2009 Dragon`s DEAD

[Mikew5j]

I just talked to my dealer and my sled (09 800 Dragon) got the new flash dated for the 13th and a new ECU.... Looking forward to Valemount tomorrow!

By the way, I have been very happy with my dealer, Mountain Toys in Cochrane. Best to share good results as well!

I’ll be getting mine flashed early next week, but let us know how you make out.

Cycle Works has been good too. If you tell them you have plans for a trip, they will do everything they can to get the job done so you can ride. They rushed my sled to get the first flash done so I cold go to Revy. Then when my new exhaust pipe was on back order, they rummaged though the scrap bin to find a used pipe that was in better shape. They reinforced the heat shield, and put it in so I could ride.

 

[shakey]

issues with 800 s ;three things to note 'warm up engine ;make sure you understand your fuel type and setting of wires, check your oil consumption
talked to your dealer before you demand a reflash,(to much gossip )
reflash will retard timing eg, run richer and make less power. oil mixture is what i would check first , bore a scope clyinder walls and top of pistion
if its oil pump related warrenty does not reqiurer a reflash after rebuild done

 

[Mikew5j]

issues with 800 s ;three things to note 'warm up engine ;make sure you understand your fuel type and setting of wires, check your oil consumption
talked to your dealer before you demand a reflash,(to much gossip )
reflash will retard timing eg, run richer and make less power. oil mixture is what i would check first , bore a scope clyinder walls and top of pistion
if its oil pump related warrenty does not reqiurer a reflash after rebuild done

Those are good points, and certainly should be checked first. But despite having those items in check, these engines are still going down. It has been confirmed that from the factory the 800 midrange air /fuel mix is scary lean. The 01-26-09 update is better, but is still lean between 6000-6500 rpm. Is the underlying problem an issue with the fuel map, the transition between firing 2 and 4 injectors, excessive heat on the exhaust side of the piston because the exhaust valves are opening at the wrong time, bad voltage regulators scrambling the ECU, piston clearance (A vs AB), or something else? The reason there is a lot of gossip is because no one knows the answer yet and Polaris isn’t offering any information.

I haven’t had any problems with my sled yet (knock on wood), but I decided to get the 01-26-09 flash under warranty anyway. The reason I did that, and the reason I’m going the get the new flash next week, its that I want to do everything I can to prevent an engine failure. I would rather have retarded timing and less power than have my sled strand me on the top of a mountain. But to be honest, since the January flash, my sled gained 100-150 rpm on the top end, and is more lively overall. Hopefully Polaris gets it sorted out soon, but until then we need to work together (including dealers) and share information.

 

[Mikew5j]

I just talked to my dealer and my sled (09 800 Dragon) got the new flash dated for the 13th and a new ECU.... Looking forward to Valemount tomorrow!

By the way, I have been very happy with my dealer, Mountain Toys in Cochrane. Best to share good results as well!

Why did they give you a new ECU? Did the old one burn up?

 

[GRD]

Why did they give you a new ECU? Did the old one burn up?

The old one wouldn't talk to the new software (flash)... All is good now...

 

[Rucky]

Just in case anyone cares, my father just bought a 600 Shift 155 and Elk Island reflashed his as well. Ran good today!!! First ride. It's got balls for a 600!

 

[Mikew5j]

I talked to Cycle Works this morning. After some prodding, the service manager told me that they are playing with some new flashes from Polaris as some sort of R&D, but there is nothing new available to the general public. I guess they are installing the new flash on a couple of select sleds to see what happens. I get the feeling that the service guy was being honest, because it wasn’t until I mentioned what the mechanic had told me last week that the service guy reluctantly came clean.

GETR’DONE
If what the service guy said is true, I wonder what you got for a flash. You may be one of the ginny pigs. I hope your trip went well.

 

[BrosBeforeHos]

I talked to Cycle Works this morning. After some prodding, the service manager told me that they are playing with some new flashes from Polaris as some sort of R&D, but there is nothing new available to the general public. I guess they are installing the new flash on a couple of select sleds to see what happens. I get the feeling that the service guy was being honest, because it wasn’t until I mentioned what the mechanic had told me last week that the service guy reluctantly came clean.

GETR’DONE
If what the service guy said is true, I wonder what you got for a flash. You may be one of the ginny pigs. I hope your trip went well.

Mine blew up again. Talked to the dealer today. This is the story I'm being given......... He was down to their dealer meeting and was able to corner the engine engineer. He asked about the problems with the 800 motors. This is what the engineer told him they believe is the problem.....when you back off the throttle there is raw fuel getting into the exhaust pipe and reigniting back through the exhaust port and causing failures(detonation) on the exhaust side of the piston. The single ring design is not the problem, it is suppossed to have better clearances. Another problem was the rectangular ports with the straight edges (not rounded) they figure that the sharp edges are shaving off parts of the ring. My mechanic told the dealer to ask about this, being as they had seen this when they had mine apart the first time. So take it with a grain of salt or for what it's worth.....if any of this sounds wrong, don't shoot the messenger, I'm just trying to past along the information as I get it, since this seems to be tight lipped problem. Hope this helps.

