BC Environment Minister says mountains will remain closed.

[ferniesnow]

Ok guys you didn't get what I was trying to say .. I don't wreck the environment , and yes there should be out of bounds areas , but like one the guys said that some people down on the mainland are complaining about pollution ? And that made the government throw out some more laws targeting sledding enthusiasts. Sorry if I may came across as a rebel outlaw redneck pos . just I read that and that pissed me off a bit . But in reality I am a law biding citizen , I follow the rules and that was just me being pissed off , hopefully I didn't upset you guys too much

I'm glad you didn't go away mad but you did come across similar to a very large group of riders we have everywhere in our sport. It is tough to deal with the environmentalists/greenies and have wanton abandon on the landscape, so to speak. Thanks for clarifying your position.

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

I'm glad you didn't go away mad but you did come across similar to a very large group of riders we have everywhere in our sport. It is tough to deal with the environmentalists/greenies and have wanton abandon on the landscape, so to speak. Thanks for clarifying your position.

It would be handy if you could channel that anger toward the cause of your frustration.

The best thing you can do is start at the top, because it was the Minister of the Environment that signed off on whacking snowmobiling. The original Minister that was convinced to attack snowmobiling as the root of all evil, is now retired and living a stress free life in the Center of the Universe, someplace down by Vancouver. Since him there have been four more ministers, and now #5 is Mary Polak at env.minister@gov.bc.ca .
Even though BC has the same party in power, 5 ministers in 6 years is a problem as it takes time for the minister to become interested and familiar with our issues.

When a big issue that might upset the urban greenies comes up, like the Caribou restrictions, the ministers don't feel like wasting any time on digging into what went wrong. Instead the ministers rely heavily on the MoE advisors to tell them what to think. The same advisors have been there a long time and managed lots of ministers, so you know where that is going to lead. The staffers can malign the snowmobile community with impunity, and we get put into the dead zone.

So what can we do, never quit.

Email the minister.
Tell the Minister (because they change like diapers) that snowmobiles are irrelavant when it comes to the decline in caribou populations, that the removal of snowmobiles from caribou areas results in sharp declines in caribou numbers due to predation, and the waste of public money chasing snowmobilers is an irresponsible waste of taxpayers money that could be better used for anything else. The restriction of snowmobiles to small areas created pointless concentrated use, whereas before restrictions snowmobiles were very dispersed and disrupted the wolves more than the caribou. The first thing that happened when clearing the snowmobiling out of an areas was that the wolves could hunt down and kill caribou in peace and quiet.

So what can we do, just follow the example of the green ones we complain about, and never quit.

 

[CRF]

Just a question, what involvement have you had with your club?
Because I know Moyiesledhead is very active within the Cranbrook and Moyie clubs and has been for years. I sat beside him for 5 years during the most painful negotiations you can imagine trying to save as much riding area around Cranbrook and Kimberley as possible from the dreaded Caribou habitat monster. When he tells you what doesn't work he is speaking from painful experience.
As to how to get more new blood involved in clubs, that my friend is the 6 million dollar question.

I have been the President of the Pine Valley Trail Blazers in Chetwynd for the last 5 years. I don't know Moyiesledhead, I give him 100% credit for his involvement. What I do not get is going around the one and only tool we have to fight closures and that's the clubs.

 

[deaner]

I have been the President of the Pine Valley Trail Blazers in Chetwynd for the last 5 years. I don't know Moyiesledhead, I give him 100% credit for his involvement. What I do not get is going around the one and only tool we have to fight closures and that's the clubs.

Exactly. As empowering as it might feel to write a letter to the environment minister, do you really think it is going to do any good?

I think the key is in having a powerful and effective provincial organization in place to handle this stuff for all of us. As we have seen in these types of threads, people have no problem bucking up and supporting this stuff. The key is in being focused and effective. IMHO step number one is uniting the two provincial organizations. Its time to forget the past and think about the future. But we can still learn from the past mistakes that caused the split in the first place. I think one strong provincial organization dedicated to promoting safety and keeping our areas open is the key. And I think full time, salaried, qualified people are needed to run this. It is just getting too much for people to do effectively on a volunteer basis.

 

[ferniesnow]

Exactly. As empowering as it might feel to write a letter to the environment minister, do you really think it is going to do any good?

