Non Ethanol Premium Fuel Alberta and Western Canada

[Bnorth]

Do you think a shot starter will have enough to power to crank and light methanol at -10 around 8000 ft? Asking for a friend.......

Can a stator power a magneto ignition?

 

[NoBrakes!]

I always wondered why there's no ethanol/flex fuel sensor in all new fuel injected and direct injected vehicles... cant be that hard to map from factory and never have an issue?

 

[DaveB]

I always wondered why there's no ethanol/flex fuel sensor in all new fuel injected and direct injected vehicles... cant be that hard to map from factory and never have an issue?

Agree. Every popular vehicle in the early 2000’s had a “flex fuel” sticker….what happened?
On the same note, for all the computer crap/efi on every new sled and quad, what would a “flex fuel” setup actually add to the total cost?

 

[Pistonbroke]

Agree. Every popular vehicle in the early 2000’s had a “flex fuel” sticker….what happened?
On the same note, for all the computer crap/efi on every new sled and quad, what would a “flex fuel” setup actually add to the total cost?

Polaris has had an”Eth” setting factory stock for many years. You disconnect a labelled jumper to go from non-eth to eth, simple as pie.

 

[NoBrakes!]

But they make less power on the ethanol tune and run cooler… not what everyone wants… we want to gain from the tune

 

[ABMax24]

Polaris has had an”Eth” setting factory stock for many years. You disconnect a labelled jumper to go from non-eth to eth, simple as pie.

Only for 11 and 12 models. Every model year after the setting is accessed in the gauge.

 

[ABMax24]

I always wondered why there's no ethanol/flex fuel sensor in all new fuel injected and direct injected vehicles... cant be that hard to map from factory and never have an issue?

I thought lots of vehicles still are flex fuel, pretty sure the GM pickup V8's are. (at least the 2015 5.3 tune file I have in HPTuners is).

2 different ways to approach it, a $120 sensor in the fuel line that measures ethanol content, or calculate it using the MAF, injector pulse width, and O2 sensors (effectively just calculating AFR).

 

[oler1234]

But they make less power on the ethanol tune and run cooler… not what everyone wants… we want to gain from the tune

E85 in a sled with a CORRECT tune or fueling map should make more power. Charge cooling alone would be worth more let alone the fact e85 has a pretty high octane value. 100-110 typically

 

[mclean]

Burn up a tank a lot quicker though wouldn't ya. And you would need a bigger pump

 

[Rhodesie]

in a performance tune 30% more fuel is required for e85. bigger pump, high flow injectors. at wot you don't want any more than 10 psi drop in pressure and nothing higher than 80% duty cycle on the injectors. this is a v8 though.

 

[Caper11]

How does anyone know there is Ethanol in winter fuel in Canada without doing a test?
I know a person who did it in revy about 5-6 years ago and there was no Ethanol present in the fuel, any of it.


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[NoBrakes!]

I think its coming and that's what we need to get ahead of... use the stored power that's available. If it makes more power... will you need the throttle open as much to use more fuel?

 

[Caper11]

Ethanol makes more power, especially if the tune is designed for it. My brother mixes ethanol in his snow bike gas. That thing is a beast.


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[ABMax24]

Ethanol really is a crappy fuel for 2-strokes because almost all commercially available 2 stroke oils don't properly mix with ethanol. E10 seems to be working okay, but is still the reason almost all OEMs recommend no ethanol. E85 is totally different though.

Ideally a 4 stroke engine would be designed specifically for E85. Because it has a higher octane rating you can run more boost and/or compression. Would increase efficiency a little bit, but power also by a significant amount.

 

[NoBrakes!]

back to 4 stroke sleds we go lol

 

[lilduke]

Skidoo says 10% ethanol fuel is all good right on the fule cap...

 

[ABMax24]

Skidoo says 10% ethanol fuel is all good right on the fule cap...

Absolutely. Manual however says non-oxygenated fuels are preffered.

 

[NoBrakes!]

Absolutely. Manual however says non-oxygenated fuels are preffered.

I wonder why that is? I've heard of significant HP gains just using oxygenated fuels in other racing but in 4 stroke V8 applications.

 

[lilduke]

Absolutely. Manual however says non-oxygenated fuels are preffered.

Never ever have looked in the manual. Ill get back to you on that lol

 

[ABMax24]

I wonder why that is? I've heard of significant HP gains just using oxygenated fuels in other racing but in 4 stroke V8 applications.

Alcohols are hydroscopic, meaning they pickup water anywhere along the way, including the fuel stations tanks, which can allow that water to be pumped into vehicles being filled up.

Straight gasoline in hydrophobic, meaning water generally settles out, and as long as the gas station doesn't pump doesn't suck from the very bottom of the tank, you don't get water.

The other issue is lubrication. Ethanol inhibits the ability for 2-stroke oils to cling to metal surfaces in the engine, 10% seems to be okay, but anything more than that doesn't seem to be.

Oxygenate fuels (ethanol, methanol, nitromethane, etc) carry oxygen in the molecule. Great for HP, as they can burn more fuel with less air, but it also requires higher fuel flow. Putting E85 in a 2 stroke engine would certainly lead to a lean melt down if the engine was tuned for premium gasoline.

Nitromethane for example runs at 1.7:1 AFR. Which has caused some top fuel dragsters to hydrolock the engine if the fuelling gets a bit richer than intended.

Yes there is big HP gains to be had, but BRP and other OEMs are playing the CYA game with reliabily and warranty and don't recommend above 10% ethanol.