X-it
Active VIP Member
Tree riding is twice the fun.... at least after you do some adjusting.
Would you sled with someone that doesn't have an avy bag?
- Thread starter ~Rowdy~
- Start date
moyiesledhead
Active VIP Member
Yes, I would sled with someone that doesn't have an avy bag. I do it all the time. I ride with one because I choose to and can afford it. Not everyone can though. Doesn't mean they can't ride with me. 
OOC ZigZag
Active VIP Member
So you’ve been debating whether or not to get one of these new air bag pack things. Is the cost and the weight worth it? Are they dialed in enough to be reliable? Are the packs any good for backcountry skiing? Airplane travel? No one you know has one, so why take the plunge?
The statistics are there, and they demonstrate an amazing effectiveness at keeping an avalanche victim from being buried, which translates to a significantly greater chance of surviving. Documented accidents show a 97% survival rate of avalanche victims with an ABS airbag. I won’t go too into the science of how avalanche air bags work but basically they rely on the principle of inverse segregation. If you shake a bag full of sand and pebbles, the pebbles will rise to the surface as they have more volume than the sand grains (this also works with a bag of chips- the big ones work their way to the top). In avalanches, making yourself bigger can help keep you on the surface, and air bags do that by inflating a bag which increases your size. This is not a new concept and has been demonstrated for years in Europe to be very effective. Given the surprising statistics of survival using avalanche packs, I don’t think they can be ignored in the U.S. any longer. Fortunately, this change is beginning to happen with two U.S. companies making them and several ski patrols purchasing packs (Jackson Hole and Telluride, among others); now, individual users need to jump on board.
As opposed to an avalanche beacon which relies on disciplined friends to find you and is therefore a passive safety system, air bags are an active system that you can buy to increase your personal odds of survival. Skiers complain about the cost, but how many don’t flinch at dropping $1000 on new skis, boots, and bindings each season? What about snow tires? No one flinches at that piece of safety equipment. I think it’s time to set priorities and make air bag packs just as important as the beacon, shovel, probe combo (you’d actually be better off with just the air bag if you had to choose). After all, the chances of being dug up alive by your friends are actually not all that good. In a , 53% of people completely buried by avalanches did not survive, while only 4% of those who weren’t buried died. Your best bet is to stay on the surface, and an air bag provides a significantly better chance of that happening.
Below, I’ve tried to compile most of the meaningful info into one place, based on my experience with some of the packs over the last two years and the experiences of others here at Wildsnow. There is still a lot of confusion surrounding these things, so I’ll try to set some things straight. If I’ve missed something, made a mistake, or if you have something to add, please share it in a comment. This page will hopefully grow and change to become a useful resource. Also, it should go without saying that these packs are no substitute for practicing safe and informed backcountry travel decisions and are no excuse to increase acceptable risk levels.
The Choices
Currently, there are now five manufacturers of air bag backpacks and systems: ABS, the original German company; Snowpulse, the relatively new Swiss contender; , who introduced their pack last year out of Boulder, CO; Mystery Ranch, based out of Montana, who just announced their pack; and Avi Vest, who make a vest that is not compatible with a pack and therefore impractical for backcountry skiing, but are supplying their system to Mystery Ranch. In addition, Rossignol, , and make packs that are compatible with the ABS Vario system. All of this is awesome considering that not long ago ABS was the only option!
General Info
I’ll go into more depth with each brand later, but some general things to know are:
Use- All of the airbag packs have a handle located on one of the shoulder straps for activating the airbag. When in safe terrain, the handle can be stowed out of reach to avoid an accidental trigger (something to be wary of while bushwacking). When ready to ski, put the handle in the ready position, and if (God forbid) you need to use it, pull on the handle which causes a cartridge full of air to inflate the air bag. Venturi valves are ingeniously used to suck in more air into the bag than is actually in the air cartridge. In an avalanche, your body and air bag are subjected to tremendous forces, and in order for the back pack to not come off you in an avalanche, the pack hip belts use metal buckles, which are much more cumbersome than standard plastic buckles but are needed for strength. In addition, a leg or crotch loop is supplied to keep the pack from being pulled up over your head. This is a pain in the ass, but probably necessary, and the different manufacturers address it in varying elegant and not so elegant ways. After use, the bag needs to be deflated and repacked; it won’t work again until you get your cartridge refilled or if you carry a spare–which might be advisable for multi-day trips.
