FALLOUT: Avalanche-Turbo March 13,2010

[fargineyesore]

Good post. That would have made it a 6 on the avaluator. The only reason not a 7 was maybe not a new input of rain, warm air, sun. Although that could be argued cuz the storm snow was much warmer than the old layers. So a 6 pushing a 7 on the avie evaluator for dummies. Well into the don't go range.... Anyone want to still argue that this was an accident and not a mistake? Terrain selection. This doesn't mean you can't ride. Just don't go highmarking 4o plus degree terrain. PS. I would argue that no snowmobiler is an expert in avalanches. This sceince takes 20 or 30 years to really be an expert. Biles have only begun hitting high angle terrain in the last ten. So unless someone was skiing or boarding for ten plus years prior to getting their sled then they ain't an expert..... Humble in the face of power much greater than the 900cc that sits between your legs. Many learned this last weekend and many more need to. But their is no need for our community to be stumbling around dazed with the stench of death haunting the air to be taught this lesson. Respect for the mountains is your best bet to get home to your kids.

Stench of death?

 

[themoresnowthebetter]

The conditions that day were rated considerable.
The path that slid naturally that day was the ONLY path that slid that day and it came from the opposite side of the valley.

This was an accident.

I personally know the instructors involved with STS that day and NO, they were not with a licensed acredited IFMGA mountain guide.

 

[knee deep in it]

one thing that I am starting to realize is that a lot of the people at Turbo had enough experience to know better. Maybe they had enough experience to make good judgements, but, for some reason, didn't do it that day.

I can easily see someone coming down the hill towards turbo and being distracted by the large number of sleds. It seems pretty reasonable to stop to look around at the spectacle without first considering the avalanche possibilities. The large number of sleds was a distraction to the normal evaluation process.

Given a bit of time, I am certain many would have come to the conclusion that the area was not safe.

Good decisions aren't always made immediately and that may be the lesson for us all. There certainly isn't safety in numbers.

 

[arcticdodge]

Well this is the first time I have posted on the avy. My condolences go out to the families. I am not going to point any fingers, blame anybody or say "why would you go out there". We all sled/quad for the same reason. To go and play in the amazing wilderness that alot of people will never see. The only reason I am writing is because when my MSN page came on this morning there was a poll about whether or not "charges" should be laid in this incident. And I was very dumbfounded when I saw what the results were sitting at. The poll is on MSN Canada home page on the right hand side lower down in the page. I won't post what they were at, at the time, but I am sure we know where it should be.

 

[Red Mtn Riders]

i've seen you post before that ANY people caught in an avy, it wasn't an accident, somebody fugged up!

Ummmm NO, you haven't seen me post that. Making things up to encite a response is unnecessay. If you are going to make a ludicrous claim like that, I would appreciate it if you could link to where I actually said such a thing.

 

[Crazy8]

More press. The Edmonton Sun March 18, 2010

 

[steveo10]

Well this is the first time I have posted on the avy. My condolences go out to the families. I am not going to point any fingers, blame anybody or say "why would you go out there". We all sled/quad for the same reason. To go and play in the amazing wilderness that alot of people will never see. The only reason I am writing is because when my MSN page came on this morning there was a poll about whether or not "charges" should be laid in this incident. And I was very dumbfounded when I saw what the results were sitting at. The poll is on MSN Canada home page on the right hand side lower down in the page. I won't post what they were at, at the time, but I am sure we know where it should be.

still not sure who the authorities are gonna charge? put turbo hill in handcuffs?

the news is quickly to blame Ozone Dave, which a news team was at Ozone Daves house yestarday... of course he wasnt home

 

[2manykids]

More press. The Edmonton Sun March 18, 2010

Thanks for the read, i wish they would stop calling the soup-ed up.. They are Modded and heavy modded , Souped means you landing in water

 

[sledhead2010]

Accident: An accident is often caused by a variety of contributing factors that interfere with good judgment and may cause inadvertent errors (events).. This permits a series of events to develop eventually resulting in damage to people or property. In every accident there are a series of events (errors) that link together to form a chain. This is a chain of events that if anyone of the events (errors) in the chain were eliminated the accident would have not occurred or would been replaced by a less severe incident.

 

[khaos_]

I met Kurtis Reynolds last year out in Revy. Great guy to say the least. Very sorry and upset to hear about this situation. My heart damn near stopped when I heard the report that night. I was supposed to be there...but thankfully was forced to keep working instead. I praise the people in their quick rescue. Very well done peeps!! Should all those people have been buried in that avy...NO! People need to wake the f@#k up when watching climbs, and waiting to ride....come on. Stay out of the way, but like someone else said...people always do it. The human brain can be distracted quite easily.

