

 

[niner]

Everything Paul says I can confirm. His sled is pulling really hard. He is still over revving and needs more weight on the tips. My new engine is pulling harder than before and I was seeing 57 mph on the same hill. Our sleds are still very close. We did some hill drags and he pulled me on the bottom and then I stayed with him the whole way.

 

[Lund]

Everything Paul says I can confirm. His sled is pulling really hard. He is still over revving and needs more weight on the tips. My new engine is pulling harder than before and I was seeing 57 mph on the same hill. Our sleds are still very close. We did some hill drags and he pulled me on the bottom and then I stayed with him the whole way.

Very nice, i believe he's not running any tune either? Just stock.

 

[Catman10]

Completely stock with a straightpipe, i could not weigh up your weights properly as the rivets had to be ordered so i am 4 grams light with the rivets i could round up but I know it will only pull harder and I am excited. I want to try your heavier spring in the rear suspension next, which one did you get for this? My skid is really dialed in but that little change will really make anyone wonder why they are driving a 2 stroke if the steering gets a little lighter. I am extremely happy with my sled and my confidence is way up there now cuz this sled is capable of anything you throw at it. Definately want to get together with you boys lets set up a date soon, I am available any weekend in March, we can swap rides and compare!

 

[E-Zmoke]

Completely stock with a straightpipe, i could not weigh up your weights properly as the rivets had to be ordered so i am 4 grams light with the rivets i could round up but I know it will only pull harder and I am excited. I want to try your heavier spring in the rear suspension next, which one did you get for this? My skid is really dialed in but that little change will really make anyone wonder why they are driving a 2 stroke if the steering gets a little lighter. I am extremely happy with my sled and my confidence is way up there now cuz this sled is capable of anything you throw at it. Definately want to get together with you boys lets set up a date soon, I am available any weekend in March, we can swap rides and compare!

I have steel 17.2mm rivets in stock if you need some, and should be stocked back up on replacement FTS springs

 

[E-Zmoke]

Was out yesterday cutting big pow and trying out another change i made.
I felt imo that the Winder didn't transfer weight as well as other sleds unless you got on the throttle hard enough and though the steering felt ok, to my standards it still felt heavy. Infact heavier then my modified Nytro and i emphasize modified cause my Nytro never felt heavy.
So after several careful suspension set up attempts i determined that Yamaha had done a poor job with the center spring and it had no to too little adjustment available.
EZsmoke confirmed this when he told me the same with his Winder and recommended a spring swap.

So i picked a heavier center spring matched to my weight and cargo from Zbroz and yesterday was first ride with it.
Immediately the difference was noticed, the handle bar felt so much lighter. I swap sleds with the wife new Cat and the Winder steering was better and easier. I might had to do some changes to the wife Cat now LOL.
When we got out in the deep one of the thing i had noticed about the Winder was at a slow easy take off the sled would break loose and you would feel it back end drop slightly. This was really only noticeable at an easy take off.
Now with the new spring the breaking loose is completely eliminated, i even attempted to make it doit by piling extra snow and packing it pretty good on the front of the sled and see if it would break loose. All it did is push through it with zero slippage(trenching).
If you find your having similar problems with your Winder i highly recommend replacing your center spring, its an easy cheap upgrade. IMO best bang for the buck on a Winder so far.

Glad you liked the new spring and confirmed what I was reporting, I agree best bang for your buck mod for the Sidewinder! Its amazing how big of a change it makes!! Wait until you try the vertical steering in conjunction with that spring. It’s a completely different sled

 

[Trukker]

You guys are talking 2017 MTX rear skid right ? My 18 doesn't wheelie much at all

 

[Kibbels]

You guys are talking 2017 MTX rear skid right ? My 18 doesn't wheelie much at all

Trukker you running QSL?

 

[E-Zmoke]

You guys are talking 2017 MTX rear skid right ? My 18 doesn't wheelie much at all

Correct 2017 Front Track Spring

 

[Lund]

You guys are talking 2017 MTX rear skid right ? My 18 doesn't wheelie much at all

Yes this is on 17 units. Its not because it wheelies much. But the steering and handling effort can be improved by installing a heavier center spring on the rear skid.
By doing so it will increase the effect of wheelies, all depending on how you ride.