FALLOUT: Avalanche-Turbo March 13,2010

[Red Mtn Riders]

I'm with longhorn on this one.... as much as I've tried to find fault in red's posts due to the presentation I can not discount the facts he provides...
I am NOT avy trained, only ever been to the mountains once and that was with riders who were trained. Even without avy training I look at the pictures of the slide and can't help but ask myself WTF was everyone doing there.

The presentation may be harsh but you can't argue the facts presented.

The thing is, I ride lots of really extreme terrain. Most guys wont even go to the places a very few of us ride. On days like the one in question though, I would still have ridden, just adjusted where and what. I sure as heckfire wouldn't be doing ANY high marking. I had an avy class instructor once tell me that the biggest single thing you can do to stay safe is to keep your options open. If it doesn't seem safe, go somewhere that is.

There are a ton of things you can do on a sled that are safe and fun. We all take chances at times, but I can't remember ever taking a chance as big as the one taken on Turbo that day. That may be why I have never, in ten years of backcountry riding, ever had to dig someone out.

 

[pano-dude]

actually, most, if not all, the people were already found before SAR got there. if they hadn't been, the fatalities would have been much higher. not saying that SAR didn't do a great job, but so did the people on site. also, the whole avy warnings is bothering me. has anyone here ever ridden in BC and not had the warnings be at least consireable or high even. i've never been to golden or revy with anything less than considerable, but usually it's high. and i've ridden most of the areas in all different conditions and times of year. it just seems to me that the avy risk is ALWAYS elevated, not just on this particular weekend, but pretty all of them

The ratings are one aspect of the report and it is pretty general, what people need to pay special notice to are the snow pack comments. This is where the real info is.

 

[buck50]

I think the BIS got a bunch of guys all riled up to put down some big marks on the hill. They were not thinking very rationally and some people died. Some avy deaths are truely accidents. More and more, the ones I read about display serious errors in judgement by the parties involved.

.

this was not part of the BIS, just to clarify! most of your comments are correct, but you sir need some TACT! good messages will be LOST if you pizz off the people your trying to educate

 

[bigdawg]

Well Ive been sitting back and watching and reading all about this whole deal. I for one did check the conditions for last weekend a decided to stay away from backcounrty riding due to the Avy conditions. As a active backcounrty rider for many yrs now have watched this unfold every year and its the same thing NO one is to Blame BUT everyone is to blame......Everyone who pays at the booth for your trail pass is entering the unKnown we check updates we dig pits we do test runs with a beacon BUT the bottom line is that we just don't know what will unfold that day so you ride safe and smart....(my wife and Kids allow me to do the sport the least I can do is make sure I use common sense to return home safe) and leave your hero stuff in the parking lot when Conditions are extreme. Last weekend was a tragic mishap BUT weather the BIS was there or not the hill would have slide because peeps would have poked at it and down it comes.....So I dont think the BIS or its organizer is at falt......How many other avys let go last weekend that no has metioned?? Two weeks ago we where out and set off 2 slides no one hurt or buried did it make the new??NO so why this?? everyone one who owns and rides a mountain sled knows the risks, Knows that there could be a tragic day,BUT we still go and do it why beacuase some of use have a passion and then there are people like me who its an addiction....but we as sledders have to stand together and educate ourselfs and our riding partners Because you or them are putting each others lives the those hands...I personal feel that I have to protect myself by any means and if that means not going riding or staying off the slopes then so be it.

I think that the People that where there and helped out after the Avy are the true hero's as they come together and did what was needed to do to get everyone out safe......thats a true sledder.

 

[Going West]

Yes when you look at the pics of the aftermath it seems very obvious, but if you know the area, it does not look the same from the ground. The spot where everyone was parked looks to be the end of the run, and is where most people always park to watch.

No they should not have been their, and no they shouldn't have been pulling that hill. But I can see why some would think they were safe parking there. And I think that the pack mentality was a major contributor. Its humane nature to join a group and feel safe.

Their are many things that can be learned form the event with out attacking the victims. They have already accepted responsibility for their own actions, I don't see the point of further attacks. No one has said they were in the right so why point more fingers.