Second.... sounds to me like if no one else would have rode the hill near him, Shay might have had more of a chance, from what it sounds like anyway...that's my view. Some of you crazy baztards really scare me. I see someone stuck, and you feel like you need to go and help or out climb him while he's stuck. I've said it before, & I'll say it again...stay the hell away from me, I'll get my own damn sled out, or roll it...whatever. I can handle it. I had a scare like that last year, and now it's the only thing I worry about when climbing is that some dumbass will try and come near me if I get stuck. Making my chances alot worse.

Third.... parents can not be charged in this, that is luducrous. We will definitely have to step up, and back them if they do.

Fourth.... miners go down in shafts all the time to work, they get buried from time to time. Those that survive, and rescue others are deemed heros. It's true, lets honour the heros out of this. I would like to read more about the names of these people.

I will ride revy the next chance I get, oh you bet.....it's who I am. If I die out there while riding....well then it's better then dieing at work.

Please people, open your eyes....let's all learn from this incident. Just wait your turn to climb, and staying out of the line of fire will increase all of our chances to survive an avy.

RIP Kurtis, & Shay.

 

[Red Mtn Riders]

Now stick "Easily Avoidable" in front of that and you have what we saw on Turbo that day.

 

[john c]

mis·take   /mɪˈsteɪk/ Show Spelled [mi-steyk] Show IPA noun, verb,-took, -tak·en, -tak·ing.
–noun
1.an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.


accident this was not. Mistake, plain and simple.

 

[Maclintock]

still not sure who the authorities are gonna charge? put turbo hill in handcuffs?

the news is quickly to blame Ozone Dave, which a news team was at Ozone Daves house yestarday... of course he wasnt home

As I stated earlier in this post, I doubt their will be any charges.

As evidence has not come out yet, but many posters have mentioned in this specific forum topic, "The actual Non planned event of the BIS was over and the Turbo Hill climbing spectacle was on it's own"

Whether or not this was discussed amongst sledders to have a high mark competition or not, IT was not a sanctioned or planned event that was on any waiver, Poster etc about in regards to a competition. Thus no one is liable.

No one can be charged for going out snowmobiling unless their is an actual law that states YOU CANNOT DO SOMETHING.

Ozone Dave or whoever or whatever organized the BIS does not make anyone sign a liabilty waiver and so basically this is just a bunch of friends and aquaintances who went for a ride and raced each other, then some went to highmark as lots do in many bowls and chutes from Wyoming up to Alaska.

As for the people who stopped to watch,,,, that is their own decision and no one forced them to be their.

SO after all that rabble here is the thing. Their will not be any charges filed, but that being said it will be very interesting to see what the BC Gov't implements as changes, laws, policies etc in the Fall of 2011.

Remember they implemented policy once already that cleared legislation as to costs to be incurred ( If so deemed) by the family or individuals in case of rescue or retrieval in the back country.

They may bring in legislation to the fact that backcountry users must adhere to all Bulletin and avalnanche warnings and closures of the back country.

I honestly can see this coming in for sure. An example would be shutdowns on situations similar to last weekend when a High or extreme avy rating is isuued for a certain area and they will shut it down. I used to work for Parks canada and was involved in the Avy control business. This has been discussed for years, especially after every incident and especially the big ones.

Governments are going to protect their arses with legislation. In this case last weekend it can legally be looked at that Victems and Victems families can question why crown land allowed people into an area when the danger was significant and it resulted in deaths. It will take one law case to challenge this and then BANG everyone starts to sue. These are the things they look at and that is why you will see legialation putting the onus back on the user.

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

[*]No swearing.

[*]No personal attacks/slander/threats etc.

[*]If your commenting try and have your facts right.

[*]If you comment then you must accept that others will want to respond to that comment.

[*]Try not to take those comments as a personal attack.

[*]Remember that not all sledders agree/disagree with riding in the mountains when the risk is elevated, please attempt not to put all Alberta and British Columbia sledders into one group.

• No attacking the Moderators for "doing their job"

 

[thunder44]

Snow Queen where were you riding last weekend?????What was the Avy rating???? I know where you were because I was there to. We rode low angle what about you. So do people get smarter taking Avy courses or do we get more compliant in large groups?

Just a question . Accidents happen.

 

[sledhead2010]

mis·take   /mɪˈsteɪk/ Show Spelled [mi-steyk] Show IPA noun, verb,-took, -tak·en, -tak·ing.
–noun
1.an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.


accident this was not. Mistake, plain and simple.

Sorry, but this was accident. If you really think about it was a series of events that lead to the deaths of the two snowmobilers. Most likely if any of the links in the chain had been broken, they would still be alive.
My read on the links;
(1) Lack of organized and controlled events in B.C. providing a safe outlet for this type of activity.
(2) The weather and unstable snow conditions.
(3) The Big Iron Shoot Out (Testosterone, Adrenaline and Horsepower)
For example, how many smoke shows do you see on the public roads leaving the gates after a drag race?
(4) Promoter working the crowd up even more with comments during the action.
(5) People deciding to carry on to Turbo Hill @ 3:00 pm after the event.
(6) People stopping and parking at the bottom of the hill/
(7) First person who decided to try and climb Turbo Hill. This cleared the way for the next attempt making it okay for every one else.
(8) One of the victims getting stuck on the hill.
(9) The next person to climb the hill with the victim stuck. This again made it okay for more people to climb the hill.
(9) Last person to climb the hill, before the avy. Most likely the trigger.

