For Side Winder rider's

[Lund]

Well i'm done testing weights and playing with clutching for the stock tune Winder and have come to a final conclusion for atleast my style of riding and here are the latest track speeds recorded for the day. Snow still very deep 2ft minimum but starting to settle getting more dense.
The sled pulled solid all day long and pretty much everything you pointed at that allowed for it we saw 63-64mph. In some cases the hookup was intense enough to almost flip out the sled. Crazy for a stock sled.
We tried a number of different weight combination's and like i said at the beginning the MTX 55.5g weight's are suitable for 8,000ft and up but for BC playgrounds its too light.
You want big track speed of 60+mph on climbs, this is what your going to need.


73gram weight with a more aggressive profile and a minor secondary adjustment. Simple.
There are no need to do big changes like i have read on TY and some on here. Springs, steeper or multi angle helix, on and on it goes, just to confuse and never really achieve real world results. Yamaha has done a great job calibrating these sled's and all you need to do is set them up for the proper elevation you play in and your style of riding you do.
If you go this route you will need to setup the secondary to 3-3 and a 60deg preload to help back shift.
This profile is more aggressive then the MTX profile, so if your a tree rider or like deep pow curves at low speeds this might not work for you. If your looking for it to hit hard and get on top of the snow quick for a fast track speed and hard climbing pull's, this will do it. It is very hard to setup for both ends of the spectrum, there will be a sacrifice at one or the other end. Personal preference is what it boils down to.
Good luck, have fun doing it.

BTW, this setup will spank any stock SW on a climb in speed and climbing capabilities. In fact from what i have read on here will give some powerup Winders a run for it.

 

[Catrider16]

I was out with Lund the last couple of day's, the Sidewinder is insane. I don't really know why anyone would do a power up on one of these. I had a few chances to ride it and I really like my 18 Acsender, but there is something that is very addictive about these Sidewinders. Something I just don't get out of my sled, yes its heavier but I just don't like giving it back, the truth. It makes you feel like there is no mountain's you can't conquer the power dominance is unbelievable compared to my 800 Cat, its not even close.

 

[06yamahaapex]

So the regular mtx guys will need to buy new primary weights (8LR00) and a gold red gold primary spring in order to match your results.

 

[Lund]

I was out with Lund the last couple of day's, the Sidewinder is insane. I don't really know why anyone would do a power up on one of these. I had a few chances to ride it and I really like my 18 Acsender, but there is something that is very addictive about these Sidewinders. Something I just don't get out of my sled, yes its heavier but I just don't like giving it back, the truth. It makes you feel like there is no mountain's you can't conquer the power dominance is unbelievable compared to my 800 Cat, its not even close.

Haha, i kinda figured when you kept a distance from me you were having a blast LOL.
To be honest bud i love riding the Acsender and when i got home yesterday i said to KB maybe it's time to go back to 2 stroke LOL. She looked at me and said "what do you mean and it sound's expensive".
Really, i think a Boondocker Sidekick mounted to your sled would be a Cat's meow, one i'ed certainly entertain.

 

[Catrider16]

Haha, i kinda figured when you kept a distance from me you were having a blast LOL.
To be honest bud i love riding the Acsender and when i got home yesterday i said to KB maybe it's time to go back to 2 stroke LOL. She looked at me and said "what do you mean and it sound's expensive".
Really, i think a Boondocker Sidekick mounted to your sled would be a Cat's meow, one i'ed certainly entertain.

I thought you were out riding today with your buddies from Alberta, didn't happen?

 

[Lund]

I thought you were out riding today with your buddies from Alberta, didn't happen?

Change of plan's for me, originally yes there was going to be three of us but then unknowingly to me a crowd decided to join i was told. I never was one to like riding in big groups, 3-4 max anymore and rides become stale after a while of pissing around waiting gumby. Plus a few in this group are not well rounded in riding, they strictly bushwack with no interest in anything else. Same type of guys that are only interested in doing climbs and chutes, all they do is go from one hill to the next. I have no interest in the one style riding thing. So decided to get ready for next week's 4 day run with KB. Revy, Sicamous, Enderby..in what ever order. LOL...you should come.

