Sidewinder 174 build and season ride report

[Lund]

Have you tried 8KC with D rivet in the tip and sec 3-3? I’m not sure why it wouldn’t pull rpm. We were 7300’ heavy spring snow

In my own Winder no, last season i went with the 8LR and stuck with them. One of the other Winder's ran the 8KC and i'm not sure what ended up being used for rivet at the end of the season. It went good, pulled hard.
I kinda thinking that your's was not pulling not because of the weights but something else going on. The 8KC are an easier weight to pull then the 8LR because of their profile, that's why they are used in the MTX.

We ran 3 Winders with 3 different clutch tunes over a course of last season, i had the 8LR, another with the 8KC and another with i believe Thunder shift weights.
The 8KC were the best in the trees the 8LR were the best for climbing and track speed and the Thunder shift we had mixed reviews, this is all on stock tunes.
All we basically did is swap out springs and cams too keep things simple.

 

[Turblue]

Thanks Lund for the clutching insight...I’m definitely lacking on that part of the sled world.


Well ready to rip...bit of a tunnel wrap to balance the look...

 

[Lund]

WAY improved, she's a beauty, i definitely prefer the new look.
Are those the stock front shock's?

This season i will be doing some minor changes to clutching to adjust for the power up.
Different gear ratio's in combination with different secondary spring and helix.

 

[bjd68]

Good job on the sidewinder! Just finished reading through this whole thread and lots of good info ! Thanks

 

[Turblue]

WAY improved, she's a beauty, i definitely prefer the new look.
Are those the stock front shock's?

This season i will be doing some minor changes to clutching to adjust for the power up.
Different gear ratio's in combination with different secondary spring and helix.

Yes back to stock front shocks. Have you been out yet? Hopefully we can hook up this year. I pretty sure we will be in Sicamous in January.

 

[Turblue]

Good job on the sidewinder! Just finished reading through this whole thread and lots of good info ! Thanks

Yeah I had plans to put short cuts on the first page to good info so a guy doesn’t have to read through everything....glad it helped

 

[Lund]

Yes back to stock front shocks. Have you been out yet? Hopefully we can hook up this year. I pretty sure we will be in Sicamous in January.

No i have not been out yet, been busy with other things, kinda hoping to work on the Winder today and tomorrow.
I would look forward to doing that, just pm me when you do.
Have you tried it with the shock flipped like that?

 

[Turblue]

No i have not been out yet, been busy with other things, kinda hoping to work on the Winder today and tomorrow.
I would look forward to doing that, just pm me when you do.
Have you tried it with the shock flipped like that?

No...was planning on flipping them around ...I seen they are like that on the 2018’s , but concerned is ice build up around the where it compresses and knocking off the Schrader valve.

 

[Lund]

No...was planning on flipping them around ...I seen they are like that on the 2018’s , but concerned is ice build up around the where it compresses and knocking off the Schrader valve.

Ya that would be a concern.
The other issue is a shock has 2 valves built in. A compression valve and a rebound valve. Flipping the shock over might cause your shock to compress through the rebound valve and rebound through the compression valve. This could effect the shock performance and durability.
I know a guy at Yamaha, Nick King, he is the Fox expert and certified Fox tech., i will ask him if it kosher to flip them.

 

[Quicksand]

Who's kits are you guys using for power ups? Have you found any one kit that works the best? I assume MCX is a safe, no bull option. Hurricane claims more power for less $$ but is it putting out claimed HP? MCX says the factory turbo will only support 250HP, looks like hurricane says 290hp on the factory turbo.

Is there others out there? Or any better options?

I'm leaning hard to joining the dark side with you guys. I rarely leave anything stock, just kinda planning out a build and seeing what kinda money I'd be into it for. Going to ride an 18 winder this weekend and see how she goes

I should mention I'm planning to run pump gas so 290 is most likely out of the question anyways, just more wondering if hurricane is full of crap with their claims

 

[Xmrider163]

Who's kits are you guys using for power ups? Have you found any one kit that works the best? I assume MCX is a safe, no bull option. Hurricane claims more power for less $$ but is it putting out claimed HP? MCX says the factory turbo will only support 250HP, looks like hurricane says 290hp on the factory turbo.

