Stuff to watch for on the 18+ cats.

[Lund]

So I was reading through the service manual on engine replacement.

All pretty straight forward.

Fill the crank case half full of CTEC2......

Is there not a way to reset the break-in mode?

Do they fill the crank half full from new?

Should a guy be doing that over winter? Or just fogging?

Wow half full seem excessive.
What exactly does this mean, replacement with a crate motor. Or a rebuild at the shop?
When i rebuild i always make sure the bottom has oil in it but half full doesn't seem right, i'ed be afraid causing hydraulic.
Break in mode isn't needed, that is a manufacture protecting them selves from unnecessary claims from bone heads.

All i do on a rebuild before running it is first bleed the injector pump on the bench before installing the motor in its cradle.
Make sure i have about 1 cup of oil in each cases(bottom end) i'll manually turn it over to make sure the oil spreads accordingly.
Once i have it started and idling, i full stroke the oil injection pump and tie it at full stroke and let it idle for a few minutes. This will bleed the lines to case.
Then i load the sled up and take it to an area i can break it in.
I do not allow for long idles but only get it up to operating temperature, then i run at first in an open area WOT 5 sec. cool off 30sec. WOT 5 sec. cool off again. Will do this about 5-6 times then take it up to a 10sec. pull WOT and cool off 30sec. I do this another 5-6 times and its broken in ready to rip.

 

[Lund]

Wow half full seem excessive.
What exactly does this mean, replacement with a crate motor. Or a rebuild at the shop?
When i rebuild i always make sure the bottom has oil in it but half full doesn't seem right, i'ed be afraid causing hydraulic.
Break in mode isn't needed, that is a manufacture protecting them selves from unnecessary claims from bone heads.

All i do on a rebuild before running it is first bleed the injector pump on the bench before installing the motor in its cradle.
Make sure i have about 1 cup of oil in each cases(bottom end) i'll manually turn it over to make sure the oil spreads accordingly.
Once i have it started and idling, i full stroke the oil injection pump and tie it at full stroke and let it idle for a few minutes. This will bleed the lines to case.
Then i load the sled up and take it to an area i can break it in.
I do not allow for long idles but only get it up to operating temperature, then i run at first in an open area WOT 5 sec. cool off 30sec. WOT 5 sec. cool off again. Will do this about 5-6 times then take it up to a 10sec. pull WOT and cool off 30sec. I do this another 5-6 times and its broken in ready to rip.

A proper break in makes for a stronger longer lasting motor, babying a motor during break in will eventually cause issues.

 

[skegpro]

A proper break in makes for a stronger longer lasting motor, babying a motor during break in will eventually cause issues.

Says to center line of crank.

As per cat service manual.

New engine.

 

[Lund]

Says to center line of crank.

As per cat service manual.

New engine.

Ya thats pretty close to a cup of oil. From the center line of the crank to the bottom of the case is much tighter then the center of the crank to the top of the case.
I thought you meant half way up the case half. That would pretty much bury the crank in oil...LOL

 

[Lund]

Did your motor pooched?

 

[skegpro]

Did your motor pooched?

A little.

 

[Lund]

Did you figure out what caused it, looks like a fuel injector failure on that cylinder. Your getting new injectors right?

 

[DeNytroguy]

A little. //uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190127/7a55cbc26ea008e5d7362b1f2ad1e311.jpg//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190127/390932669a8abe6c3d50997ad2cd51a2.jpg//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190127/b442fd6807250a13b2a8c61542e27824.jpg//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190127/166f2e62b85e077875cc0c34f9a2072a.jpg//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190127/f5ed879e9f394dbeddee35eb196aeaae.jpg//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190127/5a18b00cf155d1c734dce99a05d85426.jpg

That's not so bad... blow the biggest chunks out, new rings and scotchbrite the cylinder walls... reassemble any enjoy :d

 

[DeNytroguy]

Joking aside that's some serious damage!

 

[skegpro]

Did you figure out what caused it, looks like a fuel injector failure on that cylinder. Your getting new injectors right?

Detention, lack of oil or just something randomly came unglued and took everything else out.

Tough to tell forsure.

 

[Lund]

Eisti d'criss de tabanak ce vraiment brisee

 

[Lund]

Detention, lack of oil or just something randomly came unglued and took everything else out.

Tough to tell forsure.

It wasn't an oil issue. Definitely fuel, i'll explain why i think so.

 

[Lund]

The first thing in diagnosing is understanding the function of the system's.
Looking at the pictures there were a few things that stood out immediately.