 

[Xmrider163]

Heading to Revy riding Wed, Thurs, Fri Lund if your around. Do a bit of mixed riding since the groups mixed.

 

[Catrider16]

Change of plan's for me, originally yes there was going to be three of us but then unknowingly to me a crowd decided to join i was told. I never was one to like riding in big groups, 3-4 max anymore and rides become stale after a while of pissing around waiting gumby. Plus a few in this group are not well rounded in riding, they strictly bushwack with no interest in anything else. Same type of guys that are only interested in doing climbs and chutes, all they do is go from one hill to the next. I have no interest in the one style riding thing. So decided to get ready for next week's 4 day run with KB. Revy, Sicamous, Enderby..in what ever order. LOL...you should come.

Well you know you can't play all the time. I have to be at CFB Wainwright Tuesday, then CFB Gagetown Thursday, then Friday in Petawawa, then home. I'll be wiped.

 

[Lund]

Heading to Revy riding Wed, Thurs, Fri Lund if your around. Do a bit of mixed riding since the groups mixed.

Sure sounds it could be a plan in the making.
Send me a pm once you figure your plans out and i will see if we can make it fit.

 

[Lund]

Well i have been riding here and there and getting the girl broken in. Doing some minor adjustments and minor changes, more custom parts on order to fit more my riding style.
I have not spent time watching the speedo on any of my climbs lately and i know the motor is no longer in break in mode. BUT today i did, even though the snow is so sick deep out there, i thought hey what is this SW doing with track speed in this sick stuff.
Making sure all is visible gauge wise, every big pulls i did i never saw the speed drop below 61mph, that was my slowest reading today over 2-3ft of fresh pow. Infact i was told i leave a bigger trench going down with the nose pushing into the snow then going up ...LOL

So yes boys the Sidewinder is a solid 60+mph track turner with stock tune, no question about it. Today was a good test day for this, extra deep and i took it steep, the average 63mph.

Now she going into my shop for its first major service and couple of minor changes on the suspension for my style.

 

[Tuesday]

hmmm interesting I need to do some testing with my evo 4 sled. Like canuck said pulling closer to the 9200 mark and around 16 psi. Think we are running 62 grams vs stock. Maybe we need to load up the tip more? right now our weight are empty.

 

[Lund]

hmmm interesting I need to do some testing with my evo 4 sled. Like canuck said pulling closer to the 9200 mark and around 16 psi. Think we are running 62 grams vs stock. Maybe we need to load up the tip more? right now our weight are empty.

Ya your turning too fast. Weigh it up more.
I'm also using a different profile on mine, didn't care for the high engagement of 4100 of the MTX weight, not needed for our elevation's, this motor makes plenty of torque to engage lower. Plus easier to play with at low speeds around the trees in the deep stuff.. Got her engaging around the 3000 mark.

 

[Lunch_Box]

hmmm interesting I need to do some testing with my evo 4 sled. Like canuck said pulling closer to the 9200 mark and around 16 psi. Think we are running 62 grams vs stock. Maybe we need to load up the tip more? right now our weight are empty.

I talked with Kyle at EVO and he said to aim for the 9000 mark. I plan on doing some playing with my weights next time im home to see what results I can get.

 

[Lund]

I talked with Kyle at EVO and he said to aim for the 9000 mark. I plan on doing some playing with my weights next time im home to see what results I can get.

I would get the dyno graph from EVO and use it as a tuning aid no matter what some guy said.

I have the MCX250hp setup and i don't know if EVO250hp number come out the same but the MCX makes MAX. 252hp at 9100rpm BUT the torque numbers go down and that is not a good thing for a mountain sled pulling a big track.
I always tune to get MAX torque and not HP. The sled will pull much harder hands down.
MCX250 kit at 9100rpm is 252hp @ 195ftlbs of torque at 15psi boost.
At 8800rpm is 250hp @ 198ftlbs of torque at 14psi boost.
The high lighted spec number set up will out pull the non high lighted set up, if you were to put them side by side pulling a hill.
Point is you need to setup your clutches to maximize your power or your really wasting any effort in the upgrade.