We were on the mountain that week and choose to avoid the large open slopes, but just cause we made the correct choice it does not give me the right to criticize those who were hurt.

 

[themoresnowthebetter]

Extremely mind-boggling

By Roy Clancy, Calgary Sun

Last Updated: March 16, 2010 10:41pm

There are a lot of responsible snowmobilers out there who are wincing today.

When a mountain of snow came down on 200 snowmobilers in the B.C. backcountry, so apparently did the impatience of authorities for the self-destructive antics of a minority of the sport’s enthusiasts.

If their numbers are small, the impact they’re making on the public’s perception of sledding is anything but.

Two men died in the slide and 31 were injured.

That’s prompted a lot of public reaction to the tragedy, some of it fair and some not.

After 19 snowmobilers died in the backcountry last year, the B.C. government has apparently had enough.

It didn’t take long for B.C. Solicitor General Kash Heed to announce new regulations for snowmobilers will come into effect next year.

Federal Environment Minister Jim Prentice is also getting into the act. He’ll make an announcement on avalanche safety and awareness today.

The associations representing the organized side of the sport have made a reasonable case that there’s a need for better education, rather than restrictive regulations.

Sadly, their efforts are undermined by the revealing and unwittingly mind-boggling comments of some snowmobilers in response to what went on in Turbo Bowl, where souped-up machines were “high-marking” — attempting to climb as far up the slope as possible.

Instead of acknowledging the series of events that day was a recipe for disaster, some appear to suggest this kind of risk is what makes the sport so thrilling for extreme sledders.

Al Hodgson, president of the Association of B.C. Snowmobile Clubs, wasn’t so thrilled. “I was mortified,” he said about learning the Big Iron Shootout had gone ahead despite the conditions.

“To have multiple people high-marking after 80 cm of snow with the base in the condition it was, I mean it breaks every single rule about avalanche safety,” he told the Canadian Press.

What’s even more perplexing is that at least some of the riders on the mountain that day didn’t even seem to be aware of those rules. By their own admission, they didn’t realize the degree of avalanche danger to which they were exposing themselves.

Or worse, ignored it.

To their credit, the quick work of those who weren’t buried and the safety gear they were packing saved lives that day. That speaks to a level of avalanche training which makes this tragedy all the more difficult to understand.

While many of the people on the mountain were ready to carry out a rescue, they weren’t prepared.

According to a pamphlet put out by the Canadian Avalanche Centre, (CAC) the most basic preparations include selecting a route based on the current avalanche bulletin for the area, and choosing a group that has respect for mountain hazards.

And importantly, “be prepared to turn around if you or anyone in your party has concerns about the route or conditions.”

I picked that pamphlet and other avalanche info up at the CAC office during a recent visit to Revelstoke, when the centre was commemorating the 100th anniversary of a slide that killed 58 railway workers in Rogers Pass. That tragedy set the stage for research and bulletins that have saved countless lives.

In fact, CAC warnings likely kept hundreds of snowmobilers from attending the backcountry event that ended in tragedy on the weekend

Still, it must be frustrating for them that some people are venturing into extremely dangerous conditions without checking their bulletins — or ignoring them.

That’s the alpine version of Russian Roulette.

There’s been a renewed call for more education.

This deadly incident will certainly raise awareness, but at a terrible cost.

It would be ironic if those who scream the loudest for the freedom to get their kicks by taking uneducated risks wind up being the impetus for restrictions that could eventually impact everyone who ventures into the backcountry.

roy.clancy@sunmedia.ca

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

This is a place to put your thoughts about the conditions, the event, snowmobiles etc....however there are some rules.

1. No swearing.
2. No personal attacks/slander/threats etc.
3. If your commenting try and have your facts right.
4. If you comment then you must accept that others will want to respond to that comment.
5. Try not to take those comments as a personal attack.
6. Remember that not all sledders agree/disagree with riding in the mountains when the risk is elevated, please attempt not to put all Alberta and British Columbia sledders into one group.
   • No attacking the Moderators for "doing their job"

Those who deviate from the above list may find their posts deleted or we may have to ban you.