Is there others out there? Or any better options?

I'm leaning hard to joining the dark side with you guys. I rarely leave anything stock, just kinda planning out a build and seeing what kinda money I'd be into it for. Going to ride an 18 winder this weekend and see how she goes

I should mention I'm planning to run pump gas so 290 is most likely out of the question anyways, just more wondering if hurricane is full of crap with their claims

There are a few kits Precision EFI, Hurricane, MCX Stage 2, EVO Stage4. Turbo Dynamics has good tunes not sure if anyone runs them in the mountains though.

I think if you pick anyone of the big 4 tunes and run pump gas results will be similar. Toss on a Stage 3 MCX if you want the bigger setup over just a tune.

My advice is ride the 2018 the entire day/weekend and play with the shocks and give it a fair go. If you hop on it for 10 minutes at a time you may not like it. Find out what it can and cannot do for your riding style. Hope to see you on one love mine.

 

[Lunch_Box]

They all claim these higher HP numbers but thats on a dyno for a short pull. Put it on the mountain on a climb or a long pull and these little turbos get heat soaked pretty fast. I have the Evo stagae 4 and am happy with it, but they recently dropped their sled section so there is no support. Precision EFI or Hurricane seem to be the only 2 left doing testing at elevation. And like you mention MCX is always a safe bet, just a more pricey.

 

[Lund]

Who's kits are you guys using for power ups? Have you found any one kit that works the best? I assume MCX is a safe, no bull option. Hurricane claims more power for less $$ but is it putting out claimed HP? MCX says the factory turbo will only support 250HP, looks like hurricane says 290hp on the factory turbo.

Is there others out there? Or any better options?

I'm leaning hard to joining the dark side with you guys. I rarely leave anything stock, just kinda planning out a build and seeing what kinda money I'd be into it for. Going to ride an 18 winder this weekend and see how she goes

I should mention I'm planning to run pump gas so 290 is most likely out of the question anyways, just more wondering if hurricane is full of crap with their claims

One of the things to think about when your shopping and looking at power up's is the type of riding you do. I had originally, last spring bought an MCX stage 2 250hp kit for mine to be installed this season.
The problem was, i kinda jumped a little too quickly and after i had it found out that the kit requires a minimum of 98oct fuel to do the claim performance.
In the past with a few sled's i mixed but no more. It just doesn't work well for my style riding as during the season once or twice i will hit the road for a week and travel too small communities in BC to ride their hidden gems. So i needed to be able to use pump fuel and not turn my truck into a mini tanker like i use too.

My advice is do your research, know the kind of riding your expecting and your requirement's.
I ended up selling the MCX 250 kit and bought a stage 1 MCX 225 kit instead, it fits my requirements and i can run straight 91oct.
The other interesting part is if i would had done my homework more thoroughly, i would had seen that the 250 and 225 MCX are only 20ftlbs of torque differences making the 225 very appealing for me not just in simple fuel requirements but cost.
I got hooked on that number 250 LOL

 

[Lund]

Who's kits are you guys using for power ups? Have you found any one kit that works the best? I assume MCX is a safe, no bull option. Hurricane claims more power for less $$ but is it putting out claimed HP? MCX says the factory turbo will only support 250HP, looks like hurricane says 290hp on the factory turbo.

I've played enough with 4 stroke turbo's now to agree with the fact that the SW with its current turbo and fuel injectors has a limit of about 250hp. I believe with some fancy tuning you can squeeze 255-260 but the injectors are pretty much maxed out at 250 and this mean's anything more would put Lanbda numbers on the lean side and torque number on the low side.
Plus the turbo will max out at about 16.5-17psi and at this point it would be over taxed and likely to over heat.
There are many big claims out there, but my experience is the SW would require a larger turbo and 3 extra injectors to go beyond the 250 safely while making big torque numbers.

