2018 Yamaha Sidewinder MTX 162 Build

[Xmrider163]

I have to ask but do you have flat spots on secondary rollers are they stockers? I did have to change mine and it was a common problem causing binding.

I inspected them before I left on the trip. All rolled fine and no flat spots. 2018’s didn’t have the secondary roller issues that the 2017’s did. I’ll try what KaneDog suggested remove spring and move the secondary in my hands. See what it’s doing.

I do have a very stiff spring in the secondary. And a higher finish rate on my primary spring then stock so the combination with lack of flyweight can also cause this binding correct? Adding either a steeper Helix or more primary weight should bring the clutches closer together and eliminate some torque issues?

 

[Lund]

My rollers went flat around 1000km, Yamaha sent me a new set supposedly updated. The part number of the old roller supersede to the new number.
so far I have nearly 800kms on the new roller and good.
I will let you know if they go sideways. TD has a high torque roller for the Winder but no one I know has tried them yet.

 

[canuck5]

A binding in the secondary causes it to rev like he said as it doesn’t fully downshift into the highest 1-1 gear ratio. My clutching knowledge is primary spring sets engagement it’s force that must be over come by flyweights. Primary flyweights and secondary helix angle affect rpm the most. The steeper the helix the faster you drop into secondary pulling rpm down, flyweights must overcome the centrifugal force in general heavier drags rpm down (profile can cause some other variables). Stiffer secondary spring create the initial side pressure on belt I too am running mine stiff think it’s the dalton black orange. Secondary comes apart very easy I’m guessing you know that I had to only minor clean mine up last year.

 

[Xmrider163]

A binding in the secondary causes it to rev like he said as it doesn’t fully downshift into the highest 1-1 gear ratio. My clutching knowledge is primary spring sets engagement it’s force that must be over come by flyweights. Primary flyweights and secondary helix angle affect rpm the most. The steeper the helix the faster you drop into secondary pulling rpm down, flyweights must overcome the centrifugal force in general heavier drags rpm down (profile can cause some other variables). Stiffer secondary spring create the initial side pressure on belt I too am running mine stiff think it’s the dalton black orange. Secondary comes apart very easy I’m guessing you know that I had to only minor clean mine up last year.

What do you think would be binding? Rollers? Spring?

2018’s had the new Yamaha rollers. I’m running an EPI Purple spring on 0-1 setting. I had the Dalton orange last season.

I’ll inspect the spring for binding marks it’s brand new 2 days on it.

 

[roughriders]

What do you think would be binding? Rollers? Spring?

2018’s had the new Yamaha rollers. I’m running an EPI Purple spring on 0-1 setting. I had the Dalton orange last season.

I’ll inspect the spring for binding marks it’s brand new 2 days on it.

i just inspected my rollers last night on a 18. seen one has a flat spot. will pull them off tonight ot inspect closer.

 

[Xmrider163]

i just inspected my rollers last night on a 18. seen one has a flat spot. will pull them off tonight ot inspect closer.

Mine were fine before the trip I made a point to check before/while it was apart.

 

[canuck5]

Had to watch your video again no doubt on the mid section of the climb you banging off rev limiter. But at the top you are not. So the difference I can see is your running epi purple and I’m running dalton black orange these are converted compression loads the epi spring is stronger at 2(1/4”) 100lbs and at 1(1/4”)159lbs the dalton is 1.92” 95lbs and 1.53” 114lbs so trying to keep it apples to apples I’m guessing your spring is just stronger keeping you higher in secondary longer? Might not actually be binding if your rollers are fine just a much stronger spring. I’m pretty sure we used to run that purple spring in the nytros.

 

[Xmrider163]

Had to watch your video again no doubt on the mid section of the climb you banging off rev limiter. But at the top you are not. So the difference I can see is your running epi purple and I’m running dalton black orange these are converted compression loads the epi spring is stronger at 2(1/4”) 100lbs and at 1(1/4”)159lbs the dalton is 1.92” 95lbs and 1.53” 114lbs so trying to keep it apples to apples I’m guessing your spring is just stronger keeping you higher in secondary longer? Might not actually be binding if your rollers are fine just a much stronger spring. I’m pretty sure we used to run that purple spring in the nytros.

I was and could bang the rev limiter all day anywhere on that hill I was feathering the top half so I didn’t. And I think adding more weight to lower rpm is where I’ll start simplest and easiest. I was at 9450 rpm when it’s not hitting. Feathering.

 

[kanedog]

What do you think would be binding? Rollers? Spring?

2018’s had the new Yamaha rollers. I’m running an EPI Purple spring on 0-1 setting. I had the Dalton orange last season.

I’ll inspect the spring for binding marks it’s brand new 2 days on it.

If one of the three secondary rollers are not touching the helix, this can cause binding.
When the power is applied to the secondary, the three rollers should be all rolling on the helix. If one roller is not touching the helix, the roller will be forced to roll on it. This will cause the shaft and sheaves to cock and then it will bind. It makes the secondary "stuck" and the primary is pulling, pulling, pulling up until the belt breaks.
The same goes for backshifting. If the clutch cocks and binds, it is again "stuck" and it won't backshift. This will cause heat, belt slippage and erotic rpm. Yes I said erotic but its erratic. Gotta make clutching fun!
I personally have seen 1 roller not in contact with the helix on both the 17 and 18 Winders. Both have clutch issues to this day.
This tells us that there may be a problem in the manufacturing of the clutch. The clutch components may not be squared up causing the binding.
Remove the clutch. Remove the clutch spring and reassemble. On your lap, operate the clutch and watch the three rollers to see if they contact the helix all the up and down. The clutch should operate smoothly and not hang up or bind.
A quick check can be done on the sled. Look at the secondary roller to see if it is contacting the helix. Then roll the sled an inch or two and check if the next roller is in contact and then do same for the third roller. If any are not in contact then there will be binding and you get to solve the issue on how to fix it. Which is kind of satisfying in a weird way. Well, it is to me anyway.
Yamaha clutches are the best out of all the brands by a long shot so I hope you get it sorted.
Hope that makes sense.