*** Comments made on this thread or site do not reflect the views the Moderators or of snowandmud.com ***

 

[Summiteer]

I'd have trouble arguing with most of what is in this column

Extremely mind-boggling

By Roy Clancy, Calgary Sun

Last Updated: March 16, 2010 10:41pm

There are a lot of responsible snowmobilers out there who are wincing today.

When a mountain of snow came down on 200 snowmobilers in the B.C. backcountry, so apparently did the impatience of authorities for the self-destructive antics of a minority of the sport’s enthusiasts.

If their numbers are small, the impact they’re making on the public’s perception of sledding is anything but.

Two men died in the slide and 31 were injured.

That’s prompted a lot of public reaction to the tragedy, some of it fair and some not.

After 19 snowmobilers died in the backcountry last year, the B.C. government has apparently had enough.

It didn’t take long for B.C. Solicitor General Kash Heed to announce new regulations for snowmobilers will come into effect next year.

Federal Environment Minister Jim Prentice is also getting into the act. He’ll make an announcement on avalanche safety and awareness today.

The associations representing the organized side of the sport have made a reasonable case that there’s a need for better education, rather than restrictive regulations.

Sadly, their efforts are undermined by the revealing and unwittingly mind-boggling comments of some snowmobilers in response to what went on in Turbo Bowl, where souped-up machines were “high-marking” — attempting to climb as far up the slope as possible.

Instead of acknowledging the series of events that day was a recipe for disaster, some appear to suggest this kind of risk is what makes the sport so thrilling for extreme sledders.

Al Hodgson, president of the Association of B.C. Snowmobile Clubs, wasn’t so thrilled. “I was mortified,” he said about learning the Big Iron Shootout had gone ahead despite the conditions.

“To have multiple people high-marking after 80 cm of snow with the base in the condition it was, I mean it breaks every single rule about avalanche safety,” he told the Canadian Press.

What’s even more perplexing is that at least some of the riders on the mountain that day didn’t even seem to be aware of those rules. By their own admission, they didn’t realize the degree of avalanche danger to which they were exposing themselves.

Or worse, ignored it.

To their credit, the quick work of those who weren’t buried and the safety gear they were packing saved lives that day. That speaks to a level of avalanche training which makes this tragedy all the more difficult to understand.

While many of the people on the mountain were ready to carry out a rescue, they weren’t prepared.

According to a pamphlet put out by the Canadian Avalanche Centre, (CAC) the most basic preparations include selecting a route based on the current avalanche bulletin for the area, and choosing a group that has respect for mountain hazards.

And importantly, “be prepared to turn around if you or anyone in your party has concerns about the route or conditions.”

I picked that pamphlet and other avalanche info up at the CAC office during a recent visit to Revelstoke, when the centre was commemorating the 100th anniversary of a slide that killed 58 railway workers in Rogers Pass. That tragedy set the stage for research and bulletins that have saved countless lives.

In fact, CAC warnings likely kept hundreds of snowmobilers from attending the backcountry event that ended in tragedy on the weekend

Still, it must be frustrating for them that some people are venturing into extremely dangerous conditions without checking their bulletins — or ignoring them.

That’s the alpine version of Russian Roulette.

There’s been a renewed call for more education.

This deadly incident will certainly raise awareness, but at a terrible cost.

It would be ironic if those who scream the loudest for the freedom to get their kicks by taking uneducated risks wind up being the impetus for restrictions that could eventually impact everyone who ventures into the backcountry.

roy.clancy@sunmedia.ca

 

[Longhorn]

i'd have trouble arguing with most of what is in this column

x2....

 

[Red Mtn Riders]

this was not part of the BIS, just to clarify! most of your comments are correct, but you sir need some TACT! good messages will be LOST if you pizz off the people your trying to educate

I never said it was, try to pay attention.

Please excuse yourself from reading my posts if you do not care for my level of tact. I really do not care what you think.

It is quite clear that my message made it out sans the tact you seem to think I need, so spare me your opinion.

 

[buck50]

I never said it was, try to pay attention.