 

[Kibbels]

All of the above is accurate and real world info... PEFI claims 280, Hurricane claims 270... I have the Hurricane so called 270 from my experience of many MCX, 270, 290, 310 & 330 kits on Nytros & Apex over the years the Hurricane feels like an honest 240. Some might think I’m full of chit but that’s my honest opinion! The only issue is trying to figure out these new clutches.. few years on them and many don’t including myself... but it’s fun figuring it out as lots of guys share pros & cons on the SW for the better. As members stated if you want the big power Stage 3 MCX ... the SW is an extremely fun sled!! Good Luck!!

 

[Quicksand]

They all claim these higher HP numbers but thats on a dyno for a short pull. Put it on the mountain on a climb or a long pull and these little turbos get heat soaked pretty fast. I have the Evo stagae 4 and am happy with it, but they recently dropped their sled section so there is no support. Precision EFI or Hurricane seem to be the only 2 left doing testing at elevation. And like you mention MCX is always a safe bet, just a more pricey.

I have always believed the "pay now or pay later" motto. I'd much rather pay more for a kit I know is gonna work than cheap out and pay more after to make it work right. I believe MCX is the most experienced there is in this line and I feel that says it all. Not saying the other kits won't work just fine, but if you do have an issue I bet MCX has seen it before and know exactly where to point you to get it handled

 

[Quicksand]

One of the things to think about when your shopping and looking at power up's is the type of riding you do. I had originally, last spring bought an MCX stage 2 250hp kit for mine to be installed this season.
The problem was, i kinda jumped a little too quickly and after i had it found out that the kit requires a minimum of 98oct fuel to do the claim performance.
In the past with a few sled's i mixed but no more. It just doesn't work well for my style riding as during the season once or twice i will hit the road for a week and travel too small communities in BC to ride their hidden gems. So i needed to be able to use pump fuel and not turn my truck into a mini tanker like i use too.

My advice is do your research, know the kind of riding your expecting and your requirement's.
I ended up selling the MCX 250 kit and bought a stage 1 MCX 225 kit instead, it fits my requirements and i can run straight 91oct.
The other interesting part is if i would had done my homework more thoroughly, i would had seen that the 250 and 225 MCX are only 20ftlbs of torque differences making the 225 very appealing for me not just in simple fuel requirements but cost.
I got hooked on that number 250 LOL

Thanks for this post, I didn't realize the 98oct thing with the 250 kit. I for sure want to run 91oct mixing is a hassle and sledding is expensive enough. but you're right 250 does have a nice ring to it

 

[Quicksand]

One other question Lund, what elevations do run that thing at? With an N/A sled with a high compression head altitude obviously plays a huge roll in what octane is needed. On the turbo 4 strokes, can you run the 225 kit at lower elevation (2000') without adding some race/av gas. Does it just dial back the boost to run safely?
The reason I'm asking is I put more miles on around home than I do in the hills we're at 3000' here. Ultimately this is why I have never had a 2-stroke turbo before it would be pretty much useless without a bunch of screwing around to get it to perform every time i head west and having 2 sleds isn't really an option at this point

 

[Lund]

One other question Lund, what elevations do run that thing at? With an N/A sled with a high compression head altitude obviously plays a huge roll in what octane is needed. On the turbo 4 strokes, can you run the 225 kit at lower elevation (2000') without adding some race/av gas. Does it just dial back the boost to run safely?
The reason I'm asking is I put more miles on around home than I do in the hills we're at 3000' here. Ultimately this is why I have never had a 2-stroke turbo before it would be pretty much useless without a bunch of screwing around to get it to perform every time i head west and having 2 sleds isn't really an option at this point

You would be completely safe, the reason they want you to run 98oct on the stage 2 is because of the extra boost being added. The higher the boost goes the higher the chance of pre detonation. The stage 1 225hp retains the Yamaha over boost safety system to protect your motor. While the stage 2 250hp the system is bypassed.

 

[climbmax]

Mike.
98 RON in Europe is comparable to 93 in North America. You were good to go. I had stage2 on for a full year and ran it on Shell Premium. Now have Stage 3 and run it on same fuel. Its gonna be hard to hurt that engine.
Merry Christmas.
RS