BC Environment Minister says mountains will remain closed.

[Lund]

Who said anything about being a popular post, but as a CERTIFIED backcountry guide, member of the Vernon SAR's team, 35+yrs of being involved in sledding and also an avid telemark skier.....yes i have carried my ski's on my sled many times. There is a huge need to regulate this sport....ya i know, its not a popular thought.

 

[tantrumpipeline]

The problem has more to do with new sledders attitudes and the lack of respect for the environment coupled with the new generation of idiots who were raised by television and xbox all going out buying sleds riding wherever they feel like it cause this is their country and they pay taxes so they can do whatever they want wherever they want like they have since childhood. You can make laws and rules and regulate the crap out of everything and ruin the fun for everyone all you want and you won't fix these idiots and you will further create idiots out of responsible sledders because once things are over regulated people backlash, I know if my buddies 12yr old wasn't allowed to ride the trail into the mountains because of some stupid rule we would take him anyway, who says you can't ride at 12? I've seen more phucktards in their 30-40's doing Mach 1 on the trail than a 12 year old and how many under 14 are smashing beer all day bragging how great they are and not only riding out drunk but towing their 30ft trailer in their lifted dually with stacks? Regulation isn't the issue here at all it's education

 

[moyiesledhead]

I'm one to believe that we DO need more control and regulation on sledder's and i'm a life long sledder.
The free for all is a BC mentality, you go most anywhere else in N.america and sledder's are strictly regulated.
As for BC eventually being closed to the sport is BS, and will never happen.

Many donot like the fact that they are being regulated, so they fearmonger to get the masses going.
There has to be designated recreational area's to suit all, skier's, hiker's, ect, ect, inclueding sledder's. These recreation's are not mixable and no one has the right over the other. Regulation is a MUST to control these activities so people can all enjoy their adventures, safely and peacefully. Unfortunitly people do not self regulate themselve's very well....thus the purpose of control regulation through all parties and goverment.

IMO, this is a must to preserve our sport and more reg's are actually needed.
-Like all sledder's MUST have a valid driver's liecence.
-All must take an operator's safety course and have a graduated permit to operate a sled.
-No one under the age of 14 should be allowed to operate a sled on provincial(club) trails.
-All sled's must be registered and display their regi. number's on the outside so they are visible to the public,
this would hold sledder's more accountable for infraction's that give sledder's a bad name.
-All sledder's have to carry a minimum insurance policy for accidental injury and SAR's.

The WILD WEST mentality has to END, part of the reason sledder's have a bad rep. in this province.

You should add to your list that all sledders must be able to spell! I won't even get into the pathetic grammar!

3 of the 5 regulations you want to see in your list already exist in BC. How is that working out for you? There is also a speed limit on Forest Service roads that I bet most of us are exceeding. Most of the provisions of the Motor Vehicle act also apply to FSR's. Government has no enforcement capability, nor do I want to see any. I want less government intrusion into my life, not more! Most of the closures we have are necessary and should be respected....not necessarily for the BS reason they were put in place for, but to preserve the rest of our access. Other than that....Government can stay the fawk out of my recreation!

Here! Read it! Forest Service Road Use Regulation

More regulation! Ya....that's what we need!

 

[Lund]

Please guy's don't get hung up on the age thing for kid's, it is a random number but could be lower or higher.
The problem that young families or even older families donot realize is the criminal element in allowing a young person to be involve in a dangerous sport.
Yes this does open a whole new can of worm's but as a parent and guardian of a child it is your responsibility to guard the child from injury or death. That is the way the crown view's it 100% and no matter what you cannot argue it.
Parents are held liable and could be criminaly liable in case of the death of a child while sledding.....accidents happen's. The #1 reason why an age requirement is an asset.

Sorry about the grammer but i'm french so it sometimes to most could sound kinda weird.

 

[bobsledder]

Who said anything about being a popular post, but as a CERTIFIED backcountry guide, member of the Vernon SAR's team, 35+yrs of being involved in sledding and also an avid telemark skier.....yes i have carried my ski's on my sled many times. There is a huge need to regulate this sport....ya i know, its not a popular thought.

Wow, you are a guide, have had your 35+ years of freedom out in the hills and now every one else needs to be regulated?? No thanks..don't think so.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Please guy's don't get hung up on the age thing for kid's, it is a random number but could be lower or higher.

No.....it can't! You said a drivers license should be required. That ain't no random number!

 

[catinthehat]

Who said anything about being a popular post, but as a CERTIFIED backcountry guide, member of the Vernon SAR's team, 35+yrs of being involved in sledding and also an avid telemark skier.....yes i have carried my ski's on my sled many times. There is a huge need to regulate this sport....ya i know, its not a popular thought.

