major oil spill into the red deer river

[Polarblu]

Because BC is not a sovereign state. It is a part of CANADA...just like Alberta and (dare I say it) Quebec. We use "your" lumber and you use "our" oil. (Quebec just gets free ch!t from all out taxes...not sure what they contribute). Because you are on a coast where trade due to shipping with other countries happens, doesn't mean you get to control the ports. Nice try....not gonna happen....well, until you become a sovereign nation. But I suspect the Canadian gov't will have something to say about that.

BC dosnt have to be a "sovereign" state to govern the use of land, there is not an eminent domiegn clause between provinces. BC can shut this down. The alberta oil will have to take another route period. The fishieries off the coast are to valuable to put at risk. I dont know the numbers on the Gross National Product that come out of fisheries but it is a huge part of this debate.

 

[Polarblu]

Can you give permission? Or is it CANADIAN land? Does it go through the sovereign state of Tom?

I believe 70 percent is owned by the crown and the rest private and native. The crown land is controlled by the provincial government. Kind of like BC putting a powerline through Alberta to Saskatchewan, you would be able to vote to let it go!!

 

[Polarblu]

Little to no benefit for BC? Umm, if the royalties/taxes collected help with Canada's financial situation does this not help BC??

Apparently flooding hundreds of miles river valley or clear cutting untold hectares of land is not a scar like a 100 meter wide cut line through the bush?
Would you drink out of the Columbia below Trail out of the Fraser where it enters the ocean? Get off your environmental soap box.

The flooding of the peace river will all be for BC, it's owned by "BC Hydro" do you see the connection? There is very little environmental impact, it is clean, and the jobs created will be for BC for the next 50 years. All BC gets out of the pipeline is initial construction roll offs and very little of operations. Most of everything will be Alberta companies coming in.

 

[imdoo'n]

BC dosnt have to be a "sovereign" state to govern the use of land, there is not an eminent domiegn clause between provinces. BC can shut this down. The alberta oil will have to take another route period. The fishieries off the coast are to valuable to put at risk. I dont know the numbers on the Gross National Product that come out of fisheries but it is a huge part of this debate.

hmm who sets the quotas, bc or Canada, i'm seeing you guys are concerned but i'm thinkin you need more info, as yer arguments are not that good. if ya don't want the pipeline i'm thinkin there are other routes, may be more expensive or the feds may just say it's going through. you need more info on pipelines, problems and benefits, if ya have valid arguments you'll be heard, so far your arguments are school kid stuff. i personally don't want the pipeline as i think Canada will benefit more if the crude is processed here, not in china. but i have less concern with a new pipeline than one 40 to 50 yrs old.

 

[Polarblu]

Attention BC : Some one has to pay the bills..........Once you vote in a NDP goverment we all know that will soon eliminate you from stepping up to the plate....
So whether you like it or not,the pipeline WILL cross BC.........If you have not been paying attention it is quite obvious that the feds have set the wheels in motion. (omnibus bill). Money talks and it may take a few bucks more to shush the crowds,but it will happen sooner or later.
After a few years of the NDP you will be either begging for pipeline jobs,or moving to Alberta anyways...........

The Feds have set the LNG plant in motion the crude pipe line is still a "pipe dream" The LNG plant will take 3 dollar Natural gas to 17 dollars. I dont know if you Albertans pay attention but Apache just announced it hit the big show that rivals the middle east in gas finds? It bigger than the horn river basin and the moteney shale put together!! Its clean the Chinese want it and the trees are already knocked down at the plant site....... The revenue from our LNG will hold BC in the money for many years. Plus allot of the Natural gas is it is "wet" which means it comes out with valuable condensate and oil, let alone the quality in the propane content, its not just pure methane.

 

[tex78]

BC can not survive on grow ops alone...

Mabe they could on grow ops and campground firewood.

sent from my htc

 

[Stompin Tom]

man you are a truck driver, you drive to edmonton for free, didn't think so. so why do you think the fuel gets to u for free. someone makes a living off delivering fuel to you. maybe you should be hauling fuel back to the bc folks back home for an extra 2cents / litre. hehe didn't think so. what ya doing in alberta if ya got such a hate on, can't see ndp helping out anyone in yer province. more than likely you'll be out of work real soon.

OK, then could you please explain the refinery that is within 10 miles of my house then?

