canuck5
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What does a fully fueled full of coolant 850 weigh? Anyone
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Sidewinder Effect - where does four stroke go from here?
- Thread starter skegpro
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LBZ
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Drop the price down to equal or less than a 2S and I almost guarantee you would see a shift in sales.
To me it's more of a case of power to weight and cost that affects the sales of the 4S. I feel now that 4S p to w is better than the 2S, and price is getting closer seeing as the 850 pushes 17g, your going to see a shift.
To me it's more of a case of power to weight and cost that affects the sales of the 4S. I feel now that 4S p to w is better than the 2S, and price is getting closer seeing as the 850 pushes 17g, your going to see a shift.
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skegpro
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- #24
skegpro
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Especially if you go turbo to turbo.
850 turbo kit is atleast $5500 CAD.
ABMax24
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Possible Yes, Likely No. The tooling and amount of parts necessary to redesign a 4 stroke engine is incredible. IIRC the sidewinder and the YXZ1000 SxS share a lot of engine components bringing down the cost of the engine. To redesign a completely new engine to make 160ish HP that weighs in under a 100lbs is formidable task, there are simply parts that don't get much smaller or lighter than they already are, where a 2-stroke only has a handful of moving parts.
Personally I don't see Yamaha coming out with a lightweight 4-stroke turbo to compete with the current 800 2-stroke, there is far too much R&D required. I believe this will come from one or all of the big three and will come as a result of the EPA phasing out 2-strokes due to emissions, not in the quest of lighter more reliable power.
LBZ
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Get a grip. A stock trim 163 2S doesn't even weigh that little. Try 550lbs. And that's an achievable weight for a 4S with a turbo IMO.
Lund
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Turbo vs turbo, a 4stroke turbo will walk on a 2stroke turbo. Experience talking, i know from running with 2stroke turbo's. Not that the 2stroke turbo don't impress, the torque just isn't there in comparison and the weight differences is not enough to make up much of anything respectable.
The cost imo is one big reason the market is what it is. Yammies are up there in price.
The cost imo is one big reason the market is what it is. Yammies are up there in price.
ABMax24
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Without fuel yeah they do. If you really think you can make a fat pig of a 4 stroke lighter or as light as a 2-stroke then go ahead and keep believing that.
It's funny that Rotax builds numerous types of 4 stroke engines for sea-doos, aircraft, SxS's Etc. and Ski-Doo has access to all of this technology, yet their newest and greatest in the mountain market is an 850cc 2-stroke. I wonder why this is?
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skegpro
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Ski-doo has the 900 ACE weighs 22 lbs more than the 850, which is in the ballpark in my mind. Turbo is close to net zero lbs by the time you pull the suitcase off.
BRP turbos their four strokes for a reason.
Having said that,
I'd be cool with a factory turbo 2 stroke too.
06yamahaapex
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Yamaha isn't as concerned about the mountain market share as they are about the Ontario and Quebec market share. I have ridden out there and there are tons of yamahas. Now with the sidewinder probably even more. Just go on Kijiji in Quebec and look at the mileage on the used yamahas. Try that with a 2 smoke.
LBZ
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Um no they don't. I don't know why people even compare weights unless they are full of fluids. Seriously. Who rides without fluids?
RTR weights.
The gap ain't that big between them. HP however has a gap and it doesn't favor the 2S.
A first generation Rev chassis weighs close to the same as an SW. Don't remember anyone calling them fat back then.
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canuck5
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That's actually a lot higher than I expected that's within 50lbs of a sidewinder without the turbo advantage.
Lund
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Have you ever riden a 4stroke Doo LOL, not even in the same league. Plus the modifications required to make it work made the sled unaffordable compared to a Yamaha. Everything from gearing and clutching to skid had to be upgraded just to make it compete with a Yamaha. Yes they might have access to great stuff but don't have the know how or history to do it.
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skegpro
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OK good, I was starting to think I was the only one noticing that the gap has narrowed seriously.
Horsepower is a great equalizer but I am guessing there are ways to put the sidewinder on a diet to get her in the 800 game.
Lund
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The last pic. of the Summit at 590lbs is only 30lbs lighter then my 620lbs pig. Except i have nearly a 100HP advantage on it at seas level and a heck of alot more at 6,000ft.
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- #36
skegpro
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Haha yup.
And PS us two stroke guys don't care about your nytro/apex chassis. It is **** even if it weighed 500 lb.
No disrespect.
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- #38
skegpro
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Could be, couldn't find any other picture on the net of them hanging on the scale.
I thought they lost some weight this revision?
I do know that particular 850 is e start.
But so is the winder.
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Yeah it's on the internet and half the sled is cropped out of the pic...
If had to guess Id say its about 40lbs high. But who knows? Give it some time and more people will throw one on a scale.
Feels really light when you ride one, or have to unstuck one.
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skegpro
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Yeah I am sure this will spur on a response from someone who has one they can weigh.
Have you ridden a winder yet?
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