I have to agree with the others, we do NOT need more regulations. What we need is more education and enforcement of existing regs. As to your earlier post listing your thoughts about requirements, who do you propose should be the determiner as to what is necessary content for a training course.
Most, if not all, of the sledders out there giving us a bad name through their behavior already have drivers licenses.
I see a lot of opportunities for cash grabbing if those were implemented.

 

[Lund]

I don't want people getting hung up on the age thing cause there is more to it then meets the eye. But for example in Quebec and Ontario all must take and pass a safety course before being able to operate a snowmobile.
In Quebec the minimum age to operate a snowmobile is 16 and conpetency licence is required.
In Ontario the minimum age is 12 and conpetency licence required.
A provincial driver's licence is required with the conpetency licence for those using active road crossing, logging roads or any trail's that uses part of a roadway. No driver's licence is required otherwise other then a conpetency(safety training) licence.

 

[MOMMA]

As a mother of kids who ride, I feel we have a higher quality because we enjoy life as a sledding family. Little 120s for little guys, progressing up in cc as age deems matching the power of machine to the abilities of a child. I feel I am an educated parent, who makes wise choices for my riding children.

I am in the schools educating stewardship, and safety. Hopefully when these kids reach adulthood, they'll be the ones to carry our sport so their kids can enjoy.. and so on.

We're on a good path I feel, as many people, through club involvement, are being exposed to the necessities of sledding. Snowmobiling is not simply an adult's sport, it's growing again for families, and it would be a shame if people were to limit our youth, as we do depend upon their involvement if we want growth as a user group. Children can ride safe, and do ride safe. It is up to parents to ensure this.. not some half cocked legislation to impede my ability to chose the activities my family enjoys together. It is far healthier for children to have physical activities than depending upon video games for their recreation. Children who ride, are more conscious defensive drivers when it comes time for them to drive a car or a truck. Children who enjoy riding with their families develop stronger bonds with their family members. Children who grow up embraced by their clubs and valued for their involvement grow into leaders and great examples.
I'm quite passionate about family. People call me Momma for a reason. I AM the mother of my children, and absolutely NO ONE will tell me what we can and can not do as a family for recreation. I decide.

 

[catinthehat]

I don't want people getting hung up on the age thing cause there is more to it then meets the eye. But for example in Quebec and Ontario all must take and pass a safety course before being able to operate a snowmobile.
In Quebec the minimum age to operate a snowmobile is 16 and conpetency licence is required.
In Ontario the minimum age is 12 and conpetency licence required.
A provincial driver's licence is required with the conpetency licence for those using active road crossing, logging roads or any trail's that uses part of a roadway. No driver's licence is required otherwise other then a conpetency(safety training) licence.

I am not real familiar with sledding in those provinces other than what I see on the tv shows, maybe having come from there you will know this. How much of the crown land base is available for free riding versus how much is restricted to managed areas only?
What I gather from the tv shows is that the government controls a whole lot more than just the age and competency of riders. I would hate to see our sport regulated to the point that a family cannot enjoy it together. What you are proposing sounds suspiciously like you are saying that family activities should only be nonmotorized until the children are old enough to drive, at which time typically they don't want to spend time with mom and dad.
I hope that what I taught my kids helped shape them into the productive and respectful adults they are today. And YES that included motorized recreation from the time they were able to handle machines on their own. We need less Government involvement in raising our family not more.

 

[Stompin Tom]

Simple facts.

Sledding attracts allot of idiots.

Idiots cause problems.

End of rant.

 

[MOMMA]

I have an article being published this week called Back to the 70s..(unless the title gets changed during editing) It is about family riding, and how we can keep our kids safe. Helmets, chest protectors, supervision, etc.. things to think about as we "encourage" families to share our sport.
This grows the sport, gives us more number, and excellent numbers as these are educated kids growing up. SAVE OUR SPORT.

Government involvement and regulation will help us grow our sport. SAID NO ONE EVER!!!!! We are the ones to impact our sport. We need to reach to our riders and help them understand how to do better and be better. Teaching, rather than forcing has always been more effective. You help people to understand why kids need kid sized helmets, machines suited for their ability and safety training, they'll be all over it, as it simply makes sense.
I'm thinking we need to get our metaphorical chit together, before government "has" to step in, for if they do and they force us to abide by any law that infringes on our rights as riders and parents it's going to be ugly. If you are concerned about the children, I can fire off some curriculum for youth educators in your area. The CAC has a Youth education program as well. Be active in your club and speak up for the little guys. Help people understand the needs of the kids, and encourage your club members to take the lead.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Absolutely agree Momma! And I can present a prime example. Scuba diving! A far more dangerous sport than snowmobiling. It has always been self regulated. Government has nothing to do with it......anywhere! There are no laws or legislation anywhere in the world to regulate recreational diving. Of course there are some outfits making some pretty good money on training ie: PADI, NAUI etc., but at least government has kept their noses out of it. Why? Because the people enjoying the sport and the vendors servicing the sport made their own rules AND FOLLOWED THEM! Not a lot of rules either. Just training and certification. Try to buy or rent air or equipment without it. There are always exceptions of course, but for the most part it won't happen.....anywhere in the world. We could learn a lot from that!

