For Side Winder rider's

[06 Dragon]

Great thread guys. Thanks, have to try some of your guys tips to get the viper running to her full Capability.

 

[xsummit]

Thank you Lund for posting this vital info about our sleds.
My current set up. 2017 sidewinder mtx 162 camso x3 cr intake and resonator. Stock tune. Thunder products heavy hitters current weight 70.1 grams. Tuff guy secondary spring set to 3 and 1. This set up made my sled into an animal to say the least. Will increase weights to about 74 grams. A foot of fresh this week on top of a foot of fresh last weekend yielded an easy 60 mph track speed. Ran out of hill to climb. 7350 ft elevation 9100 rpm.

Again... thanks Lund

 

[Lund]

I would love to know your clutching and gearing because my sled is basically identical to yours except i have stock gearing and clutching and you are getting 13 mph more trackspeed than me? I have put 700 kms on my sled with a 174 and see constant speeds of 52-55 mph depending on snow, I have to say I love your numbers but have a hard time believing a 12 mph difference. Even if I was in super fluffy stuff i dont think i would see 67 mph, even geared down and different helix and springs would be a stretch to get there, are you sure your speedo is accurate now with your driver changes etc, not picking on you here but seems like your numbers are a little hi, i would love to get more speed outta mine with gearing etc but no one has really done it yet as these are so new to the game. I like this forum because of the learning aspect so please share your setup!

I have stock tune. Lightweight battery, 2.8/162 track and cr resonater. I see 54-56mph climbing out of airport bowl on boulder last weekend. I had to put qay66 weights in it to keep it off the rev limiter after cutting the 40lbs. Stock springs and helix. What are you guys running for clutching ?

So this 67mph has me perplexed as I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed. So you had 8 tooth in BTX now 7. That being said you are calibrated for 8 tooth now I don’t know exact OD measurements however I suspect this could be 10-13% error. Also I’m going to guess that your bottom is 52 = 2.476 R .. with a Stock MTX helix with possibly stock MTX Spring wound tight as your sisters arse. Since this is a guessing game.., as many or all are getting 55-56 either it be 162 or 174... interesting enough 174 is pulling down rpm as per expected but still achieve consistent 55 in all conditions. So for chits & giggles with a 2.5R and some different clutching are we looking at 58 mph track speed?? Not saying your wrong I’m just racking my little brain... look forward to your feed back!!

Ok... I’m struggling with the 67.. actual I’m jealous lol. I’m amazed that much is found in clutching.

Not to start a pissing contest as I don’t own a sidewinder, yet, Strongly considering one for my next sled, but this whole 67mph thing doesn’t jive, not saying you don’t know what your doing Lund, or that at some point you didn’t see 67mph on your display, you built a nice sled and your clutching knowledge is top notch but you’ve got these guys chasing a number that in real climbing situations simply isn’t attainable with any less than 260hp. Maybe with all your changes your speedo is out or maybe you pulled a small hill in extremely loose snow, either way, it’s not a realistic number, sorry. I would be VERY surprised if a properly set up winder WITH a tune, pipe, etc spinning a 174 3” could be capable of breaking the magical 100kmh / 62mph mark. I wish you all the best of luck but if your stock sleds are spinning the 162 3” at 55+ mph, that’s very impressive, don’t be ashamed of that number. The claim of gaining 12mph or 22% track speed over stock with no tune while also spinning a 174 just doesn’t add up.

So is 60+mph achievable boy's, all season i saw speed's exceeding the 60 mark, common numbers seen were 64-65mph.
We are now seeing other rider's achieving similar number's. THAT'S AWESOME.
The Side Winder is an animal in stock form, no doubt about that.
Now how about the powerup guy's, not much feed back, last i heard they are struggling for the 60 mark.

 

[iceback]

Running Hurricane 270 with super tuners stock springs 33/35 helix seeing 70 to 73 mph at 9700ft on deep steep climbs.

