BC Environment Minister says mountains will remain closed.

[YamaDooPolCat]

I had a thought this morning. While we need to focus on the areas that we risk losing right now, how about a positive momentum movement focused on what we have. I'm going to propose this in our area right now. Instead of waiting for an area to be at risk, step ahead of the game and claim publicly the land we are using, thankful for, to let it be known that we have a large voice, and user group willing to stand up for what we have.
Instead of having a conflict based uprising, have basically a staking claim to what we have, so no one could plead ignorance and say, "oh.. I didn't know people used this land".
build our voice from there. I hate reacting in fear, knee jerk rushed and angry. I want to present with strength. a We are HERE , we Use this, and we are Grateful for this land movement.

Before the government put on the snowmobile restrictions they invited us in to draw on a map all the areas we usually ride. I took a picture of the map after we were done as I was learning not to trust these people anymore.
It turned out to be a waste of our time. Out of 32 area indentified, they gave us two.
It's worth a try to identify and claim areas of use, but it didn't matter squat when at the end of the day.

 

[deaner]

All of these problems are common to all of the different moterized recreation groups. End of the day it is the y2k -headwaters crowd thats wants to shut everything down for all the groups. They do not evan want hikers in.
The use of science to proof their values are right versus using science to find the truth.
Currently under the ssrp proposed wildlands , the entire divide between kananskis country and waterton park on the alberta side will be a park. Effectivly shuttin down all motorized recreation in these areas.
Common themes are protect biodiversity and protect grizzly bear habitat , caribou habitat.

That about sums it up. And I think that is where our provincial organizations really need to hammer on. The FACT that they are not staying objective. We have a group of scientists that are not being scientific. They are interpreting data in ways that achieves THIER desired outcome. That is not science. I think we need to jump all over this and the corruption behind it.

From all of the stuff I have read when I was president of our club here......there is NO evidence to suggest that snowmobiling harms caribou in any way. The only scientific data they have is a displacement study from a long time ago where caribou moved to a different area where snowmobiling wasnt allowed. But there could have been other variables involved, and there is no evidence that any of them were "harmed".....they simply made a choice. And the mortality data they have is damning against them. Basically NO caribou die during snowmobiling season. NONE. So there goes their predation theory. I think it is like Nov-May is lumped together with a zero next to it.

 

[catinthehat]

I want to present with strength. a We are HERE , we Use this, and we are Grateful for this land movement.

That is what we did for years during our land use planning. The risk that comes with this approach is that now the other side knows where you go, I can't tell you how often we heard " I didn't know you could get there with a sled. "
Now that area becomes an issue for somebody.
Be careful who you align yourself with, every group has their own specific agenda. While theirs might parallel yours for now, eventually conflict seems to arise.

 

[morerpmfred]

Participated in the early stages of the gamp process. They wanted to know what areas - trails we accessed during the year. In the ghost / waiporous / huntervalley areas we could access over 20,000 kms of trails. Once the process started we could only access just over 160 kms with our jeeps and about 400 with quads, less then 10 kms of single track. There was lieing and extreme deceat on behalf of srd land manegers.
As motorized recreation users we need to be united in a common front.
Access manegement does not work , all it does is close everything off. We need motorized recreation manegement.

 

[Billy Boy]

Is there not a jurisdiction in North America were they have motorized recreation management? And if there is how well is it run? and if it is successful why can't the Alberta & B.C. governments adopt ideas from those programs? Or does that make to much sense???

Billy Boy

 

[MOMMA]

I'm thinking more of a general.. we are here presence, not specific.. map dot you are here kind of thing. lol. I Want the face of our club members, to be seen, same with Nelson, So they have an understanding that there are indeed active voices in the community. Coming out happy and peaceful I think would be a good thing. Profile us in the Media, sharing the benefits we are already doing. Not in reaction to our fear of losing land.

Hope.