 

[Mikew5j]

Mine blew up again. Talked to the dealer today. This is the story I'm being given......... He was down to their dealer meeting and was able to corner the engine engineer. He asked about the problems with the 800 motors. This is what the engineer told him they believe is the problem.....when you back off the throttle there is raw fuel getting into the exhaust pipe and reigniting back through the exhaust port and causing failures(detonation) on the exhaust side of the piston. The single ring design is not the problem, it is suppossed to have better clearances. Another problem was the rectangular ports with the straight edges (not rounded) they figure that the sharp edges are shaving off parts of the ring. My mechanic told the dealer to ask about this, being as they had seen this when they had mine apart the first time. So take it with a grain of salt or for what it's worth.....if any of this sounds wrong, don't shoot the messenger, I'm just trying to past along the information as I get it, since this seems to be tight lipped problem. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info. Just passing along what I hear as well.

 

[timbo]

I talked to Cycle Works this morning. After some prodding, the service manager told me that they are playing with some new flashes from Polaris as some sort of R&D, but there is nothing new available to the general public. I guess they are installing the new flash on a couple of select sleds to see what happens. I get the feeling that the service guy was being honest, because it wasn’t until I mentioned what the mechanic had told me last week that the service guy reluctantly came clean.

GETR’DONE
If what the service guy said is true, I wonder what you got for a flash. You may be one of the ginny pigs. I hope your trip went well.

which cycle works,south or west? was riding sat with 2 demos from south side,nothing was said about testing! by end of day the assault 800 was getting hard to start,who knows??

 

[Scotford]

Well guys have 680miles on the 09 800 163"... the first 300miles had the lean spot at mid range... have the Jan.26 flash... just put another 380miles on the last weekend and the freaking thing ran awsome... have noticed more pull with the flash and with the MTX clutch kit pulling 8150 in the steep and deep with no probs.... even had a Xp try me on the fresh and could not get as close.... Just talked to my deal hyper toys, and there is another flash out that is suppose to add a little more.... Sorry for some of you all's bad luck but mine has be strong as ever and getting strong... also noticed getting better fuel milage with the flash... in 2' of frsh pow on the throttle all day put on 90miles and just added my 2.5 to be safe but did not need it..

Anyways mayne this helps maybe it does... was just sharing my story with my Dragon...

 

[Mikew5j]

which cycle works,south or west? was riding sat with 2 demos from south side,nothing was said about testing! by end of day the assault 800 was getting hard to start,who knows??

It was the south side CW.

 

[timbo]

service guys are good there,craig treats me great.

 

[timbo]

anyone heard any news on the 800s,seems like the 60 days have come and gone?

 

[polar sledhead]

Im just joining here, id like to see whats wrong , i got a 09 with 700 kms on it and ive had no problems yet touch wood , but if there s a fix id like to here about it so i can get mine in before next year ,

 

[Mikew5j]

anyone heard any news on the 800s,seems like the 60 days have come and gone?

Haven’t heard anything at all. Something should be coming soon. Polaris has got be gearing up for the 2010 production by now. I hope we can get things fixed before the fall. I want to do some mods (SLP pipe, PC3), but I’m not spending a dime on this sled until after they do the recall. I already finished mods to my wife’s Phazer. Now I need something else to work on to pass the summer boredom.:d

 

[timbo]

I here ya,right now I'm dooin body mods last trip was rough.lol
Checked lot's of sites no new news.

 

[Mikew5j]

FYI. This poster has been on American Snowmobiler forum for a while, and the other members seem to have a high regard for him. I decided to repeat his post here, as the information may be some what credible.

JUNE 2, 2009 UPDATE FROM WILLE ON AMSNOW, SERVICE MANAGER @ POLARIS DEALER IN CANADA


Polaris don't tell us yet which part we will have to change on the 09 800 CFI. The only thing we know, is that the new kit had been validated on dyno, on Polaris track and in the trail on customer sleds (few). The service bulletin will be publish in September 2009. Don't expect to get news before then. The new kits have a pretty good durability, the fuel economy is in the average and the HP and performance are there. THAT'S ALL I KNOW NOW. thanks

Polaris parts and service manager
JG Busque inc.
Saint-Georges, QC
Canada

 

[ZRrrr]

Interesting thread.

I know that when Black Magic Motorsports closed their doors, Rory (An Arctic Cat God!) who was their development/dyno guru, got hired by Polaris. Rory's brother already worked for Polaris in the fuel system development division. With Rory on board he was given the job of improving the mapping and getting rid of the crossover issues. Last I heard Polaris had Rory, his bro, and the entire fuel system division testing and riding like crazy. Couldn't even get a hold of Rory by any means. They were basically living in the mountains riding
and testing. Only thing that stopped them was the snow disappearing. So much work was put into "fixing" the bugs I am sure they have come up with something. Rory is amazing with this sort of stuff....I will be happy to see him come back to supporting Cat when he opens his own shop.

 

[Mikew5j]

Here is the latest from the same source as my post above. Apparently Polaris will make an announcement on July 15th. We will know the results of their testing and what components will be replaced on 08 and 09 800 CFI engines. In mid August a service bulletin will be released and parts will be available, if the EPA approval is completed by then. The wait may be almost over.