Have a nice day
The statistics are there, and they demonstrate an amazing effectiveness at keeping an avalanche victim from being buried, which translates to a significantly greater chance of surviving. Documented accidents show a 97% survival rate of avalanche victims with an ABS airbag. I won’t go too into the science of how avalanche air bags work but basically they rely on the principle of inverse segregation. If you shake a bag full of sand and pebbles, the pebbles will rise to the surface as they have more volume than the sand grains (this also works with a bag of chips- the big ones work their way to the top). In avalanches, making yourself bigger can help keep you on the surface, and air bags do that by inflating a bag which increases your size. This is not a new concept and has been demonstrated for years in Europe to be very effective. Given the surprising statistics of survival using avalanche packs, I don’t think they can be ignored in the U.S. any longer. Fortunately, this change is beginning to happen with two U.S. companies making them and several ski patrols purchasing packs (Jackson Hole and Telluride, among others); now, individual users need to jump on board.
As opposed to an avalanche beacon which relies on disciplined friends to find you and is therefore a passive safety system, air bags are an active system that you can buy to increase your personal odds of survival. Skiers complain about the cost, but how many don’t flinch at dropping $1000 on new skis, boots, and bindings each season? What about snow tires? No one flinches at that piece of safety equipment. I think it’s time to set priorities and make air bag packs just as important as the beacon, shovel, probe combo (you’d actually be better off with just the air bag if you had to choose). After all, the chances of being dug up alive by your friends are actually not all that good. In a , 53% of people completely buried by avalanches did not survive, while only 4% of those who weren’t buried died. Your best bet is to stay on the surface, and an air bag provides a significantly better chance of that happening.
Below, I’ve tried to compile most of the meaningful info into one place, based on my experience with some of the packs over the last two years and the experiences of others here at Wildsnow. There is still a lot of confusion surrounding these things, so I’ll try to set some things straight. If I’ve missed something, made a mistake, or if you have something to add, please share it in a comment. This page will hopefully grow and change to become a useful resource. Also, it should go without saying that these packs are no substitute for practicing safe and informed backcountry travel decisions and are no excuse to increase acceptable risk levels.
The Choices
Currently, there are now five manufacturers of air bag backpacks and systems: ABS, the original German company; Snowpulse, the relatively new Swiss contender; , who introduced their pack last year out of Boulder, CO; Mystery Ranch, based out of Montana, who just announced their pack; and Avi Vest, who make a vest that is not compatible with a pack and therefore impractical for backcountry skiing, but are supplying their system to Mystery Ranch. In addition, Rossignol, , and make packs that are compatible with the ABS Vario system. All of this is awesome considering that not long ago ABS was the only option!
General Info
I’ll go into more depth with each brand later, but some general things to know are:
Use- All of the airbag packs have a handle located on one of the shoulder straps for activating the airbag. When in safe terrain, the handle can be stowed out of reach to avoid an accidental trigger (something to be wary of while bushwacking). When ready to ski, put the handle in the ready position, and if (God forbid) you need to use it, pull on the handle which causes a cartridge full of air to inflate the air bag. Venturi valves are ingeniously used to suck in more air into the bag than is actually in the air cartridge. In an avalanche, your body and air bag are subjected to tremendous forces, and in order for the back pack to not come off you in an avalanche, the pack hip belts use metal buckles, which are much more cumbersome than standard plastic buckles but are needed for strength. In addition, a leg or crotch loop is supplied to keep the pack from being pulled up over your head. This is a pain in the ass, but probably necessary, and the different manufacturers address it in varying elegant and not so elegant ways. After use, the bag needs to be deflated and repacked; it won’t work again until you get your cartridge refilled or if you carry a spare–which might be advisable for multi-day trips.