Please excuse yourself from reading my posts if you do not care for my level of tact. I really do not care what you think.

It is quite clear that my message made it out sans the tact you seem to think I need, so spare me your opinion.

well, i guees if you have no need for others opinions, i have no need for yours either. pretty simple really

 

[Red Mtn Riders]

well, i guees if you have no need for others opinions, i have no need for yours either. pretty simple really

Works for me

 

[rocnrod]

Has this been answered yet?...Shay has family here in Medicine Hat, lots of questions, and this has been a huge one. I havent heard anyone talk about it yet.

Thanks

The Edmonton Sun - Tues. March 16th - SLEDDER CAN'T BELIEVE HE SURVIVED - "...Reynolds and other friends watching Shay Snortland take his last turn high-marking on Boulder Mountain...when a wall of snow suddenly crashed down on them." Pg 4

Statements made by the families previously, stated both men were there as spectators, and weren't riding in the event. hmmm....

 

[buck50]

The Edmonton Sun - Tues. March 16th - SLEDDER CAN'T BELIEVE HE SURVIVED - "...Reynolds and other friends watching Shay Snortland take his last turn high-marking on Boulder Mountain...when a wall of snow suddenly crashed down on them." Pg 4

Statements made by the families previously, stated both men were there as spectators, and weren't riding in the event. hmmm....

this wasn't part of the BIS. so yes, they were spectators for the BIS, but then went off and did their own thing over at turbo!!!!!!!!!

 

[Longhorn]

The Edmonton Sun - Tues. March 16th - SLEDDER CAN'T BELIEVE HE SURVIVED - "...Reynolds and other friends watching Shay Snortland take his last turn high-marking on Boulder Mountain...when a wall of snow suddenly crashed down on them." Pg 4

Statements made by the families previously, stated both men were there as spectators, and weren't riding in the event. hmmm....

Event (BIS) was NOT taking place on Turbo when this happened...

 

[Cyle]

There is good reason why I have not posted in the other thread. It is respect for the dead.

THIS is the place to discuss the reality.

I have also refused to ride with unprepared people. We sent them home, told them to come back prepared.... or don't.

I am extremely fussy about who I ride with, the list is short because the terrain is very dangerous.

I think the BIS got a bunch of guys all riled up to put down some big marks on the hill. They were not thinking very rationally and some people died. Some avy deaths are truely accidents. More and more, the ones I read about display serious errors in judgement by the parties involved.

You are correct, education is the answer. I personally oppose all new regulation because it doesn't work. The only solution is for people to use their heads. Too many out there seem to forget how dangerous and brutal mother nature can be. I happen to think a very blunt approach is far more effective. Some might find it abrasive, I think that is imperative.

I agree with almost all your posts. I wouldn't say the people deserved to die but they were poking the bear, and lost. I really still cannot believe what people were thinking to all sit at the bottom like that. It just boggles my mind. I ride safe to make sure I make it home safe. I highly encourage my riding partners to ride as safe, but if they want to poke at a hill I don't like i'm not going to stop them, I will sit out of the way.

 

[Prank Monkey]

CAC Preliminary report. Has a couple pictures taken yesterday.

http://www.avalanche.ca/Default.aspx?DN=ac60b29a-6eaa-40a2-8ea9-373138567eba

 

[maierch]

well, i guees if you have no need for others opinions, i have no need for yours either. pretty simple really

I don't really understand why someone who cares very little about anyone else's opinion is posting on a public forum!

As it's been said before your message is bang on but with how you come across it's going to be difficult to get people to listen because your demeanor is so inflammatory.

 

[MR4WD]

Just curious as to if any locals were up at the shootout that day?

A lot of what I think happens are people drive for 1000's of miles, take vacation, basicly work all year to make it to an event such as this and when they get here find that it's too dangerous to ride, but since they invested so much time and money in just getting here, they're too proud to pay attention to the avy reports etc.

 

[Transporter]

I am just wondering if people that do search and rescue are all volounteers or is it a job that a person can do full time like emt. I know in this case there was other choppers as well that came out to help.