Next, because I dont want a pipeline I have a huge hate on for Alberta? Mighty persumptious of you, but then again, by the tone of your posts, anybody who has a different opinion than you is an obvious enemy.

 

[Polarblu]

hmm who sets the quotas, bc or Canada, i'm seeing you guys are concerned but i'm thinkin you need more info, as yer arguments are not that good. if ya don't want the pipeline i'm thinkin there are other routes, may be more expensive or the feds may just say it's going through. you need more info on pipelines, problems and benefits, if ya have valid arguments you'll be heard, so far your arguments are school kid stuff. i personally don't want the pipeline as i think Canada will benefit more if the crude is processed here, not in china. but i have less concern with a new pipeline than one 40 to 50 yrs old.

And your facts are? The time since i went to school and you did are a bit different. The "feds" can not push this through, it's in the media, it's part of every political campaign, nobody can win an election if they advocate against the environment or the native lands. There is no way it will end up 50-50 in profits between the provinces, therefore its a "pipe dream". not going to happen!

 

[Stompin Tom]

hmm who sets the quotas, bc or Canada, i'm seeing you guys are concerned but i'm thinkin you need more info, as yer arguments are not that good. if ya don't want the pipeline i'm thinkin there are other routes, may be more expensive or the feds may just say it's going through. you need more info on pipelines, problems and benefits, if ya have valid arguments you'll be heard, so far your arguments are school kid stuff. i personally don't want the pipeline as i think Canada will benefit more if the crude is processed here, not in china. but i have less concern with a new pipeline than one 40 to 50 yrs old.

we need more education and our arguements are not that good? All you have done is throw insults, please educate us. Mud slinging doesnt do any good, just pisses people off, but your good at that, why try to actually debate?

Tell us, what do you know of the nothern inside passage? Do you know that there is NOWHERE in the world where they try to navigate a supertanker that is as narrow or has as many danger zones? There is a reason why super tankers were banned from the inside passage. It used to be the quickest way for tankers to get to Alaska but that was shut down many many years ago because of the dangers, now for the good of Alberta that should be reopened?

 

[Stompin Tom]

Kinder Morgan is also tripling the capacity of it's existing trans mountain pipeline to Vancouver........ never see any complaints about that yet. But I guess it already snuck it's way through years ago so it's okay. Mind you estimates put construction in 2016.

That said the one to Kitimat...... meh. I think they would personally be better off continuing to expand existing infrastructure to the Vancouver ports instead of bothering to fight with those in opposition.

Guess what, the pipeline already exists, and the Vancouver port is not on the inside passage, the dangers from supertankers are miniscule when compared. I also understand that the gears are in motion to expand or build a new pipeline to Chicago, but thats a darn long trip from there to China.

 

[Stompin Tom]

Mabe they could on grow ops and campground firewood.

sent from my htc

Its truly amazing how little most Albertains know about BC.

 

[frock]

Kinder Morgan is also tripling the capacity of it's existing trans mountain pipeline to Vancouver........ never see any complaints about that yet. But I guess it already snuck it's way through years ago so it's okay. Mind you estimates put construction in 2016.

That said the one to Kitimat...... meh. I think they would personally be better off continuing to expand existing infrastructure to the Vancouver ports instead of bothering to fight with those in opposition.

Supertankers in and out of Vancouver is far different than in and out of Kitimat. The waters getting to Kitimat are a lot more dangerous. I think that it is possible these days to build a pipeline that is going to be very, very safe, but I don't think that anybody can say that there will not be a tanker accident. It's not if, but when a tanker dumps its load into the ocean and ruins the west coast fishery.

On a side note, I was listening to the CBC radio news on the way home from town this afternoon and guess who just had an oilspill...................................................wait for it.......................................................... Enbridge. Certainly increased my faith in them .

 

[Polarblu]

Alberta pipeline spill releases 230,000 litres of heavy crude: Enbridge

This needs some review from you people for an Enbridge pipeline.

 

[Badass69]

Guess what, the pipeline already exists, and the Vancouver port is not on the inside passage, the dangers from supertankers are miniscule when compared. I also understand that the gears are in motion to expand or build a new pipeline to Chicago, but thats a darn long trip from there to China.

Did you not read what you quoted? No you didn't. I said I would like to see existing infrastructure expanded rather than fighting about Kitimat.