 

[ippielb]

Thanks for helping out.
Every situation has strength, and I think it could be quite effective if you were to email the Minister and just ask questions about snowmobile restriction that were instituted under the Minister of the Environment regulations. You are the tourist that the BC government wants to come to the province, so I'm sure they would be delighted to send you some hogwash. And I would like to see what they send to tourists. I'm sure we could ask some hard questions from their response. The beauty of email over paper.

Sent an email to ENV.Minister@gov.bc.ca asking about the closures and for an explanation of why they are being closed. I also noted that i was a tourist and may be heading south of the border if these closures continue.

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

That about sums it up. And I think that is where our provincial organizations really need to hammer on. The FACT that they are not staying objective. We have a group of scientists that are not being scientific. They are interpreting data in ways that achieves THIER desired outcome. That is not science. I think we need to jump all over this and the corruption behind it.

From all of the stuff I have read when I was president of our club here......there is NO evidence to suggest that snowmobiling harms caribou in any way. The only scientific data they have is a displacement study from a long time ago where caribou moved to a different area where snowmobiling wasnt allowed. But there could have been other variables involved, and there is no evidence that any of them were "harmed".....they simply made a choice. And the mortality data they have is damning against them. Basically NO caribou die during snowmobiling season. NONE. So there goes their predation theory. I think it is like Nov-May is lumped together with a zero next to it.

That would be correct.
The concern with displacement is that the caribou might go to a less desireable area.
Nice theory, but the last caribou in Banff were wiped out when they wandered into a avalanche area and set of a slide. Displacement? The caribou do that with, or without snowmobiles as in the Banff case.

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

Sent an email to ENV.Minister@gov.bc.ca asking about the closures and for an explanation of why they are being closed. I also noted that i was a tourist and may be heading south of the border if these closures continue.

Right on! It will take weeks before you hear a reply, but I'd like to see what they say when it comes through.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Not to be a prick but this is the problem the BCSF and ABC have been dealing with. We are not united, and the greenies and government knows this. All this talk about public protests and such is just talk, if you cant or wont support your local club (which also supports the BCSF or ABC in our fight to save our sport) how are you or anyone else going to get guys/gals to public protest do you really think that will ever happen????? Purchasing memberships helps pay for legal council and other avenues to fight closures. JM2C

Interesting how people say "Not to be a _____" when they're "about to be a _____".

No....I don't think it will ever happen. That's my point!

The rest of your post isn't even worthy of a response.

 

[RockSmasher]

Letter sent. Waiting for a response with bells on.
I write this letter to you because I am growing increasingly skeptical that these motorized vehicle land closures in BC are even the slightest bit effective in curbing the plight of the Caribou. It seems that junk, subjective science is being used to put forth an agenda by a certain group of people who seem to have more say than anyone else in how public land is used. I am an avid snowmobiler from Alberta, and the group I ride with used to love going to BC for the great snowmobiling. It seems now that more areas are closed than open, so we will no longer be making the trek to BC from AB because of closures based on subjective opinions of non-scientists, because you know as well as I do ma'am, that subjective science is not science, it's an opinion, and you know what those are like. I sincerely hope that someone from your office, or you yourself, writes back to me, because I have some interesting data, based on real science, not someone's opinion that I would love to share with you. I would appreciate a real response as well, not a canned, short sentence saying how grateful you are for my interest in BC tourism, because that interest is very rapidly waning, and I am far from alone in this sentiment. Good evening.

-Cory R.

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

Letter sent. Waiting for a response with bells on.
I write this letter to you because I am growing increasingly skeptical that these motorized vehicle land closures in BC are even the slightest bit effective in curbing the plight of the Caribou. It seems that junk, subjective science is being used to put forth an agenda by a certain group of people who seem to have more say than anyone else in how public land is used. I am an avid snowmobiler from Alberta, and the group I ride with used to love going to BC for the great snowmobiling. It seems now that more areas are closed than open, so we will no longer be making the trek to BC from AB because of closures based on subjective opinions of non-scientists, because you know as well as I do ma'am, that subjective science is not science, it's an opinion, and you know what those are like. I sincerely hope that someone from your office, or you yourself, writes back to me, because I have some interesting data, based on real science, not someone's opinion that I would love to share with you. I would appreciate a real response as well, not a canned, short sentence saying how grateful you are for my interest in BC tourism, because that interest is very rapidly waning, and I am far from alone in this sentiment. Good evening.

