Jasper is on fire!

[rknight111]

on the news they are saying the damage/insurance assessments are only going to take 2 days ron LOL!

We have completed about 19, we have at least 140 remaining. We are only conducting inspections on Hotels, Restaurants, Staff Lodging, Grocery Stores. At this time no houses. We anticipate we will be completed our initial assessments by mid September followed by continuous rigorous inspections. The town is not ready for this, I am leaving Saturday right after an inspection for someone I know, otherwise I want out of here till Monday. My one guy was at JPL all day and there is a lot of work there. Buildings and grocery stores I been at the last few days wont be open for weeks. Most still have large trees laying on damaged structures.

 

[smokinD]

We have completed about 19, we have at least 140 remaining. We are only conducting inspections on Hotels, Restaurants, Staff Lodging, Grocery Stores. At this time no houses. We anticipate we will be completed our initial assessments by mid September followed by continuous rigorous inspections. The town is not ready for this, I am leaving Saturday right after an inspection for someone I know, otherwise I want out of here till Monday. My one guy was at JPL all day and there is a lot of work there. Buildings and grocery stores I been at the last few days wont be open for weeks. Most still have large trees laying on damaged structures.

They are estimating only 250 million in damage structurly wise, is what insurance/radio are yammering.

 

[Bnorth]

i understand why so many people think that. I used too aswell. But the plane is 80 years old and just like any piece of equipment there is a point in its life cycle where it just doesn't make sense. Its capacity is unmatched, But the plane is slow, Not maneuverable, and underpowered. Its also extremely limited on its capability as it can only land on water. So it cant refill at an airstrip, cant get retardant etc, and pretty much has to be near a fairly large body of water as its takeoff roll isnt exactly short. The money is better of spent on multiple more modern tankers that can deliver much better cycle times and be more diverse in their capabilities. Some of coulsons CH44s Helis for example are delivering very large pay loads and very quick cycle times. The Herc is also a good replacement, CL215 etc. The air tractor fleet is also pretty impressive. 4-6 of those can do some damage on a fire and use very small bodies of water.

So tell me why they would spend all this money to retire this plane instead of using the funds to upgrade it and utilize it?
Probably built better then the ones manufactured these days.

It's so old that it takes something like 2 hours of maintenance for every hour of flight time.

I suspect that Coulson's rates are way higher than Conair's is why BC doesn't use them and instead they go to California and Australia who will pay the bill.

 

[greenthumb]

i understand why so many people think that. I used too aswell. But the plane is 80 years old and just like any piece of equipment there is a point in its life cycle where it just doesn't make sense. Its capacity is unmatched, But the plane is slow, Not maneuverable, and underpowered. Its also extremely limited on its capability as it can only land on water. So it cant refill at an airstrip, cant get retardant etc, and pretty much has to be near a fairly large body of water as its takeoff roll isnt exactly short. The money is better of spent on multiple more modern tankers that can deliver much better cycle times and be more diverse in their capabilities.

This is absolutely the case here. This plane was made famous by the notorious Kelowna fire of 2003. It was a textbook scenario for that aircraft. However, if you look into it, there are very limited situations where it makes sense. While it did cary the largest single drop payload, its GPH delivered is typically less compared to groups of smaller scoopers due to its slow speed and limited bodies of water it can land on. Firefighting contracts are very lucrative, and the gov't is accountable for its spending.
To quote a 2017 news article:
"The B.C. government calculates the per hour cost of the Mars bomber at $40,000 per day on standby, and $10,000 per hour in flying time. The “Fire Boss” aircrafts come at a cost of $8,400 for all four aircrafts in air at once. The cost of fuel per hour for all four Fire Bosses combined is less than half the cost of fuel per hour for the single Martin Mars."
It's privately owned and hasn't been active for years. That's a choice made by Coulson, not the gov't. If it was such a valuable and cost effective tool, don't you think they would have it working on the dozens of contracts they have all over the world?

I went and watched it fly buy my area, it's a shame, the government won't hire it because they say it's to big and old but man can it put out fires . There's something goin on between Colsens ( owners) and the government, they have a ton of fire fighting planes but they all end up down south because our government won't hire them for some reason. I think it's because Colsens called them out publicly a few times on the way the handle things and got black listed.

Keep in mind, Coulson is an international company. While their roots may be in BC, almost their entire fleet is registered and operates out of the US or Australia. They don't end up down there, rather they are from there.

As far as something going on between them and the gov't, I completely agree. I'm not sure the exact reason, but It's very obvious that Coulson leans into their public popularity and garner sympathy through their PR. Last summer was a perfect example. They landed one of their American Chinooks in the Okanagan and made the news. They made it sound like it was done out of the goodness of their heart. Reality is, it had 25 hours left on the clock before a months long overhaul on the island. They were literally flying through anyway and was trying to pick up some work along the way. Keep in mind, this thing bills out at around $250k per day.
Ironically, I tried to hire that exact machine for a construction job while it was sitting there idle when this occurred. I got the total runaround by them and it didn't happen.

 

[Scrambled]

Ya I've done work for them and there definitely not easy to deal with. Always pay though which is nice. Personally I think they should build newr version of them bombers, even just for soaking down the forest around towns when fire is getting near, I've been on the ground when they dump and it soakes everything good so keep the forest wet around cumunities and let the little aircraft tackle the fire. Just my opinion though.

