BC Environment Minister says mountains will remain closed.

[MOMMA]

Go ahead.....ask me what I think of Access BC.

Let me know when you have time to talk!

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

I agree with you, I'd like for all winter enthusiasts to band together to keep access open. The more numbers we have the better. I think that we can maintain an element of peace and share all the areas, and work together to keep pushing back. One loud voice would be awesome.

Minister BC Environment - "BC remains committed to promoting the province as a world class destination for tourism, including outdoor winter activities such as snowmobiling.

Thank you again for writing and sharing your concerns."

Well there's a quote from the powers that be, yet there is no commitment to take a look at whether or not the snowmobile have any positive effect on Mountain Caribou recovery. There is plenty of evidence that it is at best doing nothing, and in quite a few cases where the ban is producing a declining population.

There was a positive effect for any Minister of the Environment as the emails and petitions from well moneyed and connected environmental groups dried up once the Minister fed them the snowmobile community.

My advice is for everyone is to make a commitment to email the Minister of the Environment asking for our community to be released from the burden of being the whipping boy of political expediency. There is no scientific proof, or any case to be made that stands any examination, for banning snowmobiling anywhere in the mountains of BC.

I need more people to turn this mess around, and if you will make that commitment to start emailing our demand, I will commit to helping with any response you receive from the Minister and their minions.

The current management policy from the government is that mountain snowmobiles are all bad, and we should either stay in a couple little play pens, or stay home. That unsupported government management policy is unacceptable, at least in my opinion.

What's your opinion? Tell the minister, because they are supposed to care and be fair, right? And then post the results on here so we can get our teeth into something to drag this policy down!

Make sure you tell others about this blog.Y

ou wonder how the environmentalist won, well this is how it is done.

 

[MOMMA]

Is there a difference in effect between emailing and physical paper letters? I am with you, and will do my best to pitch in and rally the troops. If you'd like to talk on the phone pm me your number and we can formulate a plan.

I promise I'll give every effort to help you, your club and Prince George riders.

 

[2skis]

any area's around Fernie affected by this. We are going there next week for our first time in mountains. Should we be concerned are we gonna get there and only be able to skidoo in the parking lot at our hotel?

 

[ferniesnow]

any area's around Fernie affected by this. We are going there next week for our first time in mountains. Should we be concerned are we gonna get there and only be able to skidoo in the parking lot at our hotel?

Sorry to burst YamaDoopolCat's bubble but he is being a little over reactive. They may have some caribou problems in the Prince George area but not all of BC is affected. Fernie is good to go. There are no caribou in the area but they do have some closures in Kimberly and the Cranbrook area.

 

[2skis]

Sorry to burst YamaDoopolCat's bubble but he is being a little over reactive. They may have some caribou problems in the Prince George area but not all of BC is affected. Fernie is good to go. There are no caribou in the area but they do have some closures in Kimberly and the Cranbrook area.

Thanks Ferniesnow

 

[somethingnuw]

i agree with a lot that has been said... but all motorized vehicle users have to unite... not just winter... quads, sxs and dirtbikers... everyone together we stand a chance... dirt bike and quads are slowly being pushed out of trail systems they created because hikers always win... with urban sprawl we are loosing a lot of riding areas... yes BC and Alberta are large places but i think the Gov't would love to keep everyone out if they could... privatize the forests and crown land and rent it out... that way compaines can police themselves and who enters... and the Gov't makes money without doing anything... what they forget is that crown land belong to the tax payer not the gov't... lets make sure they never forget that!!!!

 

[deaner]

i agree with a lot that has been said... but all motorized vehicle users have to unite... not just winter... quads, sxs and dirtbikers... everyone together we stand a chance... dirt bike and quads are slowly being pushed out of trail systems they created because hikers always win... with urban sprawl we are loosing a lot of riding areas... yes BC and Alberta are large places but i think the Gov't would love to keep everyone out if they could... privatize the forests and crown land and rent it out... that way compaines can police themselves and who enters... and the Gov't makes money without doing anything... what they forget is that crown land belong to the tax payer not the gov't... lets make sure they never forget that!!!!