I'm sure there are more that could be added with some thought.
Instead of debating semantics, snowmobilers need to break down what happened and why and come up with solutions to keep this from happening again.

 

[Red Mtn Riders]

I'm sure there are more that could be added with some thought.
Instead of debating semantics, snowmobilers need to break down what happened and why and come up with solutions to keep this from happening again.

The first step towards the solution is admitting the problem. You appear to be completely unwilling to do this. God help you on the mountain.

You prevent things like this by not high marking a steep slope with 3-4 feet of fresh snow. You avoid this by not parking at the bottom of an avy run out on a day of severe avy danger, especially when there have been other slides. These things were mistakes, poor judgement, all completely avoidable.

You can keep arguing this was an accident all month long if you like. Not facing the facts is only going to serve to put you into a similarly dangerous situation some day. Wising up and confronting it head on, would seem the better course of action.

 

[Red Mtn Riders]

As I stated earlier in this post, I doubt their will be any charges.

As evidence has not come out yet, but many posters have mentioned in this specific forum topic, "The actual Non planned event of the BIS was over and the Turbo Hill climbing spectacle was on it's own"

Whether or not this was discussed amongst sledders to have a high mark competition or not, IT was not a sanctioned or planned event that was on any waiver, Poster etc about in regards to a competition. Thus no one is liable.

No one can be charged for going out snowmobiling unless their is an actual law that states YOU CANNOT DO SOMETHING.

Ozone Dave or whoever or whatever organized the BIS does not make anyone sign a liabilty waiver and so basically this is just a bunch of friends and aquaintances who went for a ride and raced each other, then some went to highmark as lots do in many bowls and chutes from Wyoming up to Alaska.

As for the people who stopped to watch,,,, that is their own decision and no one forced them to be their.

SO after all that rabble here is the thing. Their will not be any charges filed, but that being said it will be very interesting to see what the BC Gov't implements as changes, laws, policies etc in the Fall of 2011.

Remember they implemented policy once already that cleared legislation as to costs to be incurred ( If so deemed) by the family or individuals in case of rescue or retrieval in the back country.

They may bring in legislation to the fact that backcountry users must adhere to all Bulletin and avalnanche warnings and closures of the back country.

I honestly can see this coming in for sure. An example would be shutdowns on situations similar to last weekend when a High or extreme avy rating is isuued for a certain area and they will shut it down. I used to work for Parks canada and was involved in the Avy control business. This has been discussed for years, especially after every incident and especially the big ones.

Governments are going to protect their arses with legislation. In this case last weekend it can legally be looked at that Victems and Victems families can question why crown land allowed people into an area when the danger was significant and it resulted in deaths. It will take one law case to challenge this and then BANG everyone starts to sue. These are the things they look at and that is why you will see legialation putting the onus back on the user.

This was the fault of the individuals involved. There is no one else to blame, certainly not ozone Dave, the guy wasn't even there, it wasn't part of the event he was participating in.

What irritates me is what is in this post. Not only do we already have to deal with land closures due to enviromnentalists (way more so in the US) but the truth is printed above. The govts will now start to enforce closures based on weather because of a few that made really stupid choices. We all end up suffering for the indescretions of the few. Again, all completely avoidable using nothing more than basic common sense. It didn't take ANY special knowledge to know what was going on at Turbo was a seriously bad idea. They did it anyway, a couple died, the rest of us pay from now on.

 

[john c]

These are not semantics we are debating. There is a huge difference between an accident and a mistake. An accident means you put it behind you, thank god for everyday we have, and mourn the victims.

A mistake means you mourn the victims then look long and hard in the mirror and analyze and dissect every aspect of what went wrong. Once you understand what went wrong then you work on improving yourself so that the mistake is never repeated again. You do this so the victims did not die in vain and to lesson the liklihood that there will be more. Until this community can come to grips with the fact that there were huge mistakes made, it can not move forward in any meaningful sense.

 

[trailthumper]

These are not semantics we are debating. There is a huge difference between an accident and a mistake. An accident means you put it behind you, thank god for everyday we have, and mourn the victims.

A mistake means you mourn the victims then look long and hard in the mirror and analyze and dissect every aspect of what went wrong. Once you understand what went wrong then you work on improving yourself so that the mistake is never repeated again. You do this so the victims did not die in vain and to lesson the liklihood that there will be more. Until this community can come to grips with the fact that there were huge mistakes made, it can not move forward in any meaningful sense.

Well Put john c