 

[greenthumb]

Personally I think they should build newr version of them bombers

The answer is the Canadair CL-415. Canadian made, modern, versatile, high performance and has a very good reputation. Several provinces have them already. Why BC, Alberta or the federal gov't hasn't jumped on the bandwagon and buy some is beyond me. How about we use some of that carbon tax money.
As much as you guys love the CBC, this article pretty much sums it up.

 

[rknight111]

They are estimating only 250 million in damage structurly wise, is what insurance/radio are yammering.

Who the media?

That is way off after what I been seeing alone. Today I was at an extensively damaged apartment complex, then the neighboring building had burnt to the ground. Then we have 2 large apartment buildings across the street. Probably 15 million right there on that street, as far as I can see to the east for about 3 km is total destruction, just holes filled with debris, then buildings with the roofs burnt off. Vehicles burnt so bad all you seen is some tire belts and a pile of meted metal. Stores have to throw out all the food and several of there meat racks, the esso station is a crater with a pile of debris. Every structure we looked at has char and ash particulate identified and they all require cleaning, thousands of rooms and areas. My estimation will be at 1.2 billion and im probably light. .

 

[snopro]

Who the media?

That is way off after what I been seeing alone. Today I was at an extensively damaged apartment complex, then the neighboring building had burnt to the ground. Then we have 2 large apartment buildings across the street. Probably 15 million right there on that street, as far as I can see to the east for about 3 km is total destruction, just holes filled with debris, then buildings with the roofs burnt off. Vehicles burnt so bad all you seen is some tire belts and a pile of meted metal. Stores have to throw out all the food and several of there meat racks, the esso station is a crater with a pile of debris. Every structure we looked at has char and ash particulate identified and they all require cleaning, thousands of rooms and areas. My estimation will be at 1.2 billion and im probably light. .

The federal govt probably estimated that. They said that the May 2020 gun grab would cost $125 million. Estimates sit now at $1.2 billion. And of course the $60,000 Arrive Scam App. We all know how that turned out as well.

 

[ABMax24]

Who the media?

That is way off after what I been seeing alone. Today I was at an extensively damaged apartment complex, then the neighboring building had burnt to the ground. Then we have 2 large apartment buildings across the street. Probably 15 million right there on that street, as far as I can see to the east for about 3 km is total destruction, just holes filled with debris, then buildings with the roofs burnt off. Vehicles burnt so bad all you seen is some tire belts and a pile of meted metal. Stores have to throw out all the food and several of there meat racks, the esso station is a crater with a pile of debris. Every structure we looked at has char and ash particulate identified and they all require cleaning, thousands of rooms and areas. My estimation will be at 1.2 billion and im probably light. .

And that doesn't include lost tourist revenues, for this year and at least a couple more to come before the town is rebuilt. Not to mention losses for the next 25 years because no one wants to come and see a burnt out wasteland.

Insurance rates are going to see a jump again for next year, between this and another Calgary hailstorm.

 

[2kDoo]

im actually looking forward to marmot basin being empty during the winter. Might be the best thing that happened to get more pow days, sadly

 

[niner]

Are the houses with blue roofs ok? Asking for a friend…

 

[maxwell]

last estimate was 286 million and like mentioned that does not include the lost tax revenue to the town or tourist aspect.

im not a mathematician but for 286 million i think they could have called in a few more ( zero used ) bomber reinforcements, maybe paid a bit of a premium, maybe swollowed their ego and allowed retardant, and it would have spared the hardships.

 

[Caper11]

Drove through Jasper today, it was sure nice not to have tourists stopping to take photos along the highway.
It was awful nice having the speed limit reduced to 50 so lots of rubber necking can be accomplished. Didn’t see one plane on that fire on the other side of the river. They must be letting it burn.

 

[rknight111]

Drove through Jasper today, it was sure nice not to have tourists stopping to take photos along the highway.
It was awful nice having the speed limit reduced to 50 so lots of rubber necking can be accomplished. Didn’t see one plane on that fire on the other side of the river. They must be letting it burn.

Talked with fire fighters today, there are letting it burn. Some pretty big flares there. Was in the hotspot in jasper all day, there was many atco electric vehicles and workers. All the powerpoles are burt on the southwest side of jasper and there is no power.

 

[LUCKY 7]

Talked with fire fighters today, there are letting it burn. Some pretty big flares there. Was in the hotspot in jasper all day, there was many atco electric vehicles and workers. All the powerpoles are burt on the southwest side of jasper and there is no power.

Thanks for all the updates. I enjoy reading all of them. The media is usually all incorrect information and to have a S&M member actually there and involved is a good thing.

 

[Chump]

Thanks for all the updates. I enjoy reading all of them. The media is usually all incorrect information and to have a S&M member actually there and involved is a good thing.

Definitely way more trust worthy then our media or government who have a clear agenda at play.
I appreciate the updates!

 

[arff]

The red is the burnt areas

 

[MP Kid]

im actually looking forward to marmot basin being empty during the winter. Might be the best thing that happened to get more pow days, sadly

If it burnt… Will it even reopen?

 

[BILTIT]

Sure gives Trumps "Fake news" line a lot more weight (PS. orange man bad lol).

Thanks for all the updates. I enjoy reading all of them. The media is usually all incorrect information and to have a S&M member actually there and involved is a good thing

 

[maxwell]

If it burnt… Will it even reopen?

marmot was untouched