Double edged sword here I think....... I wont seld with someone that doesnt have a beacon...At that point its not only thier own lives they are putting in jepordy as if something DOES unfortunatly happen.....They have NO way of finding ANYBODY if by chance they are the remaining person not buried. On the other hand... The AVY bag.....Say the only person that DOESNT have one is at the one highmarking, Where that bag is actually functional..... And he or she sets off a slide... Everyone else at the bottom... Weather they are supposed to be there or not... Gets buried. If the guy highmarking would have had a bag on... And deployed it... Thoertically he should have been floated to the top... Therefore he would be able to start a search for the unfortunate people at the bottom where they weren't supposed to be! A personal jedgement call I guess... In my opinion if you can find the ANY means of lessining yourself as the one uner the snow...... EVERYBODY else has a better chance of survival. Just my two cents.
Would you sled with someone that doesn't have an avy bag?
- Thread starter ~Rowdy~
- Start date
0neoldfart
Active VIP Member
I'd certainly ride with someone without an avy bag - I did purchase two recently, though. My reasons for purchase were the natural "terrain traps" enroute up the mountain. I do NOT have AST 1, not saying it isn't recommended, but I do see a lot of AST 1 certified riders put themselves in harm's way, as do people with avy backpacks - not sure how education and safety gear makes one bulletproof...
That said, I do plan to take an AST course prior to winter (as will my wife). I can honestly say that neither the avy bag nor the course will change our riding habits or areas though...after spending the past 22 years riding in the backcountry I still don't take unecessary risks, and my trusy shovel and probe (along with watching weather patterns and avy bulletins) haven't let me down yet.
That said, I do plan to take an AST course prior to winter (as will my wife). I can honestly say that neither the avy bag nor the course will change our riding habits or areas though...after spending the past 22 years riding in the backcountry I still don't take unecessary risks, and my trusy shovel and probe (along with watching weather patterns and avy bulletins) haven't let me down yet.
OOC ZigZag
Active VIP Member
i find it hard to believe that a weekend warrior is going to kick my azz lol and yes i probe uphilland if u knew anything about "probes" they dont come 10m long 0.o
Yah yah yah yah you must have a huge keyboard. You couldn't have picked a better handle DICK.
RXN
Active VIP Member
No issues there, as far as I'm concerned, as long as they ride with a beacon, shovel, and probes, their good to go. I don't ride with an Avy bag, but then I'm also not a high marker.
OOC ZigZag
Active VIP Member
Sorry man started fighting a battle of wit with an unarmed fella like yourself. I should have said huge keyboard and little dick.
OOC ZigZag
Active VIP Member
Guess the person with the bag shouldn't be pullin a HM without takin a look and making sure no ones in harms way should it happen to go. Lots of terrain to choose from and doing HM's doesn't take a whole bunch of skill was one of the first things we did riding with Tomatoe Tom 25 yrs ago at the Sodas down Fernie way, We were dooing it to break trail to summit the middle sister. I feel I have accomplished alot more on a steep tree run up or down and me and the ride make it through without breakin anything. On another topic yeehaw escape from Wapa traz today pardon from the Kearl Penn.
pano-dude
Active VIP Member
funny i don't see anywhere that I said I can say the snow is 100% safe.... but I do rely on my brain and make my terrain choices based on what I see and feel in the snow.
When I am ski touring I spend an average of 3hrs going up, compare this to a sledder who spends 45- 60seconds climbing. I get a pretty good idea of whats going on.
pano-dude
Active VIP Member
imdoo'n
Active VIP Member
i personnaly have no problem riding with someone who has no avi equipment or avi bag, i have a spare beacon and will offer it. i just tell anyone without the equipment that if they are caught, i'm not going to waste my time looking for them. just call search and rescue.
i wear the gear because i like living, and when the snow is unstable i'll stay home, or stay off the steep stuff. i find it funny, all the self rightious comments posted.
i wear the gear because i like living, and when the snow is unstable i'll stay home, or stay off the steep stuff. i find it funny, all the self rightious comments posted.
