Kibbels
Active VIP Member
As I alluded I don’t know exact OD of them...
For Side Winder rider's
- Thread starter Lund
- Start date
As I alluded I don’t know exact OD of them...
- Thread starter
- #22
Lund
Active VIP Member
I would like people to post their track speed if they can and post it every time they notice it on a pull so we can get info gathered on what seems to work. Plus if they know there current setup it would be helpful.
As for guessing, 7 tooth is the only correct item. The ecu was reprogrammed to recognize 7 tooth.
Your guess on the secondary is very little partially correct, being it doesn't cost anything to try it, i will tell what we did there.
Same components used, so Yellow with 35deg cam. 3-3 60deg preload.
FYI, though the secondary setting could be changed if we find something better.
Everything else you mentioned is incorrect.
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Kibbels
Active VIP Member
Ok... I’m struggling with the 67.. actual I’m jealous lol. I’m amazed that much is found in clutching.
Catman10
Drinking the Doolaid
OK here it goes this is my combo exactly as it is set up right now with the 3 inch 174 track I have the stock weights in the primary which I have shaved an ounce and a half off each tip of the weight and I am pulling 88-8900 rpm most of the time. In my secondary I have left everything stock with the exception of tightening the spring up some as recommended by O'Js and I got the new harder rollers replaced by Yamaha under warranty. Gearing is stock, I believe 19/49 which is way too tall as I have had that big track rotating as high as 175 kms per hour racing my buddie on the trail so this sled needs to be geared down forsure. I have a baker set up in my rear skid which absolutely works amazing keeps the front and down gets the most track on the snow and absorbs bumps like nothing I have ever had before so i dont think i can improve the efficiency of the rear skid any more. I would like to know of a helix option as well as how much i should gear this down because I have geared too low before and that sucks because you loose all your speed. I hope to get my trackspeed up to 60 mph which I think is realistic, 67 would be crazy! What do you guys think?
06yamahaapex
Active VIP Member
any more helix and you will need lighter weight. A lot of guys on totally yamaha running the 33/35 helix. The stiffer springs seem to be adding too much heat according to totally yamaha.
- Thread starter
- #26
Lund
Active VIP Member
Your gearing will be 21/49, unless you changed it.
One mistake made was shaving the weights, especially off the tips. That is the key and where weight needs to be added on the MTX. 88-8900 is taking you out of your power curve and i'ed be willing to bet your dropping 15-20% of your power in that alone.
- Thread starter
- #27
Lund
Active VIP Member
So Catman
To get track speed you need to up shift, by shaving the tip you have now made your up shift worst.
Here are some basic weight rules. The base of your weight effects low end or lower 1/3 of the shift, the center of the weight effects midrange or middle 2/3 of the shift, while the tip of the weight effects the upper 1/3 of the shift. If you lighten that upper 1/3 you now reduce your ability to full shift effectively.
The three holes found on the Yamaha weights are for that purpose, you can custom add rivets of different weights that effect the shift.
Your MTX came with 3 already applied rivets, the tip one is too light for 5-6500ft to get full shift.
To get track speed you need to up shift, by shaving the tip you have now made your up shift worst.
Here are some basic weight rules. The base of your weight effects low end or lower 1/3 of the shift, the center of the weight effects midrange or middle 2/3 of the shift, while the tip of the weight effects the upper 1/3 of the shift. If you lighten that upper 1/3 you now reduce your ability to full shift effectively.
The three holes found on the Yamaha weights are for that purpose, you can custom add rivets of different weights that effect the shift.
Your MTX came with 3 already applied rivets, the tip one is too light for 5-6500ft to get full shift.
Big A
Active VIP Member
Not to start a pissing contest as I don’t own a sidewinder, yet, Strongly considering one for my next sled, but this whole 67mph thing doesn’t jive, not saying you don’t know what your doing Lund, or that at some point you didn’t see 67mph on your display, you built a nice sled and your clutching knowledge is top notch but you’ve got these guys chasing a number that in real climbing situations simply isn’t attainable with any less than 260hp. Maybe with all your changes your speedo is out or maybe you pulled a small hill in extremely loose snow, either way, it’s not a realistic number, sorry. I would be VERY surprised if a properly set up winder WITH a tune, pipe, etc spinning a 174 3” could be capable of breaking the magical 100kmh / 62mph mark. I wish you all the best of luck but if your stock sleds are spinning the 162 3” at 55+ mph, that’s very impressive, don’t be ashamed of that number. The claim of gaining 12mph or 22% track speed over stock with no tune while also spinning a 174 just doesn’t add up.
Catrider16
Active member
I was there when Lund ran this, i can tell you this. His Sidewinder was no 5-10mph faster then my Cat. I ran the hill at a constant 47-48mph and he would blow by me and run away like i was almost standing still. That Sidewinder absolutely rips, those number are true, you had to be there.
Obviously none of you have never met Lund and his Nytro cause you would remember, it was one of the fastest climber known with Yamaha Nytro riders out there.
These guys know their 4 strokes better then most.
Obviously none of you have never met Lund and his Nytro cause you would remember, it was one of the fastest climber known with Yamaha Nytro riders out there.
These guys know their 4 strokes better then most.