 

[Lund]

Thats good to hear, do you realize your agreeing with what i said.
Education is key, that was mention numerous times. That is what i've been saying....just read the post instead of getting all wildup on things.
You need to take an educational course for a firearms permit.
You need to take an educational course for a boater's licence.
Many got all up in arms about these thing's but it was all educational, put together by experts in those field's and covering many aspect's of the given recreation.
But unfortunitly many of you feel you know everything about sledding and a course doesn't apply to you because you have been doing it for soooo many years.
So who better to educate other then you right.
From experience with SAR's this season alone that is just started, we have now recorded the most rescues conducted since we have been commissioned.

There is no doubt that your involvement in showing other's safe riding ethic's out there is important, but a sledding program directed towards mountian riding put together by PROFESSIONAL's involved in all aspect of this winter backcountry recreation would be very valuable to all, inclueding experienced rider's.
It would be like any other course and requirement, once takin its for life and "certified" that you have atleast minimum knowledge. It sure would help us out at SAR's and rescue personal.

Please excuse any grammer issues thx

 

[moyiesledhead]

Thats good to hear, do you realize your agreeing with what i said.

No......I'm not. Just to refresh your memory, here's what you said. Only one of your points was about education.

Regulation is a MUST to control these activities so people can all enjoy their adventures, safely and peacefully. Unfortunitly people do not self regulate themselve's very well....thus the purpose of control regulation through all parties and goverment.

IMO, this is a must to preserve our sport and more reg's are actually needed.
-Like all sledder's MUST have a valid driver's liecence.
-All must take an operator's safety course and have a graduated permit to operate a sled.
-No one under the age of 14 should be allowed to operate a sled on provincial(club) trails.
-All sled's must be registered and display their regi. number's on the outside so they are visible to the public,
this would hold sledder's more accountable for infraction's that give sledder's a bad name.
-All sledder's have to carry a minimum insurance policy for accidental injury and SAR's.

The example I presented has no "regulations". It's all voluntary. There are no age restrictions. There are no insurance requirements. Sure, you can't buy equipment without the education....but again, that's voluntary on the part of the vendor. There is no LAW that says he can't sell it to you. I'll always agree with you about education, but I'll never agree with you about more rules and regulations, and especially about involving government.

 

[Lund]

Without a certain amount of regulation, people in general won't doit. We have seen this in other program's such as boating. There has to be an incentive to get people educated on the safety of sport in general and regulation seems to be only effective way to do it. I realize you don't agree with it, but niether did many boaters when it was first introduced and yes it has proven VERY successful the program in the reduction of rescues and life lost.
This bring's me back to my first post that people do not self regulate them self's very well, thus why regulation's and courses ect, ect, bla bla bla.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Without a certain amount of regulation, people in general won't doit. We have seen this in other program's such as boating. There has to be an incentive to get people educated on the safety of sport in general and regulation seems to be only effective way to do it. I realize you don't agree with it, but niether did many boaters when it was first introduced and yes it has proven VERY successful the program in the reduction of rescues and life lost.

I just gave you an example of a program that works without regulation. Boater licensing is a terrible example to make your point. It's a joke. I got mine at a trade fair. The guy waved me over and said just write the test. If you don't pass you don't pay. I passed, my son passed, my wife passed. What a joke. How is that education?

 

[Lund]

I just gave you an example of a program that works without regulation. Boater licensing is a terrible example to make your point. It's a joke. I got mine at a trade fair. The guy waved me over and said just write the test. If you don't pass you don't pay. I passed, my son passed, my wife passed. What a joke. How is that education?

That's good' it proved that you know the stuff needed but many know alot less then you do and maybe it was difficult for them. Atleast it helped them

 

[moyiesledhead]

That's good' it proved that you know the stuff needed but many know alot less then you do and maybe it was difficult for them. Atleast it helped them

Ya, right. It proved nothing. My wife had never driven a boat in her life. She knew nothing. She passed.

 

[tantrumpipeline]

Ya, right. It proved nothing. My wife had never driven a boat in her life. She knew nothing. She passed.

Same here I bought a boat they basically handed myself and girlfriend our licenses, open book exam with no time limit and I couldn't tell you anything I wrote nor could I care less, common sense and respect for others and no issues to date