I think the key is in having a powerful and effective provincial organization in place to handle this stuff for all of us. As we have seen in these types of threads, people have no problem bucking up and supporting this stuff. The key is in being focused and effective. IMHO step number one is uniting the two provincial organizations. Its time to forget the past and think about the future. But we can still learn from the past mistakes that caused the split in the first place. I think one strong provincial organization dedicated to promoting safety and keeping our areas open is the key. And I think full time, salaried, qualified people are needed to run this. It is just getting too much for people to do effectively on a volunteer basis.

and how do you propose such a thing to happen given the present state of dissension?

 

[deaner]

and how do you propose such a thing to happen given the present state of dissension?

I think there are two critical factors. One is getting new blood involved. New people with enthusiasm and good ideas. The second is the people that have been involved for a while need to put the issues ahead of their personal differences. Realizing that having one united organization is more important than convincing everyone that our side is "right". Because even if one side is more in the right than the other, yet we still remain divided, everyone loses.

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

Exactly. As empowering as it might feel to write a letter to the environment minister, do you really think it is going to do any good?

I think the key is in having a powerful and effective provincial organization in place to handle this stuff for all of us. As we have seen in these types of threads, people have no problem bucking up and supporting this stuff. The key is in being focused and effective. IMHO step number one is uniting the two provincial organizations. Its time to forget the past and think about the future. But we can still learn from the past mistakes that caused the split in the first place. I think one strong provincial organization dedicated to promoting safety and keeping our areas open is the key. And I think full time, salaried, qualified people are needed to run this. It is just getting too much for people to do effectively on a volunteer basis.

I'm assuming then that you think that the current situation of huge losses in riding areas for snowmobiles is because for the last several decades we have not had a powerful and effective provincial snowmobile organization? And now we have two?
Well while you seem to be willing to wait for more decades for some powerful and effective organization to materialize, I don't.
Everyone has the right to be heard and get a reply back from the minister, or demand a personal meeting with the minister to have the minister explain why the snowmobile restrictions have not worked, are not working, and will not work to boost the caribou population numbers. No big powerful and effective organization is as effective as one person asking for answers that the minister is obligated to answer truthfully, completely and honestly.
There seems to be too many people that believe someone else is going to do this for them, well what's the matter with you doing it yourself?
Forget about worrying about uniting the two provincial organizations, your time is better spent talking to the people who really did this to you, the government. The government likes to deal with the big powerful and effective provincial organizations because it is easy, and besides it is so messy and volatile when the government actually has to face the people that they made into scapegoats and singled out for political dog meat.

 

[ferniesnow]

I think there are two critical factors. One is getting new blood involved. New people with enthusiasm and good ideas. The second is the people that have been involved for a while need to put the issues ahead of their personal differences. Realizing that having one united organization is more important than convincing everyone that our side is "right". Because even if one side is more in the right than the other, yet we still remain divided, everyone loses.

Very true. I have found that the "new blood" also needs some of the "old blood" there to guide and inform for some of the more important historical factors for moving forward. Also, for pointing the "young blood" forward for regional and provincial contacts. I guess the key is to get a good combination of "old blood" that have forward vision and are willing to change and "new blood" that have the enthusiasm and energy to get things done.

There appears to be small pockets of interest in getting back to one organization but it will be a long process as those issues you talk about aren't going away very fast.

 

[deaner]

Very true. I have found that the "new blood" also needs some of the "old blood" there to guide and inform for some of the more important historical factors for moving forward. Also, for pointing the "young blood" forward for regional and provincial contacts. I guess the key is to get a good combination of "old blood" that have forward vision and are willing to change and "new blood" that have the enthusiasm and energy to get things done.

There appears to be small pockets of interest in getting back to one organization but it will be a long process as those issues you talk about aren't going away very fast.

I agree completely. The people that have been fighting the good fight for the last number of years have a wealth of knowledge, contacts, and passion. It is just a a matter of getting past the differences that have been created over the split. And for that end of things.....I honestly dont know how to approach. On one hand, the past needs to be left in the past, and we need to move forward. But on the other hand I dont think there is anything wrong with taking a good look at where things went wrong in order to make sure it never happens again. It seems like people dont like to talk about why the split happened between the ABCSC and BCSF. Obviously something went really wrong so it probably needs to be talked about so it doesnt happen again. Problem is this will require people putting egos aside and acknowledging that thier "side" did this or that wrong.....and discuss how to avoid that in the future.