 

[Lund]

That is what i expect from a powerup, 70+mph, thanks Norcal.
I'm literally out of ratio's with my setup, i could squeeze 5mph with the MCX250 with this set up, i'm sure in super deep stuff but IMO hardly worth it till i regear and widen the ratio out a bit.
That is in the works for next season, different gears to match the MCX250 and i expect to change out the helix to the 33/35 simply because the added HP will demand a heavier weight to shift out properly and the straight 35deg won't be enough to amplify the weight force i'm currently running.

 

[Lunch_Box]

Got to do a few runs this past weekend; Evo stage 4, 2.5" straight pipe, cold air intake and aluminium intercooler piping, Thunder products heavy hitters. Was seeing around 72mph with about 2' of fresh on a decent incline. Had a roll in the middle of the pull so had to come off the throttle but sled is pulling hard at 9000rpm.

 

[Lund]

Got to do a few runs this past weekend; Evo stage 4, 2.5" straight pipe, cold air intake and aluminium intercooler piping, Thunder products heavy hitters. Was seeing around 72mph with about 2' of fresh on a decent incline. Had a roll in the middle of the pull so had to come off the throttle but sled is pulling hard at 9000rpm.

What did you end up doing to the sled, i remember you trying to find dyno numbers for torque and hp curves for setting up.

 

[Lunch_Box]

What did you end up doing to the sled, i remember you trying to find dyno numbers for torque and hp curves for setting up.

I couldn't find a dyno chart for torque vs rpm so just went off their recommendation of aiming between 8900-9100 RPM. Then just did what we talked about, added tip weight to get roughly 9000 RPM, then mid weight to maintain 9000 RPM.

 

[Tuesday]

So is 60+mph achievable boy's, all season i saw speed's exceeding the 60 mark, common numbers seen were 64-65mph.
We are now seeing other rider's achieving similar number's. THAT'S AWESOME.
The Side Winder is an animal in stock form, no doubt about that.
Now how about the powerup guy's, not much feed back, last i heard they are struggling for the 60 mark.

Stage 4 evo with CAI, black orange dalton in secondary 6-1, 64.5g will pull 9-9100 rpms at 6500ft. In deep revy snow cant break 60mph. The more weight I add it just drops the rpms and makes it feel more sluggish to spool up but does not gain any track speed. The most weight I put in was 66.5g would pull around 8800. I would say my typically track speed in deep snow on a steeper hill is 57mph. This is pulling 16.4 lbs of boost. Now with this clutching set up the sled is very responsive and fun to ride off and on the throttle. Pretty sure I would have to be some sort of hard pack set up to get higher numbers. The sled to me has to be fun to ride for the type of riding I do. Getting max track speed and having a lake racer or maybe dedicated chute climber is not really my thing. There were posts of the bigger mcx kit 300+ only making 60mph track speed. Would be really interested to see what these sleds ride like that are getting these higher track speeds. I am not doubting it but just skeptical. Are you guys messing with gearing as well? There are things that just dont seem to add up. I know when I ran my sled stock it pulled around 14.4 lbs boost up top but never really followed track speeds then as I only rode it stock 1 trip

 

[06 Dragon]

So what is the verdict on the best clutching set up
on a stock ( CAI plus CR racing resonator ) 2018 with the stock 163 x 3” track for riding in the Revy area.

 

[kanedog]

I wonder if the 65-72mph track speed comes from the speedo recall. If so, the info is not reliable. Most people can’t watch the speedo on a two stroke, much less a 250hp arm stretching Yami turbo.

 

[06 Dragon]

Anyone run the Turbo Dynamics clutch kit? they have a few options using dalton weights going as high as 77 grams.

 

[gibsons]

How many miles are this sidewinder engines good for?

 

[skegpro]

How many miles are this sidewinder engines good for?

If you use yamalube they will warranty it for 100,000km

 

[MK4TDI]

Pretty quiet thread this season unfortunately...