- Thread starter
- #130
If you like living you wouldn't ride with people without the beacon, probe and shovel at the minimum. Remember, you can't dig yourself out. It's the people you ride with that are going to be looking for you.
imdoo'n
Active VIP Member
very few ride without beacons, some of the new people will. you seem to be preaching to the wrong person. if the last guy/gal in the group is the only one left, your already to late, i like to see everyone have the equipment, but i'm not going to sit here and say i won't ride with any one without the gear, as i'm not going to climb on that high horse. i think if the guy lacking the experice and gear, can get some help, direction and can have a good experience they will get the gear, maybe not with some of the condesening attitude that some like to display. make it fun, help someone get a pleasureable experience, keep them safe, u may end up with a new found riding partner. otherwise, you may as well just tell them to f off, as your just to perfect. you have to srart somewhere.
- Thread starter
- #132
Taking a person riding that doesn't have a beacon, probe and shovel is basically promoting stupidity. I don't think it's condescending at all to say I won't ride with a person without those three VERY BASIC pieces of equipment. Because, that is MY life that is affected. I could care less if they want to get buried and never found, but I sure as heck want to have the people in my group able to find me with those pieces of equipment should anything go wrong.
Not riding with someone that doesn't have an avy bag is completely different. That's a piece of equipment for personal gain, and it doesn't affect ME directly. Well...maybe if they have a hot shot attitude, but it pretty much just ups a persons personal survival rate. If I get buried, their avy pack isn't going to do $hit to help find me, but a beacon, probe and shovel will.
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imdoo'n
Active VIP Member
i agree, generally we don't get into the dangerous areas with new riders, but occasionally u have no choice. but to say you'd never ride with someone without the gear is a little condescending, but that is your choice, i suggest gear and training, but i won't mount that high of a horse to say i won't ride with someone, unless they are unsafe in there riding abilities. everyone has to start somewhere, unless you don't want new people to learn the ropes.
- Thread starter
- #134
I was new just 3 years ago. You know what I did? Bought the right f**king equipment for the sport I wanted to get into. AND ensured I had AST1 and knew how to use my $hit.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. But to me, beacon, probe and shovel are like having a hockey player go out without his helmet. F**king stupid...
JaySimon
Active VIP Member
Going to have to agree. When I started getting into backcountry skiing, I was leant a beacon probe shovel on the first day. Was told 'You only get one, if you like this, buy these items, and learn how to use em.'
Needless to say, I bought them a week later.
imdoo'n
Active VIP Member
i agree also, new people usually have no idea if they even like riding in mountain areas. i for one rode a few times without the gear, found i liked the riding so i bought the gear, got the avi training and the avi bag. i'm not an elitist and like to see new people enjoy the sport, but most people new to the sport, won't spend the money until they find they like it. i have no problem sharing my limited knowledge, as they may become a new riding member of the group, with just a little bit of encouragement. make it fun, keep them as safe as you can, they will usually get the gear.
- Thread starter
- #137
I should clarify. I don't care if they buy it but they have to have it. Bought, rented or borrowed its a must in my eyes. I've even doubled a few people and made them have it, and taught them how to use it. Pretty sure the rental is $20-50
imdoo'n
Active VIP Member
well i'm thinking we are talking pretty much the same thing, i lend an extra beacon and show how to use it, and will do a beacon search in the parking lot and in the alpine. usually you never find out about the missing equipment until your leaving the parking lot when you do a beacon check. at that point, do you tell them to go home?
- Thread starter
- #139
Absolutely. Or tell them to go rent. Always rental shops around. I'll wait while they go get a beacon.
imdoo'n
Active VIP Member
could be a long wait out at silent pass. and there is usually easier terrain to ride. but i must commend you on your resolve. me i'll just chose easier terrain. where the avi danger is minimal.
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