 

[CRF]

. No big powerful and effective organization is as effective as one person asking for answers that the minister is obligated to answer truthfully, completely and honestly.

HaHaHa, are you serious? Politicians being honest, now that is a joke. I can tell you that writing letters to the Enviro Minister is good. But you will not be made aware of all the behind the scenes meetings on Caribou habitat with key groups. So how far do you think the letter you wrote will go? In a filing cabinet, that's it. Don't kid yourself, you have too be in their faces 100% and you have to be an organized group to be taken serious. If it were not for the clubs, we would have less areas to ride than we do now, FACT. The BCSF and ABC are invited to these important meetings to voice our concerns and to be heard as a collective group. Support the Clubs that is the best and only way to protect our sport, FACT!

 

[MOMMA]

HaHaHa, are you serious? Politicians being honest, now that is a joke. I can tell you that writing letters to the Enviro Minister is good. But you will not be made aware of all the behind the scenes meetings on Caribou habitat with key groups. So how far do you think the letter you wrote will go? In a filing cabinet, that's it. Don't kid yourself, you have too be in their faces 100% and you have to be an organized group to be taken serious. If it were not for the clubs, we would have less areas to ride than we do now, FACT. The BCSF and ABC are invited to these important meetings to voice our concerns and to be heard as a collective group. Support the Clubs that is the best and only way to protect our sport, FACT!

I promise you one thing.. there are people working very very very hard to make a unified peaceful presence top priority with both BCSF and ABCSnow. It is a good time to be a snowmobiler. It goes beyond playing nice in the sandbox, it means we need to focus on a common goal and giver %#% I also promise you there are some wicked awesome proactive and honest politicians becoming active in this.
I am so incredibly thankful for this thread. It is insightful to those who want change, and to those who resist change, and it is a wonderful show of how WE as a group spread over provinces are willing to do what it takes to make change a reality. We are in a good place.
New people are stepping forward and they have our sport's longevity and strength in mind.

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

HaHaHa, are you serious? Politicians being honest, now that is a joke. I can tell you that writing letters to the Enviro Minister is good. But you will not be made aware of all the behind the scenes meetings on Caribou habitat with key groups. So how far do you think the letter you wrote will go? In a filing cabinet, that's it. Don't kid yourself, you have too be in their faces 100% and you have to be an organized group to be taken serious. If it were not for the clubs, we would have less areas to ride than we do now, FACT. The BCSF and ABC are invited to these important meetings to voice our concerns and to be heard as a collective group. Support the Clubs that is the best and only way to protect our sport, FACT!

HaHa, yes I'm serious.
I participate in both organizations in any manner that relates to the snowmobile closures and caribou. I'm pretty much up to date on where things are at with the government and the BCSF and ABCSnow.
It is important work the two organization do, and we should all join one or the other - or both, to build the membership clout at that table.
BUT - the provincial organization work at the government staff level, where as individuals have no such limitations. Our individual voice, hollering at the top of our lungs - email - letters, at our elected representative is absolutely as effective as any quiet top level meeting by the "professionals". One thing the politicians do not need is getting themselves into a situation where they might have to explain to a TV camera why so much taxpayers money has been spent beating up the snowmobile industry and winter tourism industry, with nothing to show for it but lots of wolves and no caribou.
Write your MLA or the Minister of the Environment, just like any greenie would when they are worried about what is going on, you must be heard to count. That's the rules.
You stay quiet, you don't count.

 

[CRF]

HaHa, yes I'm serious.
I participate in both organizations in any manner that relates to the snowmobile closures and caribou. I'm pretty much up to date on where things are at with the government and the BCSF and ABCSnow.
It is important work the two organization do, and we should all join one or the other - or both, to build the membership clout at that table.
BUT - the provincial organization work at the government staff level, where as individuals have no such limitations. Our individual voice, hollering at the top of our lungs - email - letters, at our elected representative is absolutely as effective as any quiet top level meeting by the "professionals". One thing the politicians do not need is getting themselves into a situation where they might have to explain to a TV camera why so much taxpayers money has been spent beating up the snowmobile industry and winter tourism industry, with nothing to show for it but lots of wolves and no caribou.
Write your MLA or the Minister of the Environment, just like any greenie would when they are worried about what is going on, you must be heard to count. That's the rules.
You stay quiet, you don't count.

