Stompin Tom
Active VIP Member
Those statements prove to me that you have no idea what we have or what is going on here.
major oil spill into the red deer river
- Thread starter imdoo'n
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DaveB
Active VIP Member
You don't like that China is involved with Alberta (Canada) oil and gas? Where do you think YOUR bread and butter comes from?
RMK Junky
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Getting oil to market is going to happen no matter what. It's world demand that thrives an industry with very deep pockets. These pipelines will unfortunately go through, it's just a matter of time. The $$$$$$$$$$$ just hasn't hit the right hand yet. So in the mean time product is shipped via the pipeline on wheels. Wether it's in super-b tankers winding through the mountain passes with inexperienced drivers or on old and weathered rail road track with 30+ cars loaded with light crude, heavey oil, lpg, ngl, and other by products that are a danger to our all ready fragile enviroment and wildlife. And what do these rail and highway corridors mainly run parallel with ?? You got it ... rivers, streams, and lakes. One can't seem to win, it's either a pipeline below or above ground.
eclipse1966
Active VIP Member
although it is always good to see BC diversify lumber sales to other markets, the Chinese sales is for very low end, high volume lumber with extremely tight margins. Not something we can afford to buy jam with that bread and peanut butter 
frock
Active VIP Member
Everyone that is posting on this thread that is all for the pipeline has tried to address the concerns of the pipeline. I haven't seen any of you try to address the, what I think is, more important question of supertankers going through some of the most dangerous waters in the world and how the risks will be mitigated. There is a reason why tanker traffic hasn't been opened up through this area, it's too bloody risky.
DaveB
Active VIP Member
Justify it however you want...a simple Google search brings up the same numbers in a dozen news stories....29% of BC's lumber profits comes from China. 42% comes from the USA. Sales to China is up 1300% since 2003....this is measured in $$$ not # of "low end, high volume lumber".although it is always good to see BC diversify lumber sales to other markets, the Chinese sales is for very low end, high volume lumber with extremely tight margins. Not something we can afford to buy jam with that bread and peanut butter
eclipse1966
Active VIP Member
not trying to justify anything. The figures you mention thru google are percentage of sales not percentage of profits. I have attended several trade shows in BC with Chinese lumber buyers and the #1 complaint the BC mills have is that this is low grade low margin lumber going there primarily for construction (forms for concrete pouring) and packaging industry. On the other hand, timing is good as they have been taking a lot of the pine beetle kill. Anyway, no need to argue this point as the world has learned to depend more and more on the Chinese demand whether it is oil, mining or lumber. Unfortunately, that is where the future is for the time being. Even Vancouver and Vancouver Island real-estate are relying on the Chinese buyers.
tukernater
Active VIP Member
Yep pick your poison.
Sorry, didn't want to go down this road, but I just can't resist.
Canada Fuel Taxes by Province
| Alberta | 24.440¢ | GST |
| British Columbia | 36.533¢ | GST + Includes carbon tax of 5.56 ¢/L as of July 1, 2011 (scheduled to rise to 6.95 ¢/L on July 1, 2012). |
| Manitoba | 27.312¢ | GST Manitoba's PST does not apply to gasoline or diesel fuel. |
| New Brunswick | 37.600¢ | GST + PST |
| Newfoundland | 41.406¢ | GST + PST |
| Northwest Territories | 27.362¢ | GST |
| Nova Scotia | 41.795¢ | GST + PST |
| Ontario | 38.723¢ | GST + PST |
| Prince Edward Island | 31.390¢ | GST PST does not apply to gasoline or diesel fuel. Fuel tax is adjusted monthly and includes an amount equivalent to PEI's PST. The fuel tax is capped at 15.8% |
| Quebec | 42.271¢ | GST + QST of 14.5% is applied on top of sales amounts after the GST has been added. |
| Saskatchewan | 30.914¢ | GST PST does not apply to gasoline or diesel fuel. |
| Montreal | 44.098¢ | GST + PST + 1.5¢ Transit Tax. |
| Vancouver | 45.857¢ | GST + PST + 15¢ Transit Tax. Includes carbon tax of 5.56 ¢/L as of July 1, 2011 |
| Victoria | 40.077¢ | GST + PST + 3.5¢ Transit Tax. Includes carbon tax of 5.56 ¢/L as of July 1, 2011 |
| Yukon | 22.862¢ | GST + PST |
| Please note the above rates are meant as only guidelines of pump taxes and may not represent the full tax amount at the pump. Source: Compiled by GasBuddy Organization from various sources. |
I guess the higher fuel costs are all Alberta's fault, eh?Just curious, though, when did we start electing your gov't and setting the tax rates out there?