-Cory R.

Good one!
We'll see what the reply is, likely in January 2014.

 

[ippielb]

Letter sent. Waiting for a response with bells on.
I write this letter to you because I am growing increasingly skeptical that these motorized vehicle land closures in BC are even the slightest bit effective in curbing the plight of the Caribou. It seems that junk, subjective science is being used to put forth an agenda by a certain group of people who seem to have more say than anyone else in how public land is used. I am an avid snowmobiler from Alberta, and the group I ride with used to love going to BC for the great snowmobiling. It seems now that more areas are closed than open, so we will no longer be making the trek to BC from AB because of closures based on subjective opinions of non-scientists, because you know as well as I do ma'am, that subjective science is not science, it's an opinion, and you know what those are like. I sincerely hope that someone from your office, or you yourself, writes back to me, because I have some interesting data, based on real science, not someone's opinion that I would love to share with you. I would appreciate a real response as well, not a canned, short sentence saying how grateful you are for my interest in BC tourism, because that interest is very rapidly waning, and I am far from alone in this sentiment. Good evening.

-Cory R.

That makes two of us that have written to the minister. I'm sure if on Monday morning there was a couple hundred in the mail box, there would be some red flags going up.

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

That makes two of us that have written to the minister. I'm sure if on Monday morning there was a couple hundred in the mail box, there would be some red flags going up.

Yup, that would be what it looks like when the greens and eco urban busy bodies have something to say.

 

[Oilsandsking]

When it comes to the " BC government " dictating where I can and can't go sledding in BC , haha I don't really care what they say I sled when I want ,where I want . If you keep letting the government run your live's you will know what "communism"is .As for the Sledding law you can call me a Outlaw.

 

[ferniesnow]

When it comes to the " BC government " dictating where I can and can't go sledding in BC , haha I don't really care what they say I sled when I want ,where I want . If you keep letting the government run your live's you will know what "communism"is .As for the Sledding law you can call me a Outlaw.

Not to start a war amongst our community, but that is a large part of the problem. The greenies and environmentalists thrive on that sort of attitude. The areas that are monitored and poached when the dates aren't adhered to, dictate no mercy in the eyes of the rule makers. You sir, are not in with the times and many like you are causing areas to be closed up tight.

The arrogant, red necked attitude has to go and we have to conform or we will continue to lose huge areas in the future.

 

[catinthehat]

When it comes to the " BC government " dictating where I can and can't go sledding in BC , haha I don't really care what they say I sled when I want ,where I want . If you keep letting the government run your live's you will know what "communism"is .As for the Sledding law you can call me a Outlaw.

I hope you stay where you are with that attitude, while I sympathize with whoever is on the front line in the battle for access up there, we already have too many like you around here. Every time you guys go "outlaw" we wind up spending more time doing damage control than constructive work.

 

[Oilsandsking]

Ok guys you didn't get what I was trying to say .. I don't wreck the environment , and yes there should be out of bounds areas , but like one the guys said that some people down on the mainland are complaining about pollution ? And that made the government throw out some more laws targeting sledding enthusiasts. Sorry if I may came across as a rebel outlaw redneck pos . just I read that and that pissed me off a bit . But in reality I am a law biding citizen , I follow the rules and that was just me being pissed off , hopefully I didn't upset you guys too much

 

[Oilsandsking]

That being said soon "us " Conforming Canadians" will need a permit to use the washroom lol

 

[moyiesledhead]

That being said soon "us " Conforming Canadians" will need a permit to use the washroom lol

Funny thing is, when I was a kid I remember putting a nickel in a slot to use some restaurant washrooms. Well.....we were "supposed" to. My dad just told me to crawl under!

Remembering that now you'd think I'd be the guy riding in closed areas.