Up here IMO it's to push big industry. Coal Mines were popping up everywhere a couple years ago stripping natural caribou habitat. Then certain groups challenged these mining permits that our "honest" politicians were handing out like candy. Now the Government is targeting non Caribou habitat as protected areas to save face and prove that they are doing something to protect these caribou. Well the fact is most of the caribou populations have been decimated by big industry not snowmobilers, but we are the ones having to defend our recreation. Join a BCSF or ABC club everyone and instead of writing letters, volunteer with your local club.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Join a BCSF or ABC club everyone and instead of writing letters, volunteer with your local club.

NO!!!!!! Do all that AND write letters, AND be publicly vocal, but first get educated about the REAL facts behind the decline of Caribou. The clubs and associations end up with only a few people speaking out on behalf of their respective clubs. It's not working! We need a strong presence everywhere the subject comes up. We can't continue to think that the few people fighting on your behalf are ever going to win with only your financial and moral support from the background.

 

[catalac]

Can't say I'm surprised by the bc minister, first off bc continues to have a left wing tree hunger attitude, and some times I understand why.... Last weekend I saw a dick head take his wrecked m8 belt off and throw it in the trees, some one spots a caribou with a belt around its neck in the summer and it's game over for those of us who respect the areas. The new generation of sledders make me wonder, too much money, sense of entitlement and not enough brains.

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

Up here IMO it's to push big industry. Coal Mines were popping up everywhere a couple years ago stripping natural caribou habitat. Then certain groups challenged these mining permits that our "honest" politicians were handing out like candy. Now the Government is targeting non Caribou habitat as protected areas to save face and prove that they are doing something to protect these caribou. Well the fact is most of the caribou populations have been decimated by big industry not snowmobilers, but we are the ones having to defend our recreation. Join a BCSF or ABC club everyone and instead of writing letters, volunteer with your local club.

Why would you NOTwrite the politicians we elected as the people that we are supposed to take a beef to when we have a problem with government policy?
I know lots of people don't vote, but the ones that do get voted in, have absolutely know idea what is important to you if you don't tell them.
That's like not going to your doctor when something is making sick. You have to write these politicians and tell them when something they have done has lowered your quality of life, or taken away something of value for no reason.
So yes, write the politicians, AND join a local club.

 

[ippielb]

Thank you for your email of December 13, 2013, addressed to the Honourable Mary Polak, Minister of Environment, regarding snowmobiling closures in British Columbia's backcountry. Since the management of public recreation is the responsibility of the Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations, your letter has been forwarded to me so that I may respond on Minister Polak’s behalf.British Columbia has a vast area available for winter recreation activities; however, some portions of our extensive backcountry are closed to snowmobiling. Under the Wildlife Act, the Province has the authority to close some areas to snowmobile access for the purpose of protecting critical mountain caribou habitat. These areas can be identified at the following website: Fish and Wildlife - Natural Resource Operations - Province of British Columbia.


Other areas are closed to snowmobiling under Section 58 of the Forest and Range Practices Act in order to provide safe and enjoyable opportunities for backcountry skiing and heli-skiing. Maps of these closures can be viewed at: https://arcmaps.gov.bc.ca/ess/sv/imapbc/.


Regardless of these limited closures, British Columbia offers an unparalleled array of snowmobiling opportunities for riders of all types and skill levels. In the interest of public safety, we encourage local and visiting snowmobilers to ride at the more than 90 snowmobile areas managed by the Province. These sites have all been mapped and rated for avalanche terrain risks and are covered by daily avalanche forecast bulletins prepared by the Canadian Avalanche Centre (CAC). Avaluator signs at the trailheads of all publically managed snowmobile areas provide step-by-step instructions for informed trip planning based on the local avalanche terrain and the CAC's up-to-date bulletins.


For information on BC's publically managed snowmobile areas, visit our website at: http://www.sitesandtrailsbc.ca. Under FIND A SITE OR TRAIL, click on BY FACILITY/ACTIVITY. Follow the link and click on Snowmobiling, then go to the bottom of the page and hit Search Now to select the snowmobile riding area you are interested in. CAC avalanche bulletins can also be accessed on our home page by clicking on the CAC link.

