Thanks for the response.. Where I am losing oil is in the reservoir for the supercharger. Didn't get to ride as much last season, but i noticed my supercharger reservoir kept going down. I checked for leaks and, none. So i started reading up on turbos and as much as I could find about these type of belt driven S/C's. Flutter happens when you have boost then drop off on the throttle quickly, no where for the built up pressure to go, so it goes back out where it came in, when the S/C slows down. I did install a BOV, and i have it set at 10 psi. The setup on my sled is producing 6-7 psi at 6500 rpm.. and my S/C has a lot of flutter, continously. until i start to pour on the juice. no problem at WOT. and sounds cool when the BOV goes off when i back off. It is just this flutter that happens at low rpm and losing oil in the reservoir.. Oh yeah, before I installed the BOV, i was peaking at almost 14 psi. Maybe I am doing something wrong, not sure.. I also installed an O2 sensor, upgraded one, can't remember the kind, and I am continually reading 14.7 and up. No matter what i do, or how i adjust my GEMS. It won't go blow that reading. especially in the midrange. My reading, WOT is about 13. thats not bad, still abit lean but liveable. Anyways, Thanks for the input.
supercharger information
- Thread starter Barry Barton
- Start date
Ah, that makes a bit more sense.
You don't want to be loosing charger oil, that stuff is expensive!
I used to get "flutter" before I installed my By-pass/BOV, even when I was only making 5psi. I also used to see 14psi spikes after dumping the throttle.
Have you got an overflow bottle for your reservoir? If it's pissing oil into the overflow bottle then I think your on the right track, your oil is likely getting hot due to no air by-pass at idle/low throttle. Is your intercooler getting hot? If it's not going into the overflow then you likely have a leak, maybe within the charger itself (oil into the compressor).
I'm currently set-up with 11psi pullies and my By-pass/BOV is set at 8 psi. Why not set your BOV at 8 psi - tight to the pressure you want to run? What BOV have you got? Is it tied into your vacuum ports on your throttle bodies? I've got MPI's By-pass/BOV which opens up on vacuum and over pressure so it eliminated the flutter at part throttle. I don't have any oil consumption, I've yet to see anything in the overflow bottle.
Something is wrong with your Air/Fuel readings. I would think if they were that high you'd be getting lean pops and would have real performance issues. If the readings are real then the motor is not long for this world. The only time I saw readings that high I had either a bad O2 sensor, bad GEMS, or bad GEMS settings. I'm under 12 at WOT, I have a bit of a mid range lean spot that might get to 12.5 and I'm fat at idle (and cannot seem to solve with GEMS settings). I ran an O2 sensor on my machine before boosting to see what the stock AFR were. At WOT my stock apex ran 11.3 steady.
Are you running race gas at all? I get about 500kms out of an O2 sensor if I'm running race gas and then it'll crap out and act just like your describing. I'd start with swapping the O2 sensor, as it's reasonably cheap @ $85, and then if that does not fix it then try another GEMS box ($250). Where is your O2 sensor installed? It's got a heating element in it and I've hear that if it gets sprayed by snow and cooled down it will not read properly.
If you don't have a by-passing BOV then I'd recommend MPI's, I'm happy with it.
I'll post up my GEMS settings, might be interesting as we're both running 8psi.
l8r shawn
You don't want to be loosing charger oil, that stuff is expensive!
I used to get "flutter" before I installed my By-pass/BOV, even when I was only making 5psi. I also used to see 14psi spikes after dumping the throttle.
Have you got an overflow bottle for your reservoir? If it's pissing oil into the overflow bottle then I think your on the right track, your oil is likely getting hot due to no air by-pass at idle/low throttle. Is your intercooler getting hot? If it's not going into the overflow then you likely have a leak, maybe within the charger itself (oil into the compressor).
I'm currently set-up with 11psi pullies and my By-pass/BOV is set at 8 psi. Why not set your BOV at 8 psi - tight to the pressure you want to run? What BOV have you got? Is it tied into your vacuum ports on your throttle bodies? I've got MPI's By-pass/BOV which opens up on vacuum and over pressure so it eliminated the flutter at part throttle. I don't have any oil consumption, I've yet to see anything in the overflow bottle.
Something is wrong with your Air/Fuel readings. I would think if they were that high you'd be getting lean pops and would have real performance issues. If the readings are real then the motor is not long for this world. The only time I saw readings that high I had either a bad O2 sensor, bad GEMS, or bad GEMS settings. I'm under 12 at WOT, I have a bit of a mid range lean spot that might get to 12.5 and I'm fat at idle (and cannot seem to solve with GEMS settings). I ran an O2 sensor on my machine before boosting to see what the stock AFR were. At WOT my stock apex ran 11.3 steady.
Are you running race gas at all? I get about 500kms out of an O2 sensor if I'm running race gas and then it'll crap out and act just like your describing. I'd start with swapping the O2 sensor, as it's reasonably cheap @ $85, and then if that does not fix it then try another GEMS box ($250). Where is your O2 sensor installed? It's got a heating element in it and I've hear that if it gets sprayed by snow and cooled down it will not read properly.
If you don't have a by-passing BOV then I'd recommend MPI's, I'm happy with it.
I'll post up my GEMS settings, might be interesting as we're both running 8psi.
l8r shawn
I have a similar set up to Shawn and get lots of chatter on throttle chop. I have ordered MPI's BOV (should be here today). I used theirs because it is a two sided valve that dumps on high vacuum signal ie when the throttle blades are closed. When I can't get race gas I use Torco octane boast. I have the same problem with my O2 sensor. I think it leaves a residue on the sensor which affects what it reads. It does seem to burn off after and operate as normal.