While I agree that a united front is good, I think we want to watch who we align ourselves with. IMHO mountain sledding and quadding are two completely different things when it comes to environmental impact. I truly believe that sledding has absolutely ZERO environmental impact. I can however understand the arguements to shut down areas to quadding, side by siding, dirt biking, etc. I think there is much more of an environmental impact when mud, grass, and watersheds get torn up, compared to a blanket of snow that just melts every year. Especially considering how much atvs have advanced in the last 10 years.

 

[MOMMA]

Public perception of who we are is a big piece of the equation when it comes to political power. Again, coming back to clubs. A powerful voice, yes, but also a representation of who we are as individuals, and as a collective.
Winterfest and Snowarama are huge contributors to the BC lions society for children with disabilities. We contribute Huge amounts of money, and can continue to do so. We have a wonderful face to show and be proud of for todays rider. We not only can be the media, but invite the media in for such events. The Telethon was happens each year for all to see. There are many ways we can reach out to the general public, and there are many riders who are making efforts to make our sport safer. We are good people, so I'm thinking we need to continue to invite media in till it starts swaying in our favor. This is why I started writing for SnoRiders and Joydigger. We can Be the media, we do have the power to shine the light on the good of our sport. Cat and mouse game. Remember it's not the Caribou, it's the agenda, the species of convenience. While we all get frustrated at the lack of fact justifying closures, we can still play the game and win. It takes all of us making an effort, but even the smallest effort will have impact when united.

 

[snowrideadventures]

The issue of land use affects all of us. If we stand together, we stand a much better shot of keeping areas open. Lets start by promoting the petitions in this thread, this is where we can make a difference.

https://www.snowandmud.com/snowmobile-chat-14/super-important-g-s-brohm-ridge-85930.html

 

[mareshow]

Not gonna publicly comment on another organization here. Don't need another S&M pizzing match.

^ This

Public perception of who we are is a big piece of the equation when it comes to political power. Again, coming back to clubs. A powerful voice, yes, but also a representation of who we are as individuals, and as a collective.
Winterfest and Snowarama are huge contributors to the BC lions society for children with disabilities. We contribute Huge amounts of money, and can continue to do so. We have a wonderful face to show and be proud of for todays rider. We not only can be the media, but invite the media in for such events. The Telethon was happens each year for all to see. There are many ways we can reach out to the general public, and there are many riders who are making efforts to make our sport safer. We are good people, so I'm thinking we need to continue to invite media in till it starts swaying in our favor. This is why I started writing for SnoRiders and Joydigger. We can Be the media, we do have the power to shine the light on the good of our sport. Cat and mouse game. Remember it's not the Caribou, it's the agenda, the species of convenience. While we all get frustrated at the lack of fact justifying closures, we can still play the game and win. It takes all of us making an effort, but even the smallest effort will have impact when united.

Unfortunately now a days its all about public perception. Often times with snowmobiling its the 10% that destroy the image for the 90%. While disagreeing and arguing on an internet forum won't solve the problems, it will make more people aware. Apathy is the killer here. I for one will refuse to be apathetic. I love this sport as many others on here do, so instead of just talking about it, lets change the way people see us and our sport. Change how we interact with each other, heck we can't even respect our fellow sledders for the brand of machine he rides (a personal decision). I'm glad there is diversity, diversity breeds innovation. That being said, when we as a group can rise together and fight these issues head on, that is when things will change.

So Moyiesledhead, MOMMA, depsnolvr, or anyone else who needs help with these issues, I am more than happy to lend my time and my skills to help out. So please let me know if you need help with anything.