I hope you find this information useful for planning your trip to British Columbia. Have an
enjoyable stay and thank you again for taking the time to write.

Here's my response i received, just now.

 

[Lund]

I'm one to believe that we DO need more control and regulation on sledder's and i'm a life long sledder.
The free for all is a BC mentality, you go most anywhere else in N.america and sledder's are strictly regulated.
As for BC eventually being closed to the sport is BS, and will never happen.

Many donot like the fact that they are being regulated, so they fearmonger to get the masses going.
There has to be designated recreational area's to suit all, skier's, hiker's, ect, ect, inclueding sledder's. These recreation's are not mixable and no one has the right over the other. Regulation is a MUST to control these activities so people can all enjoy their adventures, safely and peacefully. Unfortunitly people do not self regulate themselve's very well....thus the purpose of control regulation through all parties and goverment.

IMO, this is a must to preserve our sport and more reg's are actually needed.
-Like all sledder's MUST have a valid driver's liecence.
-All must take an operator's safety course and have a graduated permit to operate a sled.
-No one under the age of 14 should be allowed to operate a sled on provincial(club) trails.
-All sled's must be registered and display their regi. number's on the outside so they are visible to the public,
this would hold sledder's more accountable for infraction's that give sledder's a bad name.
-All sledder's have to carry a minimum insurance policy for accidental injury and SAR's.

The WILD WEST mentality has to END, part of the reason sledder's have a bad rep. in this province.

 

[lilduke]

I'm one to believe that we DO need more control and regulation on sledder's and i'm a life long sledder.
The free for all is a BC mentality, you go most anywhere else in N.america and sledder's are strictly regulated.
As for BC eventually being closed to the sport is BS, and will never happen.

Many donot like the fact that they are being regulated, so they fearmonger to get the masses going.
There has to be designated recreational area's to suit all, skier's, hiker's, ect, ect, inclueding sledder's. These recreation's are not mixable and no one has the right over the other. Regulation is a MUST to control these activities so people can all enjoy their adventures, safely and peacefully. Unfortunitly people do not self regulate themselve's very well....thus the purpose of control regulation through all parties and goverment.

IMO, this is a must to preserve our sport and more reg's are actually needed.
-Like all sledder's MUST have a valid driver's liecence.
-All must take an operator's safety course and have a graduated permit to operate a sled.
-No one under the age of 14 should be allowed to operate a sled on provincial(club) trails.
-All sled's must be registered and display their regi. number's on the outside so they are visible to the public,
this would hold sledder's more accountable for infraction's that give sledder's a bad name.
-All sledder's have to carry a minimum insurance policy for accidental injury and SAR's.

I rode mountains when I was 12. So ur saying keep the sled skiers out of the sledding areas cause sking and sledders cant mix??? Glad ur not in charge of the mountains...lol

 

[moyiesledhead]

I'm one to believe that we DO need more control and regulation on sledder's and i'm a life long sledder.
The free for all is a BC mentality, you go most anywhere else in N.america and sledder's are strictly regulated.
As for BC eventually being closed to the sport is BS, and will never happen.

Many donot like the fact that they are being regulated, so they fearmonger to get the masses going.
There has to be designated recreational area's to suit all, skier's, hiker's, ect, ect, inclueding sledder's. These recreation's are not mixable and no one has the right over the other. Regulation is a MUST to control these activities so people can all enjoy their adventures, safely and peacefully. Unfortunitly people do not self regulate themselve's very well....thus the purpose of control regulation through all parties and goverment.

IMO, this is a must to preserve our sport and more reg's are actually needed.
-Like all sledder's MUST have a valid driver's liecence.
-All must take an operator's safety course and have a graduated permit to operate a sled.
-No one under the age of 14 should be allowed to operate a sled on provincial(club) trails.
-All sled's must be registered and display their regi. number's on the outside so they are visible to the public,
this would hold sledder's more accountable for infraction's that give sledder's a bad name.
-All sledder's have to carry a minimum insurance policy for accidental injury and SAR's.

The WILD WEST mentality has to END, part of the reason sledder's have a bad rep. in this province.

Wow! I don't think I like you very much! My kids were riding their own sleds when they were 8! I was riding my own when I was 12! And I'll never register another sled in this thieving province!