Yes I know the pipeline is already in place, and made the joke of somehow that makes it better right...... It's still crossing the rockies, and other interior ranges to go to a coastal port. No, it's not the inland dangerous port of Kitimat......... but your worry and entire arguement has more been focused on the crossing of the countryside in the first place.

So if Kinder Morgan blows a pipe it's somehow better than Enbridge......... Must be because the Morgan line crosses further away from your favorite hideaways so it doesn't matter......

 

[Badass69]

Supertankers in and out of Vancouver is far different than in and out of Kitimat. The waters getting to Kitimat are a lot more dangerous. I think that it is possible these days to build a pipeline that is going to be very, very safe, but I don't think that anybody can say that there will not be a tanker accident. It's not if, but when a tanker dumps its load into the ocean and ruins the west coast fishery.

On a side note, I was listening to the CBC radio news on the way home from town this afternoon and guess who just had an oilspill...................................................wait for it.......................................................... Enbridge. Certainly increased my faith in them .

Again........ read my post when you quote it....... Please, just read it! I am very much aware of the problems with the Kitimat port, and realistically don't like the plan that Enbridge has either.......

 

[Polarblu]

Killer Quote
!!!!Barter said. “This one is significant enough that we issued a news release on it.’

seriously said that to the news!!!!! Cause that says reliability all over it!!!!

This is the company that is asking for permission to pipe across BC.

 

[Stompin Tom]

Alberta pipeline spill releases 230,000 litres of heavy crude: Enbridge

This needs some review from you people for an Enbridge pipeline.

One of the concerns is the path the proposed pipeline takes across central BC. There is an exisiting natural gas line run by PNG for part of the route and it has had many problems with slides exposing the lines and causing ruptures. Im curious how Enbridge is designing their lines to resit landslides, obviously they have a plan, but how good is it?

a quote from the above story:

“If we believe the company needs to have additional equipment or needs to move faster in some responses, we’ll direct them to do that. We oversee; we don’t participate.”

Read more: Alberta pipeline spill releases 230,000 litres of heavy crude: Enbridge

I wonder how fast their response can be in the Coastal Mountain Range or somewhere in the Rocky's between Bear Lake and Grande Cache?
​

 

[Stompin Tom]

Did you not read what you quoted? No you didn't. I said I would like to see existing infrastructure expanded rather than fighting about Kitimat.

Yes I know the pipeline is already in place, and made the joke of somehow that makes it better right...... It's still crossing the rockies, and other interior ranges to go to a coastal port. No, it's not the inland dangerous port of Kitimat......... but your worry and entire arguement has more been focused on the crossing of the countryside in the first place.

So if Kinder Morgan blows a pipe it's somehow better than Enbridge......... Must be because the Morgan line crosses further away from your favorite hideaways so it doesn't matter......

Or maybe because the Kinder Morgan pipeline is already in place there is nothing we can do about it? I dont have the knowledge of the terrain they are in, but I do have extensive knowledge of the terrain that is proposed for this pipeline, its pretty dramatic ground. Maybe the Kinder line is in just as bad of ground, maybe not, I dont know so how can I comment on it?

Did I make a joke about Chicago or was I making a simple statement? Nothing like jumping to conclusions.

 

[Stompin Tom]

but your worry and entire arguement has more been focused on the crossing of the countryside in the first place.

I think maybe your reading comprehension needs some work. I have brought up 3 reasons why I am not in favor of the Enbridge project, 1st, the pipeline and its potential enviromental effects, 2nd the opening of the inside passage to super tankers and 3 the extreme low risk reward factor for the province of BC.

You obviously have chosen to ignore parts of my previous posts.

 

[Badass69]

No I have read all your posts, rolling my eyes the entire time with the me, me, me approach you have chosen to take. I do however believe that your comprehension is a little off with your statement because I said "has been more focused"........ Huh, last time I checked that means you have other opinions although not as near in the spotlight.

I also love your attacks......... Newsflash...... I don't agree with the Gateway line either. WHAT???????? An Albertan that doesn't agree........ my god!

However it has nothing to do with what you are squabbling about. I personally find the plan Enbridge has complicated and costly for no real benefit. They can just as easily build a line to run to Vancouver and avoid the inland port of Kitimat.......