Have a nice day
Rjjtcross8
Active VIP Member
I think one thing that makes this topic greatly debatable, is the fact that avalanche gear in general is something that is not required by law, policed, or something possibly not highly looked at by people not involved in our sport. I believe just that fact makes a topic like this be subject more to opinion, experience, and views. I will use work sites for examples, does your company policy require use of ppe? Or what about O,H and s? The two possible opinions on something like that would be either well I'm concerned about my safety or I want my paycheck so I wear the stuff. What about traffic law? We are required to wear seatbelts when operating a vehicle right? One person may say well it's about safety, the other may say well I wear it because I don't want a damn ticket? Where I'm heading with this is simply that if there was some kind of law in place that required back country users to require av gear I.e beacon,probe,shovel and lets just avy bags as well because that is what the topic is about. Would our views be different?
moyiesledhead
Active VIP Member
This is awesome! Why didn't somebody tell me about this sooner? Bye, bye Willy! 
Last edited:
Pistonbroke
Active VIP Member
This is awesome! Why didn't somebody tell me about this sooner? Bye, bye Willy!
View attachment 134675
Best. Feature. Ever.
etecheaven
Active VIP Member
i perfer to ride with those who get avy bags, but its not a must. My reason i perfer to ride with guys with bags, it is shows 2 things.
1. They are not cheap........they are not afraid to spend the money on gear that can save their lives even if it only increases your chances alittle bit. This transfers down to the beacon, shovel and probe which are the most important. I hate seeing guys with some old POS beacon they bought off KIJIJI for 50 bucks, that they dont give a ch!t about nor take the time to learn it. If someone spends 250 bucks on a beacon, most likey they take the time to learn the functions they spent all that extra money on.
2. Shows Attitude to the sport.....They take mountain riding serious enough to invest the money, and they are more willing to listen to the dangers of the day. Easier time getting guys to attend the AST courses.
Not saying this is true in all cases, as i know guys who have old gear and dont have bags that take mountain riding very serious, but if i dont know the guy that well, it does favor the better and helps me feel a bit more comfortable riding with them.
I ride with a snowpulse, and love the bag not only for its ability to save my life, but i have lots of storage and find the bag is high quality.
Finally after reading all the pages i have come to the conclusion that practice makes perfect. Im going home to pratice pulling it! over and over again. Pulling it should be second nature by time the snow flies.
Cheers
1. They are not cheap........they are not afraid to spend the money on gear that can save their lives even if it only increases your chances alittle bit. This transfers down to the beacon, shovel and probe which are the most important. I hate seeing guys with some old POS beacon they bought off KIJIJI for 50 bucks, that they dont give a ch!t about nor take the time to learn it. If someone spends 250 bucks on a beacon, most likey they take the time to learn the functions they spent all that extra money on.
2. Shows Attitude to the sport.....They take mountain riding serious enough to invest the money, and they are more willing to listen to the dangers of the day. Easier time getting guys to attend the AST courses.
Not saying this is true in all cases, as i know guys who have old gear and dont have bags that take mountain riding very serious, but if i dont know the guy that well, it does favor the better and helps me feel a bit more comfortable riding with them.
I ride with a snowpulse, and love the bag not only for its ability to save my life, but i have lots of storage and find the bag is high quality.
Finally after reading all the pages i have come to the conclusion that practice makes perfect. Im going home to pratice pulling it! over and over again.
Pulling it should be second nature by time the snow flies.Cheers
JaySimon
Active VIP Member
Im going home to pratice pulling it! over and over again.
I've been doing that all summer. Not so sure how it will help my sledding though.
ferniesnow
I'm doo-ing it!
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Im going home to pratice pulling it! over and over again.
Cheers
That just doesn't sound right.....
so does the air bag work if u avy off a 50' cliff and the snow from up top keeps pouring off and piling up on u ??? i like my beacon and friends
........................DOUCHE.........................................
Teth-Air
Active VIP Member
I said "your" risk not "the" risk. There is a difference. Sure more people and "the" risk of something bad happening increases but "your" risk should not increase unless the extra body has an impact on triggering more avalanches. As I stated, this person may just sit in the trees at the bottom of the hill and go for help if you mess up. Anyway I do ride with people without avy packs because most of the time the terraine does not warrant them.
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