 

[MOMMA]

^ This



Unfortunately now a days its all about public perception. Often times with snowmobiling its the 10% that destroy the image for the 90%. While disagreeing and arguing on an internet forum won't solve the problems, it will make more people aware. Apathy is the killer here. I for one will refuse to be apathetic. I love this sport as many others on here do, so instead of just talking about it, lets change the way people see us and our sport. Change how we interact with each other, heck we can't even respect our fellow sledders for the brand of machine he rides (a personal decision). I'm glad there is diversity, diversity breeds innovation. That being said, when we as a group can rise together and fight these issues head on, that is when things will change.

So Moyiesledhead, MOMMA, depsnolvr, or anyone else who needs help with these issues, I am more than happy to lend my time and my skills to help out. So please let me know if you need help with anything.

Biggest Hugs Mareshow!! thank you!!
Remember I am the media to some extent, and can document and profile all the wonderful efforts the people in our sport can do. I'm one person, but I can help write stories. Many of the stories I write are pro bono.. I want our to help our sport
I can write for your local papers, and perhaps be a presence in a larger forum in the near future.

Share showcase and document the efforts from the good people in our sport. I believe in us. We're going to make some good things happen.

Thank you thank you thank you Mareshow!

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

Is there a difference in effect between emailing and physical paper letters? I am with you, and will do my best to pitch in and rally the troops. If you'd like to talk on the phone pm me your number and we can formulate a plan.

I promise I'll give every effort to help you, your club and Prince George riders.

The nice thing about email is speed and a record that is easily forwarded. I used to send letters, but I noticed that the date on their reply letter would always be about 10 days old. So I switched to email.

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

Sorry to burst YamaDoopolCat's bubble but he is being a little over reactive. They may have some caribou problems in the Prince George area but not all of BC is affected. Fernie is good to go. There are no caribou in the area but they do have some closures in Kimberly and the Cranbrook area.

Actually ferniesnow I wasn't quite active enough.
In the beginning I was like some of the other posts on here that hope that common sense and fair play would rule the day. There is none of that in the rational behind caribou restriction areas.

We also have areas like Kakwa Park that have no caribou until late spring when they come back in on the south end, but most of the mountains of BC are now under caribou restrictions. If you are ignorant of the scale of what is going on in BC, you can google Mountain Caribou Restrictions and see for yourself.
I don't understand ferniesnow's comment about a bubble. Maybe it is because ferniesnow has retained his favorite riding areas while the rest of us lost over one million hectres of riding areas. It doesn't look like ferniesnow is going to help us bust the one million hectre bubble over our riding areas, but that is just the nature of why snowmobilers continue to lose areas. You don't hear about some bird club in Nelson telling an environmental club in Kimberly that they have lots of birds so they should not make a big deal about it. They join forces and start doing something about it.
Any lose of a snowmobile riding area is just another wedge trying to close the door to our recreation.
I hate to burst your bubble ferniesnow, but your area is not immune to what is happening to the rest of us.

 

[MOMMA]

The issue of land use affects all of us. If we stand together, we stand a much better shot of keeping areas open. Lets start by promoting the petitions in this thread, this is where we can make a difference.

https://www.snowandmud.com/snowmobile-chat-14/super-important-g-s-brohm-ridge-85930.htm

signed. Can you help us be a voice too Jorli, whatever you need I'm on it for you too.

 

[moyiesledhead]

what they forget is that crown land belong to the tax payer not the gov't

Sorry but, No......it doesn't.

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

i agree with a lot that has been said... but all motorized vehicle users have to unite... not just winter... quads, sxs and dirtbikers... everyone together we stand a chance... dirt bike and quads are slowly being pushed out of trail systems they created because hikers always win... with urban sprawl we are loosing a lot of riding areas... yes BC and Alberta are large places but i think the Gov't would love to keep everyone out if they could... privatize the forests and crown land and rent it out... that way compaines can police themselves and who enters... and the Gov't makes money without doing anything... what they forget is that crown land belong to the tax payer not the gov't... lets make sure they never forget that!!!!