I will post once the BOV is installed
I will post once the BOV is installed
Shawn,
I just installed the MPI BOV and am gettering a little by pass below the 10 lbs spring setting. Can you tell me how many threads you have showing on your preload adjustment. I would like to get it close before I hit the snow.
Cheers
Jim
I just installed the MPI BOV and am gettering a little by pass below the 10 lbs spring setting. Can you tell me how many threads you have showing on your preload adjustment. I would like to get it close before I hit the snow.
Cheers
Jim
- Thread starter
- #28
Barry Barton
Active VIP Member
Call darren at e&s he will give u the numbers u need I just installed my sc on my apex I took it to e&s to just check my work out so I don't blow the engine, lots of money to loseif i missed something. Once u get the numbers just press the centre button and the the left or right button and when u stop it will go to the next stage set it and then continue. Some of the numbers will ask for 2.5 to do this two lights will flash at the same time so this means it's a half way between the numbers. Even if u don't finish all the stages the gems will go back to the begining so all u have to do is press the centre button sevral times to get to the stage u where at , u can also do this to check your numbers on all the stages by pressing the centre button, good luck
I've got two threads showing. It's set for 8psi...but to be honest I cannot remember which spring I have in. I've got both the 5psi and 10psi spring. I believe it's the 5psi spring as they sent me the Nytro kit initially and I had to order in the 10psi spring that comes in the Apex kit. My valve is closed 100% at idle, which I wouldn't expect, and it opens up at around 3500rpm. I think it closes up later on but it's hard to tell. I can definitely hear it when I dump the throttle. It should dump boost while you have vacuum and at over your max pressure setting.
Your at low elevation so your blower may be making more than 10psi. If you have the valve set for 10psi it will cap it there. Mine's set to cap it at 8psi and it does a good job of keeping at 8 from 3500ft - 7000ft.
Your at low elevation so your blower may be making more than 10psi. If you have the valve set for 10psi it will cap it there. Mine's set to cap it at 8psi and it does a good job of keeping at 8 from 3500ft - 7000ft.
Great thank you for the info. Mine is a ten pound spring and I was making about 13 PSI before I installed the BOV. Now my BOV seems to open before the boast reaches 10 lbs, its opening completely, just partially. I spoke to Matt at MPI on Friday and he indicated that the valve may require a few cycles to seat before they seal completely. I will update once I get a ride or two on it.
silver
New member
i have a 2008 apex mtn with a stage 1 supercharger mpi it has worked well off and on when it does its is worth the few headaches it has given me right now i am having an idle issue and when you hit the throttle it falls on its face has anyone had this problem would like some replys to narrow it down i run striaght vp race fuel and around 7-8 pounds boost my guess is mpi programmer anyone else have issues like this
moyiesledhead
Active VIP Member
Have you bypassed your TORS yet? Had to do that on my Nytro. Supercharger boost pressure tends to force the throttle open a bit when you start out and hold it there when you let go. Probably could get it with TORS adjustment, but it was just easier to disconnect. I wouldn't do that if you don't have/use a tether though.
silver
New member
i have not bypassed the tors yet they suggest not to is the only reason i have not this is the second fuel programmer i have went threw now i see people are saying to make sure u keep them dry new one is orderd agian it runs fine when programmer is uninstalled i will zip loc bag and seal new one now. what i dont understand is i have programmers in my sidexside and my atv and they love the water and never had an issue but mpi cant solve this in there fuel controller. anyone one else have any tips on a better box or can you only use mpi with an mpi supercharger
I keep my GEMS box under my cowling and have not had a problem yet. I have heard of guys running the boondocker box with success and Boost-it seems to work very well on all sorts of sleds. The MPI box is the cheapest by far though.
I had issues with TORS until I installed a BOV, no problems since.
What settings are you running on your GEMS?
I had issues with TORS until I installed a BOV, no problems since.
What settings are you running on your GEMS?
- Thread starter
- #36
Barry Barton
Active VIP Member
Hello again shawn back again tryed to sell my apex but everyyone wants it for free so i'm keeping it as my backup sled. Took the boost to 9psi and wow is not the word for the pull even with a shitty stock track. After reading some information on s/m and when I checked my weights darren from e&s took it from 71grams down to 61grams and it just sucked so when I read the information guys are running the set up he gave me was for a nytro so what I did is put the stock weights back in and took them up to 75.5grams at 9psi and it right on the money. I'm also running the stock 45degrees helix with a purple cat spring and the sled was pulling like a bitch on the hills but it would spin the hole way up a 300' hill so i'm not sure how it's going to do in deep snow and the sled kept the tack at 1100 just under the rev limiter but it would hit it every once in a while if I came onto it real hard but if I would come onto easy and then hit it it would rev at 1100 the hole way up the hill and put a smile on my face all day long. What type of setup are u running on your apex on the primary and the secondary because I thought u were having the same problem as I was having last year where the sled would fall on it's face every time u hit the deep snow or a'm I wrong.
Thanks Barry
I'm still running the same set-up, everything stock except for the primary weights. I've got Dalton adjustables. I've got a multiangle helix to try and a purple spring for the secondary to get more pre-load. I was crazy busy this fall so was not able to do any work on my sled. Just starting to whip it into shape. I've got my pullied for 10psi and the blow-off valve set for 8psi, it's a blast to ride! When I try the multiangle I'll let you know how it goes.
- Thread starter
- #38
Barry Barton
Active VIP Member
what type of two stage helix are u trying I would be interested and the group of guys that ride with my son and I are starting to ride in revelstoke. It would be fun to ride with another yamaha rider, we are trying to get to reve on the long weekend but everyone are booked full so we aren't sure what we are going to do yet.
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