 

[Lunch_Box]

I would get the dyno graph from EVO and use it as a tuning aid no matter what some guy said.

I have the MCX250hp setup and i don't know if EVO250hp number come out the same but the MCX makes MAX. 252hp at 9100rpm BUT the torque numbers go down and that is not a good thing for a mountain sled pulling a big track.
I always tune to get MAX torque and not HP. The sled will pull much harder hands down.
MCX250 kit at 9100rpm is 252hp @ 195ftlbs of torque at 15psi boost.
At 8800rpm is 250hp @ 198ftlbs of torque at 14psi boost.
The high lighted spec number set up will out pull the non high lighted set up, if you were to put them side by side pulling a hill.
Point is you need to setup your clutches to maximize your power or your really wasting any effort in the upgrade.

Ill have to see if I can find a dyno chart. I will admit I am new to this clutch tuning thing, so learning as I go along. I bought the Thunder clutch kit with my tune (primary spring, secondary spring and weights) so far just made a small adjustment to the middle adding some weight.

 

[Chrisco]

I would get the dyno graph from EVO and use it as a tuning aid no matter what some guy said.

I have the MCX250hp setup and i don't know if EVO250hp number come out the same but the MCX makes MAX. 252hp at 9100rpm BUT the torque numbers go down and that is not a good thing for a mountain sled pulling a big track.
I always tune to get MAX torque and not HP. The sled will pull much harder hands down.
MCX250 kit at 9100rpm is 252hp @ 195ftlbs of torque at 15psi boost.
At 8800rpm is 250hp @ 198ftlbs of torque at 14psi boost.
The high lighted spec number set up will out pull the non high lighted set up, if you were to put them side by side pulling a hill.
Point is you need to setup your clutches to maximize your power or your really wasting any effort in the upgrade.

Great info in this post.

 

[Tuesday]

Ya your turning too fast. Weigh it up more.
I'm also using a different profile on mine, didn't care for the high engagement of 4100 of the MTX weight, not needed for our elevation's, this motor makes plenty of torque to engage lower. Plus easier to play with at low speeds around the trees in the deep stuff.. Got her engaging around the 3000 mark.

62 daltons unloaded. Maybe I will try some tip weight and possible a stronger secondary spring. Sled pulls hard but I think there is a pile left on the table with clutching and doesnt seem that it has been dialed in for us yet. I recall the nytros were pretty much dialed in after 1 year. I have a NS1 gauge so next trip I will do some datalogging and clutch changes and see whats up.
Thanks for the input.

 

[Catman10]

I have Lunds recommended weights coming and will be in Revy this weekend playing with my clutching and suspension a bit more, I will post results when I get back, hopefully I see close to the 60 mph mark like Lund cuz this sled will be a rocket!!!

 

[canuck5]

Here has been a few of my findings with the sidewinder the stock set up with 55.5g weights was ok but due to profile Lund is right it engages higher rpm and hits hard. I have now spent a ton of time on my Evo stage 4 and these are my findings initially went with dtya1 73.6 base weight was way to heavy @6500 feet would not even pull 8400rpm with tune, shaved them down to 66grams and they were still to heavy. So I went the other direction qay 62g base weight Evo has said to tune to 9250rpm this would spin the engine at 9400rpm 16psi at elevation and let it pull down a bit in really deep snow. However I did notice some belt slippage so I have gone to a stiffer secondary spring. As Lund has said it's hard to have the best of both worlds I have defiantly gone to more of a tree/Meadow rider in recent years so max track speed is less important than the quick engaging low gear feel I currently have. My thought is that heavier tip weight combined with weaker secondary will allow full shift and if engine can pull it you would get the higher track speeds but that's not for me. I felt significant power drop off when only pulling 9000rpm on my sled but I might now be battling a weaker bov which will be fixed soon enough.

 

[Lund]

Those results you got is what I would expect.
your 100% correct you can’t have both but if you want you can go in the middle and compromise.
Did you notice track speeds once you where satisfied.
And did you try a slightly tighter secondary spring setting.
I also wonder if your belt slippage is being caused by power lost(torque lost) from turning the motor so fast?