Our snowmobile club in Prince George has been tempted a time or two over the years to join with the dirt club, but never saw this as a positive thing for snowmobiling. While there are some things in common that we make a common voice, the issues that seek to restrict each, are very different. The environment is a huge issue and there are far less impact by snowmobile. It is to the environmentalists advantage to tar us all with the same brush, so why let them do that? I always maintained that snowmobiling was a clean enough sport and big enough to only focus on winter sports without getting tangled up in what happens in the summertime.
While access has some common ideological aspects, the impact of each is too different to have common solutions.
Maybe if we had some big benifacture to kick in money to hire staff we could have a common office, but right now all we have is volunteers that only have a little time to donate to this. Those that do mud and snow could volunteer to work for each club, with the same results.

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

Public perception of who we are is a big piece of the equation when it comes to political power. Again, coming back to clubs. A powerful voice, yes, but also a representation of who we are as individuals, and as a collective.
Winterfest and Snowarama are huge contributors to the BC lions society for children with disabilities. We contribute Huge amounts of money, and can continue to do so. We have a wonderful face to show and be proud of for todays rider. We not only can be the media, but invite the media in for such events. The Telethon was happens each year for all to see. There are many ways we can reach out to the general public, and there are many riders who are making efforts to make our sport safer. We are good people, so I'm thinking we need to continue to invite media in till it starts swaying in our favor. This is why I started writing for SnoRiders and Joydigger. We can Be the media, we do have the power to shine the light on the good of our sport. Cat and mouse game. Remember it's not the Caribou, it's the agenda, the species of convenience. While we all get frustrated at the lack of fact justifying closures, we can still play the game and win. It takes all of us making an effort, but even the smallest effort will have impact when united.

I like your spirit and there is absolutely nothing wrong with what you are doing and the public credit you are building for our sport. Hopefully you can parlay that into something one day.
The media has been very reasonable with our club in PG, and I have been a spokesman on TV and radio quite a few times. I would just as soon not be on radio and TV, but someone has to do it. Just like this blog, I need to reach out to as many snowmobilers as possible that will use their power, as a regular person, to ask the Minister of the Environment, why are the Mountain Caribou Restrictions still in place? Why are the caribou being isolated for the wolves to eat? How much money has been wasted with no results to show for the caribou population? Why has the MoE never asked the snowmobile community for ideas on controlling the wolves? Why has the MoE taken an adversarial stand in relating to snowmobiling instead of using the community as a resource in caribou recovery?
I'm not making this stuff up. There was even a paper wrote by Micheal Simpson for his final university practicum on Conflict Analysis Management on how badly the snowmobile community was ran over by the government people in placing restrictions on snowmobile use in the Caribou Mountains. I emailed that paper to the current Minister of the Environment, but I received no comment on that.
If ferniesnow would like a copy, PM me your email address.

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

The issue of land use affects all of us. If we stand together, we stand a much better shot of keeping areas open. Lets start by promoting the petitions in this thread, this is where we can make a difference.

https://www.snowandmud.com/snowmobile-chat-14/super-important-g-s-brohm-ridge-85930.html

I went to the site and this is what I found

The public comment period regarding the Proponent's supplemental Application Information Requirements for the proposed Garibaldi at Squamish Project is open from December 8, 2013 to January 7, 2013.

Is it over, or has some nitwit put in the wrong dates?

 

[YamaDooPolCat]

Biggest Hugs Mareshow!! thank you!!
Remember I am the media to some extent, and can document and profile all the wonderful efforts the people in our sport can do. I'm one person, but I can help write stories. Many of the stories I write are pro bono.. I want our to help our sport
I can write for your local papers, and perhaps be a presence in a larger forum in the near future.

Share showcase and document the efforts from the good people in our sport. I believe in us. We're going to make some good things happen.

Thank you thank you thank you Mareshow!

Last year one of our local riders contacted one of the snowmobile magazines about the unfair snowmobile restrictions in BC, enacted under the guise of Mountain Caribou recovery. The magazine (I don't remember which now) asked for details and background. So being the most interested local government fighter, he passed on the magazines request to me. I responded, and that was the last we heard from them.