Catrider16
Active member
I'm pulling 47-48mph on my Cat, if these Sidewinder are only getting 54-55mph at best. That is only a 7mph difference for a 200hp sled, i think there are tuning issues going on cause 160hp vs 200hp should not see a 7mph difference.
If thats the case i'ed be selling the Winder for a lighter 2 stroke.
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dragonweld28
Supporting Vendor
All Last weekend I ran 44-45 MPH track speed and Catman ran 51-52 MPH track speed in deep snow. His sidewinder is way faster than my Axys and thats HONEST tracks speeds. I'm Sure 67 mph and be achieved on a climb if the snow isn't deep and his ground speed is high. 67 MPH isn't a true MPH track speed in deep snow.
I tell you what, Lund pretty much nailed Catman10 problem. The last weekend his sled was slower than previous trips. That tells me that Lund has a good idea what he’s talking about. I think this thread has great potential for you sidewinder guys. If you guys can see 60+ mph track speeds why would anybody run a tune? Paul’s sled is a beast at 55 mph I’m scared for him when he gets it doing 65 mph. For those that don’t believe move on.
Kibbels
Active VIP Member
I respect that... like I said I’m guessing. If you’re combo is working good on ya!
Chrisco
Active VIP Member
I told you it felt lazy Niner..... Paul changes **** and doesn't tell anyone lol. Like Lund said you need heavy tip weight to pull the belt down.... no tip weight no belt squeeze. I also felt back shift was slow so maybe someone can chime in on that.
06yamahaapex
Active VIP Member
What’s everyone running for primary weights?
Kibbels
Active VIP Member
I 100% agree you will get 60+... this is completely achievable! Being a owner of many Yamaha 4tokes over the years never say never! So much to learn with the new Yammee clutches and well this 998 beast!! This is far the most amazing stock sled ever IMO...
- Thread starter
- #37
Lund
Active VIP Member
Ok, this is some conclusion on the MTX 2017 model's. Some of this can apply to the 18's.
Yamaha has done a remarkable job setting up the clutches and gearing on these, honestly not much can be had in gains and no heat or belt issues.
The biggest issue is these are tuned for 8,000ft, basically done for areas like Colorado. In BC we don't ride those elevation's. The only calibration change i would recommend on all MTX is adding more tip weight onto the throw weights. If your finding your sled turning 88-8900rpm, which i suspect most of you are. Add another 1.5grams to the tip weight. 1gram equals about 100rpm. you need to drop your RPM's about 150. You need 8750rpm for that motor.
This on its own will gain you track speed simply because your motor will make better power and not go out of its power curve.
There is no need to do cam(helix) changes, spring changes and gear changes for a stock MTX, other then what i mentioned above.
I will post abit more here on clutching gearing when it comes to certain mods some have done on here.
Yamaha has done a remarkable job setting up the clutches and gearing on these, honestly not much can be had in gains and no heat or belt issues.
The biggest issue is these are tuned for 8,000ft, basically done for areas like Colorado. In BC we don't ride those elevation's. The only calibration change i would recommend on all MTX is adding more tip weight onto the throw weights. If your finding your sled turning 88-8900rpm, which i suspect most of you are. Add another 1.5grams to the tip weight. 1gram equals about 100rpm. you need to drop your RPM's about 150. You need 8750rpm for that motor.
This on its own will gain you track speed simply because your motor will make better power and not go out of its power curve.
There is no need to do cam(helix) changes, spring changes and gear changes for a stock MTX, other then what i mentioned above.
I will post abit more here on clutching gearing when it comes to certain mods some have done on here.
canuck5
Active VIP Member
So I need to add to this my sled is flashed stage 4 Evo cold air and free flow exhaust. Evo recommends 9250rpm and when I hit that or higher the sled pulls 16psi boost and absolutely hauls this is now set up on two sleds with same boost numbers I've got 2000km on it and honestly couldn't tell you track speed I will try to get it next ride. Last weekend in the heavy wet ultra deep my rpm dropped to 9000ish and boost to 14.5 I'm running 62gram daltons. I know it's not apples to apples because it's no longer stock but when I'm running 87-8800 I'm getting way less out of my sled.
- Thread starter
- #39
Lund
Active VIP Member
More
Guys running PIPE with stock tuning on 162. We found a gearing change was beneficial, improved track speed and climbing capability.
Gears tested, 24/50, you will need a different chain.
I currently don't recommend this gear setup for guys with 174. Though i now have a set that i will be installing in mine before the power up kit is installed to test with the 174. I will run these and let you know on the results.
24/50, will be the gears i will be running with the MCX 250 power up.
Guys running PIPE with stock tuning on 162. We found a gearing change was beneficial, improved track speed and climbing capability.
Gears tested, 24/50, you will need a different chain.
I currently don't recommend this gear setup for guys with 174. Though i now have a set that i will be installing in mine before the power up kit is installed to test with the 174. I will run these and let you know on the results.
24/50, will be the gears i will be running with the MCX 250 power up.
- Thread starter
- #40
Lund
Active VIP Member
Yes your sled doesn't apply to this, once my MCX kit is installed all this is out the window for me too.
I always tune my sled to work 100% or as close as possible to 100% in stock form first before going on the bandwagon of more power. It makes things easier knowing all was good before hand.
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