Myself, I had a slow winter on the working front so I was able to ride around 800 miles so far this season on the Sidewinder annnd it was great.

I was able to track down a full set of Fox Float QS3's which made a world of difference once I got them dialed in. That lockout shock is an awesome option to have.

For riding out west I went with Lunds recommendations on the 8LR yam weight loaded to 73grams. Was very consistent higher up in elevation, but I did manage to hit the rev limiter a couple times in the right circumstances at lower elevation in the trees.

58-62 MPH track speed was what I was seeing in the different snow conditions and temps. Sled is running CR intake and exhaust, stock tune and stock MTX gearing of 21/49 and the stock powerclaw 3" track.

Which brings me to my next issue that I'll need some insight on, the track. I must have tagged something under the snow on the last day we were out west. My track started coming apart on the way out of renshaw, first a strip on the inside, then a whole lug....

So the big question is... what track to go with.. options are somewhat limited for the 162x3 3.0 pitch from what I've been able to find.

So what does a guy get ?
Another powerclaw?
Epic 280 (9407M) ?
ChallengerX3 (9220M)?
ChallengerX 3.2 (9319M)?

Orrrr go to 3.5 pitch and try and get ahold of the 2.75 poo track ?

Do these single ply tracks last on the boosted 4 strokes ?

Thanks for any insight.

 

[MK4TDI]

For the guys that doo ride around home (3000 feet and below) I was able to make the 8LR weights work relatively well.

First off the 8LR at 73 grams they are a huge improvement over the stock MTX weights. Way less belt dust too, I was still hitting the rev limiter way too often.

I found a set of 8FS weights locally, loaded them to 80 grams using the yam rivets... and that was a no go, slammed the rev limiter at half throttle... alright out with those back to the 8LRs

I went and visited a few of my local suppliers and tracked down some different rivets to use instead of the yam ones. Found a few options that worked, metric rivets are a huge PITA to get so standard 1/4" it was.

In order to make the 1/4" rivets fit into the yam weights you will have to drill out the weight a 32nd to let the 1/4" rivet to slide through.

I was able to load up the 8LR to 78 grams using a rivet and a couple washers. This worked quite good. Would maybe hit the rev limiter maybe once per ride ride, other wise rpms are right around 8900-9000, so I think I'll get a longer rivet and shoot for 80 grams overall.

I'm not sure whether to add some weight to the middle to achieve this or to keep it all at the tip...

I did also try the 24/50 gearing with the 8LRs at 78grams at home... lost some track speed in 2' of snow full load,full cat walk. However that day when I tested the gearing I was getting the SD26 code anytime I held the throttle wide open for more than 4 seconds.

I spoke with my dealer about it and yamaha has a bulletin out for the recirculating vacuum line that goes from the recirc valve assembly to the air box. It is to be unhooked from the air box and let vent to atmosphere due to ice forming in that line.

So we did that, and dielectric greased all the connections by the ECU, tightened up all charge pipe clamps, and I did not have those code come on again in 6 days of mountain riding.

I did switch back to the 21/49 gearing before heading west...

What fun that chaincase is with the damn engine oil tank being part of the cover

 

[MK4TDI]

One issue I have been having is the Pimary rollers, the bushing keeps pushing itself out of the roller. First it was just the one, I pressed the bushing back in once, was good after that ride, and back to the same after the second. Pushed it back in again a second time and it only made half the ride before it moved again. Replaced that one and went to the hills.

Halfway through the trip, another one started pushing it's way out, so changed that one out and everything was good for the rest of the trip.

One thing consistent is that bushing is sliding out in the direction of engine rotation.

Soo what's the fix for this little headache ??

 

[Pistonbroke]

Thank you guys for all the great posts. I'm just running through mine right now as we're calling it a season. We didn't get in the normal number of ride days but was good for what it was.