Just easier to blame someone else, I suppose.
- Thread starter
- #190
imdoo'n
Active VIP Member
seems stompin tom's point is mute, looks more like childish reasoning the more he posts.
- Thread starter
- #191
imdoo'n
Active VIP Member
you are right, but their is problems with everything, some more than others, a new pipeline following new regulations, and being monitored and inspected in a more timely fashion would likely be the choice of reasoning, and with the volumes transported it would be the best solution, and as previously stated, the pipe will go through somewhere. but i would still like to see it being processed here not overseas.
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Stompin Tom
Active VIP Member
excellent response, going to do wonders getting the people of BC to agree with your pipeline.
Stompin Tom
Active VIP Member
I have no problem with Alberta selling oil to the Chinese, all the power to you, but dont expect the people of BC to welcome a pipeline with open arms that has little to no benefit to us.
The lumber we sell to China has already been processed in BC, it was logged, hauled to the mill, processed in the mill, then hauled to port. Allot of economic stimulate. With the oil pipeline, virtually no economic stimulant, yet you want us to take the enviromental risk, in the build of the pipeline, in the threat of a spill and in the huge thread of supertankers through the notheren passage.
I have yet to see anywhere in this thread where somebody takes the time to show us why we should accept a pipeline. I hear you can get cheap chinese products, but wait, we already do, I hear we can get some quad trails, oh wait, we already have them. Why should we welcome this with open arms?
Stompin Tom
Active VIP Member
and your point is? you claim that BC will get fuel cheaper if there is a pipeline, I call bunk. We wont get it once cent cheaper. You can post all the charts you want, but its a red herring, no relevance to the point. We get taxed on the fuel we use, that wont change.
Let me ask you this, I was in Edmonton last week, gas in Edmonton, Edson and Hinton were around 1.10 to 1.13 per liter, here it is 1.33 per liter. That is 20 plus cents more than in Alberta, but according to your charts we are taxed 12 cents per liter more. Where does the other 8 cents go to? Oh yeah, the oil companies who want us to allow a pipe line. Thanks for the charts, you prove my point.
DaveB
Active VIP Member
Because BC is not a sovereign state. It is a part of CANADA...just like Alberta and (dare I say it) Quebec. We use "your" lumber and you use "our" oil. (Quebec just gets free ch!t from all out taxes...not sure what they contribute). Because you are on a coast where trade due to shipping with other countries happens, doesn't mean you get to control the ports. Nice try....not gonna happen....well, until you become a sovereign nation. But I suspect the Canadian gov't will have something to say about that.
- Moderator
- #196
Bogger
Bogger of the GBCA
although it is always good to see BC diversify lumber sales to other markets, the Chinese sales is for very low end, high volume lumber with extremely tight margins. Not something we can afford to buy jam with that bread and peanut butter
Considering China (1 country) accounts for 20% of the world population they will inevitably become everybodys bread & butter..... If the theory that people are the most valuable resource holds true than China fawked their way to the top of the food chain....
The shipping/tanker concerns I can understand but a while back this conversation was had and I did a little research on the rainbow pipeline and gathered numbers and calculated chit. I can't remember the #'s but the environmental impact of a pipeline (even including isolated, early detected, properly mitigated leaks) is much lower than the impact of trucking the same volume of product in terms of fossil fuel consumption, truck/trailer manufacture & maintenance, highway upgrades & maintenance, wildlife and human casualties as a result of traffic accidents, litter in the BC ditches from douchebag alberta truck drivers, oh and forest fires caused by cigarette butts from the aforementioned douchebags.... but in all seriousness if you look at the impact to the environment from a "global" standpoint a pipeline creates a much smaller footprint than other means of transporting product....
As a kid I was always told "if you dig any deeper you'll reach china" maybe we could drill a vertical pipeline as opposed to horizontal....
Stompin Tom
Active VIP Member
Let me ask you this question, this pipeline, is it going to be owned by the Government of Canada or will it be privately owned. That my friend is the difference.
ahh, I cant wait for you to start dealing the the native bands in this province, your in for a treat. The white men of BC will never have a say, the native situation will be your biggest problem. As I stated earlier, if I had a vote, it would be no.
DaveB
Active VIP Member
Let me ask you this question: do you own the land in question/ Or is it "Crown land"...IE: mine, yours, Harper's, and the natives?
Stompin Tom
Active VIP Member
I guess you cant answer my question, or are afraid to. Enbridge owns the pipeline, they are a private company, they do not have the right to build a pipeline here, they only have the right to ask for permission.
That my friend, is the difference.