 

[Xmrider163]

If one of the three secondary rollers are not touching the helix, this can cause binding.
When the power is applied to the secondary, the three rollers should be all rolling on the helix. If one roller is not touching the helix, the roller will be forced to roll on it. This will cause the shaft and sheaves to cock and then it will bind. It makes the secondary "stuck" and the primary is pulling, pulling, pulling up until the belt breaks.
The same goes for backshifting. If the clutch cocks and binds, it is again "stuck" and it won't backshift. This will cause heat, belt slippage and erotic rpm. Yes I said erotic but its erratic. Gotta make clutching fun!
I personally have seen 1 roller not in contact with the helix on both the 17 and 18 Winders. Both have clutch issues to this day.
This tells us that there may be a problem in the manufacturing of the clutch. The clutch components may not be squared up causing the binding.
Remove the clutch. Remove the clutch spring and reassemble. On your lap, operate the clutch and watch the three rollers to see if they contact the helix all the up and down. The clutch should operate smoothly and not hang up or bind.
A quick check can be done on the sled. Look at the secondary roller to see if it is contacting the helix. Then roll the sled an inch or two and check if the next roller is in contact and then do same for the third roller. If any are not in contact then there will be binding and you get to solve the issue on how to fix it. Which is kind of satisfying in a weird way. Well, it is to me anyway.
Yamaha clutches are the best out of all the brands by a long shot so I hope you get it sorted.
Hope that makes sense.

Yep that was an issue I read about last year with the stock Helix/secondary. I swapped mine out early on even though the wear pattern on the helix where the roller contacts is even lengths/widths. And all 3 were contacting. I will however take the spring out and check for any binding of any kind and inspect the rollers, helix, spring again before the next trip out.


As for clutch heat after a few pulls I was able to hold my hand on both clutches so I do not believe slippage is in the equation. The RPM was constant and not up or down Erotic or Erratic haha. I believe I just do not have enough weight setup in the primary at the moment.

 

[06yamahaapex]

I wonder if anyone has tried a viper driven clutch on a sidewinder with the old style cam buttons. They were proven

 

[Lund]

The secondary imo appears to have a roller contact problem, is it a major issue well that depends. We have 4 SW and 2, including mine has one roller not contacting properly on a visual inspection, does this mean this is an issue at static position only and contact's properly when in use or is it truly a problem when in use also????. The other 2 winders are good.
NONE of the winders, including mine are experiencing clutch issues, mine is the only one on stock tune.
Also when the roller go flat, they seem to all go flat but not evenly.
I think a better roller would help.

 

[climbmax]

I wonder if anyone has tried a viper driven clutch on a sidewinder with the old style cam buttons. They were proven

………..

 

[Burns]

Maybe it was asked but did you felt pen mark the clutches to see if you were getting full shift out on both? My experience that will help target if there is a secondary or primary problem.

 

[Xmrider163]

Maybe it was asked but did you felt pen mark the clutches to see if you were getting full shift out on both? My experience that will help target if there is a secondary or primary problem.

Yes sir that’s going to be done aswell next ride. Chalking both clutches and checking.

 

[DaveB]

Just lurking and reading...don't mind me. "Back in the day" I would bring along an Infrared thermometer in my pocket...after a few pulls check both clutches. Generally the hotter one is the one greasing the belt. Back to wishing I had a sled again.....

 

[Xmrider163]

Just lurking and reading...don't mind me. "Back in the day" I would bring along an Infrared thermometer in my pocket...after a few pulls check both clutches. Generally the hotter one is the one greasing the belt. Back to wishing I had a sled again.....

Thank you, I was debating on picking up a heat gun to check and see. Never too late to go pickup a Sidewinder! 2019 model Blue/Yellow is a pretty nice unit!

 

[DRD]

Just lurking and reading...don't mind me. "Back in the day" I would bring along an Infrared thermometer in my pocket...after a few pulls check both clutches. Generally the hotter one is the one greasing the belt. Back to wishing I had a sled again.....

Yep, good old days watching you change ramps, rollers, arms, springs, helix, graphics etc. all the while hoping you didn't drop something in the pow.

 

[roughriders]

Just lurking and reading...don't mind me. "Back in the day" I would bring along an Infrared thermometer in my pocket...after a few pulls check both clutches. Generally the hotter one is the one greasing the belt. Back to wishing I had a sled again.....

yes works good, they are pretty acurate.

Xmrider163 i read you where going to run the qua70 , thats what im running with the 39 helix. seems to do alright. from what i could tell right around the 72mph track speed while climbing. need to fine tune the backshift a little better.

 

[Xmrider163]

yes works good, they are pretty acurate.

Xmrider163 i read you where going to run the qua70 , thats what im running with the 39 helix. seems to do alright. from what i could tell right around the 72mph track speed while climbing. need to fine tune the backshift a little better.

Yes sir that’s the setup I’ll be running next trip QA70’s ordered, 39 Yamaha Helix, EPI Purple spring with a stiffer Dalton 50-133 primary spring. I’m also going to install Hi-Torq secondary rollers aswell. Should be very close and hopefully make the clutches happy and myself. 72mph is 2mph more then I hoped for so sweet!