My sled is all stock tune, clutching and gearing, just over 3000 kms on it. Pulls like a G-D freight train.

Mods done:
-update to 2018+ intake mesh extra panels beside steering post
-CR Resonator pipe (with muff pot yo!)

I would like to play with a clutch setup this year and looking for advice. Unless traction is decent, I can get the sled on the rev limiter. We ride mostly trees and play areas, and do like to climb but it's smaller part of our typical day.

What do you guys think for weights, springs, etc.? I am going to replace primary rollers as they don't sound great, what else should I do while in there?

Cheers guys

 

[Andrew.renegade1000]

Thank you guys for all the great posts. I'm just running through mine right now as we're calling it a season. We didn't get in the normal number of ride days but was good for what it was.

My sled is all stock tune, clutching and gearing, just over 3000 kms on it. Pulls like a G-D freight train.

Mods done:
-update to 2018+ intake mesh extra panels beside steering post
-CR Resonator pipe (with muff pot yo!)

I would like to play with a clutch setup this year and looking for advice. Unless traction is decent, I can get the sled on the rev limiter. We ride mostly trees and play areas, and do like to climb but it's smaller part of our typical day.

What do you guys think for weights, springs, etc.? I am going to replace primary rollers as they don't sound great, what else should I do while in there?

Cheers guys

I am running my clutching as per (LUND)’s recommendations on here.

Stock primary spring,
8LR00 weights loaded up to 73g
Stock secondary spring set at 3-3 60 degrees


My sled pulls hard dam near perfect rpms in the deep stuff.

I lined up against another sidewinder that the guy said had a hurricane 240 tune
And he had some lightweight parts aswell (seat, battery, ect) And I smoked him. I was on the wall about tuning my sled but it flat out pulls hard seeing 58-64mph while climbing and it doesn’t stop!

Give that clutching setup a try see how you like it .

Engagement drops from 4100 stock to 3100 when you set the secondary spring at 3-3 60 degrees

 

[8000 ProClimb]

I have an 18' MTX Winder with a 162 stock track. I have a TD Powertrail tune that is suppose to be 160+ Hp. It runs 17lbs boost consistently. I have tried stock weights and springs, dalton weights and springs, 8DN belts and XS825 belts and it pulls hard but BLOWS belts like crazy. I have aligned and ground 2.5 mils off the secondary to hit Yamahas 58 mil off set spec. and still blows a belt every 125 miles. I recently ground another 1 mil off my secondary, modded the secondary so it now floats on the shaft and runs where it wants to, installed a 41/35 helix with a Black/Orange Dalton secondary spring wrapped 6 and 1, 8BU-OO weights weighted to 62.4 Grams with a stock yamaha White/Silver/White primary spring, have stock rollers in primary and secondary (have had NO issues with flat spots on either) I have stock gears, I added cold air venting to the clutches, I have a muffled 2.5 homemade exhaust and a cold air intake. My sled now engages at about 2900, shift out is 8700 (TD said to have an 8900-9000 shift out which is too high, the higher RPM you spin the primary the more efficiency you loose. My clutches now run much cooler after back to back to back pulls, my throttle response is faster as the mass of this set up is 12.4 grams lighter per weight than the Daltons that were 74.8 grams each spinning at 8900-9000. Sled spools faster, has better engine breaking down hill and at 6000' in powder on a good pull will hit 70 Mph track speed and still pulling but ran out hill and or talent. (Not into big long hills, was buried in an avy years ago, not my thing any more) I took my elevate kit off my 18' Cat and put it on my winder and if I leave the shocks on 1 it does want to flip over on the steeper stuff, but when I set the back shock on Lock Out it pulls the skis about 2' high and holds it there. F%#K does it build MPH in a short distance.

After reading ever thing I could about these Winders and how to fix belts blowers, nothing seemed to work that I tried until now as far as belt heat goes. Guess we'll see how long it goes before it blows a belt.................