1-The crown of the piston is melted, generally always caused by lean burn. The fuel is responsible to control piston crown temperatures Not oil and not coolant.
An over heat situation will always effect piston skirting at all 4 corners, the majority of your damage is at the exhaust side, another indicator of lean burn.
A lack of oil will never effect the piston crown, only the skirting and everything below the skirting.
2-complete failure of the connecting rod indicates very low to no lubrication. In these high powered 2 stroke motors oil on its own is not capable of lubricating properly with out the fuel, in fact most of the oil will just fall into the case and the bearings such as the connecting rod will starve on oil. To get proper lubrication the fuel is required as a transport, the fuel is what actually helps get the oil into all the vital area's.

Looking at the damage, that cylinder had a severe fuel shortage, which led to a lost of lubrication, rod failure and piston crown melt down.

If it was me i would be replacing the injectors and dumping the fuel, water in the fuel can cause this failure.
Hope that makes sense and helps.

 

[skegpro]

The first thing in diagnosing an is understanding the function of the system's.
Looking at the pictures there were a few things that stood out immediately.

1-The crown of the piston is melted, generally always caused by lean burn. The fuel is responsible to control piston crown temperatures Not oil and not coolant.
An over heat situation will always effect piston skirting at all 4 corners, the majority of your damage is at the exhaust side, another indicator of lean burn.
A lack of oil will never effect the piston crown, only the skirting.
2-complete failure of the connecting rod indicates very low to no lubrication. In these high powered 2 stroke motors oil on its own is not capable of lubricating properly with out the fuel, in fact most of the oil will just fall into the case and the bearings such as the connecting rod will starve on oil. To get proper lubrication the fuel is required as a transport, the fuel is what actually helps get the oil into all the vital area's.

Looking at the damage, that cylinder had a severe fuel shortage, which led to a lost of lubrication, rod failure and piston crown melt down.

If it was me i would be replacing the injectors and dumping the fuel, water in the fuel can cause this failure.

I don't disagree with anything your saying.

I guess I should test the injector.

Happened at about 115km/hr @ 2000ft.
Esso fuel.

Cats dragging their feet on warranty.

Dropped bit off at the shop Monday, entered the claim.

They opted to send out a cat representative.

Took pictures, pulled the ECM.
Still haven't heard back.

 

[Lund]

I don't disagree with anything your saying.

I guess I should test the injector.

Happened at about 115km/hr @ 2000ft.
Esso fuel.

Cats dragging their feet on warranty.

Dropped bit off at the shop Monday, entered the claim.

They opted to send out a cat representative.

Took pictures, pulled the ECM.
Still haven't heard back.

Elevation would have zero effect, these sled are programmed to run rich on fuel after 2/3 throttle.
And will run safely at low elevation, the only real difference between it and a trail sled is the clutching and you can clutch yours to run a low elevation, they sell the kits for it.
But that doesn't mean that the ECM didn't go sideways and caused the injector to lean out or quit all together.

 

[skegpro]

Elevation would have zero effect, these sled are programmed to run rich on fuel after 2/3 throttle.
And will run safely at low elevation, the only real difference between it and a trail sled is the clutching and you can clutch yours to run a low elevation, they sell the kits for it.
But that doesn't mean that the ECM didn't go sideways and caused the injector to lean out or quit all together.

Yeah very valid points.
Clutching is stock.
Never tapped rev limiter all day.

So if I do ever get a new engine I guess a guy need to still diagnosis injector function and ECM.

Could the reeds have failed first?

 

[Lund]

Yeah very valid points.
Clutching is stock.
Never tapped rev limiter all day.

So if I do ever get a new engine I guess a guy need to still diagnosis injector function and ECM.

Could the reeds have failed first?

Yes sir, i would. One thing i do with all my sleds is about every 4-5 fills. I run ISO-HEET, its basically a water absorber. Just a little, especially if you tend to carry gas cans. It will save you alot of grieve.

A reed failure will not cause this kind of damage, even if it broke apart.
Most of the time when a reed fails the cylinder die's off and a major break down is unlikely. Reeds are only fibrous and though not good to the crank if it has it for lunch. The cylinder would die before a major break down like this.
This likely happened in a few seconds, which is consistent with what i said above.

 

[Cableguy]

they sure dont seem to use much oil

 

[Jorgy]

Yes sir, i would. One thing i do with all my sleds is about every 4-5 fills. I run ISO-HEET, its basically a water absorber. Just a little, especially if you tend to carry gas cans. It will save you alot of grieve.

A reed failure will not cause this kind of damage, even if it broke apart.
Most of the time when a reed fails the cylinder die's off and a major break down is unlikely. Reeds are only fibrous and though not good to the crank if it has it for lunch. The cylinder would die before a major break down like this.
This likely happened in a few seconds, which is consistent with what i said above.

Where do you buy the ISO-HEET?

 

[skegpro]

Day 11 without a engine.
Still not approved by cat care.

Snow in forcast.