Kinder Morgan

[skegpro]

https://www.google.ca/amp/business....ampaign-to-sue-ottawa-over-oil-tanker-ban/amp
Funny how there is very little media attention given to the natives wanting their own pipeline. I guess that's ok because they are the protectors of the land and know best

Wow that is interesting.
And good for them.
I respect this so much.

 

[skegpro]

*and* not *an* genius :d

but high enough I don't need velcro shoes lol.

 

[Caper11]

This is what I was trying to articulate this morning that probably wasn't very coherent.

The WTI/WCS differential is what drives investment in upgraders.

And right now with a $20/bbl differential standalone upgraders probably would have a tough time to justify their existence when upgrading costs $10-14 per bbl. Not factoring in any capital costs of the project.

Integrated companies like Suncor/Imperial Oil it doesn't matter as much cause it's just one division of a company, the upgrader selling product to the refinery division. The real good synthetic stuff is like baby food for the refineries but doesn't fetch much of a priemium on the world market.

Most of high conversion refineries (like NWR) in the states can do it for less cost per barrel because it is cheaper to operate and lower capital project costs. And then couple that with way less red tape it is no wonder why more projects end up being built south of the boarder.

So moving forward that basically leaves us exporting raw WCS crude, and since the high conversion refineries in the states are our only potential customers at the moment we get the differential shaft.

Before NWR no new refineries have been built in Canada in the past 30 some years, infact 10 have shutdown.

If it wasn't for the government money NWR probably would never have been built.

Do I think more high conversion refineries are a good idea? Hell yes.
Every province should have one.

And the feedstock should be Canadian Oil.

Do I think it should be government buying pipelines and building refineries. No.
But they should foster a royalty and tax scheme so they do exist.

We should have the cheapest diesel and gasoline prices of all fist world countries.

And a highly prosperous royalty revenue stream for all Canadians.

But here we are arguing about a small pipe in the ground.

And ps Moyie I have a 118 IQ score.

Lol its all good, I couldn’t get my head wrapped around what your thoughts were at first.
I for one would love to see no more foreign heavy oil in canadian refineries, and our own Alberta product piped to more refineries able to handle our oil. Wether its done by new upgraders or updating existing refineries to high conversion.


Actually some of our upgraded crude trades at a premium close to or above WTI

http://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/energy-statistics/real-time-oil-prices-wti-brent-wcs-energy-stocks

http://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/technical/western-canadian-select-wcs

 

[skegpro]

Lol its all good, I couldn’t get my head wrapped around what your thoughts were at first.
I for one would love to see no more foreign heavy oil in canadian refineries, and our own Alberta product piped to more refineries able to handle our oil. Wether its done by new upgraders or updating existing refineries to high conversion.


Actually some of our upgraded crude trades at a premium close to or above WTI

http://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/energy-statistics/real-time-oil-prices-wti-brent-wcs-energy-stocks

http://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/technical/western-canadian-select-wcs

Absolutely.
I think if each province had more of oil industry of some kind there wouldn't be as much tension between provinces and maybe some form of cooperation compared to whatever the fawk this is.

Maybe transfer payments should be paid with bitumen in kind?
Bet a pipeline would be approved next day.

And yes the WTI/Synthetic differential is sub $3 now adays.

This is largely due to the fact that so many refineries down south are now tooled up to handle WCS oil.

How upgraders came to be was there used to be a massive differential.

But WCS is low because they know the pipe only points south.

 

[acesup800]

tell me about it! Being self-employed nowadays isn't fun. So many obstacles to overcome and constantly paying some type of fee etc etc. For example, when we import containers, the docks now require appointment times to send trucks to p/u containers. If appt book is full and you can't get your container in time before demurrage fees apply (usually 48 hrs) then we are subjected to US$180 per container per day by the shipping line and there is nothing we can do about it. We shipped 20 cans from Stony Plain to Edmonton rail for loading on the vessel in Vancouver. Shipping line changed the cut off date and made our containers too early for vessel as we planned for the original date. Here is another US$4200 invoice for that thank you very much and they created the problem. Very frustrating!!!

Ship via rail and pay a transloader in Vancouver to do it for you. No rail demurrage risk and no detention risk.

 

[eclipse1966]

Ship via rail and pay a transloader in Vancouver to do it for you. No rail demurrage risk and no detention risk.

Do that as well but peas take a beating with so much handling so my client prefers we avoid them. Grains are ok. Btw we still get exposed to rail car demurrage as well if delays etc etc

 

[S.W.A.T.]

Do that as well but peas take a beating with so much handling so my client prefers we avoid them. Grains are ok. Btw we still get exposed to rail car demurrage as well if delays etc etc

Is there a market for trucking these goods?

 

[imdoo'n]

but high enough I don't need velcro shoes lol.

i know a fella who i think does.! lol.

 

[skegpro]

Is there a market for trucking these goods?

They are closing elevators in Saskatchewan and building more elevators in Alberta.

Lots of grain gonna need to be trucked.

 

[Stompin Tom]

http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/opinion/editorial/site-c-part-2-1.23263991

A local view on the pipeline project and pretty much bang on as far as I am concerned.

One thing that nobody seems to mention but is a valid point, Neither the Green party nor the NDP can afford an election at this point, their party bank accounts look like a newfies after breakup.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

They are closing elevators in Saskatchewan and building more elevators in Alberta.

Lots of grain gonna need to be trucked.

What are trucking rates for grain?

 

[eclipse1966]

trucking is expensive so anytime we can get it to market via rail it pays. For example, to ship a load of grain to Ontario from AB it is approx $200/mt via truck where as rail it is low $100/mt depending on destination. In our case, since we ship overseas they need to be in containers and trucking cans to the coast is very expensive compared to rail.

Is there a market for trucking these goods?

 

[eclipse1966]

yes and it sucks as it is getting harder and harder to find trucks in a pinch.

They are closing elevators in Saskatchewan and building more elevators in Alberta.

Lots of grain gonna need to be trucked.

 

[skegpro]

What are trucking rates for grain?

High enough I haul my own.

 

[DRD]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...h-trans-mountain-it-could-set-up-an-oka-like/

Guess we’ll see if the Turd has any bollocks soon

 

[imdoo'n]

i like what she has to say

https://youtu.be/8y-rNdlV5oM

 

[tejay]

Meeting on Sunday , shut the flow off Monday. When Vancouver airport runs out of fuel and gas at the pumps skyrockets then Horgan and the NDG party will sit up up and pay attention. GO ALBERTA!! (Born and live in BC) Just want to throw out my support to working people.

 

[imdoo'n]

https://youtu.be/4Rvfgd6oM5U

 

[tejay]

Nationalization of the pipeline sound a lot like Venezuela, Cuba, - nothing good will become of socialism in a corporate world. Elections across the country can’t come soon enough.!!

 

[imdoo'n]

^^^^^ i agree^^^^^