major oil spill into the red deer river

[Badass69]

I did. It's something like 140 kms at around 8 to 12 knots........ Thus the expectation of around 11-14 hours way to travel. Pretty sure that time differential eats up any difference to going to Vancouver.

 

[Pinner]

Another big spill, Elk Point this time. I heard this on the news this morning about the Sundre spill, there is only a shut off on one side of the river crossing... unbelievable, also the pipe hasn't been inspected since 2009. The pipeline companies are their own worst enemies. So thats 3 big spills this summer so far, Rainbow, Elk Point and Sundre.

 

[ferniesnow]

Pipeline spill east of Edmonton releases 230,000 litres of heavy crude: Enbridge


BY MARIAM IBRAHIM, POSTMEDIA NEWS JUNE 19, 2012



http://www.theprovince.com/business...itres+heavy+crude+Enbridge/6808925/story.html

Oil pipelines run near storage tanks at the Enbridge Inc. Cushing Terminal in Cushing, Oklahoma, U.S.

Photograph by: Bloomberg , edmontonjournal.com




EDMONTON - Cleanup is underway after an oil spill Monday along Enbridge’s Athabasca pipeline, southeast of Elk Point, the Alberta Energy Resources Conservation Board says.
The company estimates about 230,000 litres of heavy crude oil spilled from a pumping station along the surface pipeline about 24 kilometres southeast of Elk Point, the board said Tuesday. The estimate hasn’t yet been confirmed.
The spill was reported to the appropriate agencies on Monday, said ERCB spokesman Darin Barter.
“It does take some time to assess the site, get our field folks on-site, determine the extent of the spill, talk to the company and see what they estimate the volume at, and then we get forward to a news release,” Barter said. “This one is significant enough that we issued a news release on it.’
The pipeline has been shut in and the pumping station was isolated. No waterways were affected, Barter said.
“The oil has not affected either running or standing water,” he said.
He could not provide more detailed information on the terrain where the spill happened, but did say there’s no indication wildlife has been affected.
Front-line field inspectors with the ERCB arrived at the site Monday, he added.
“We’re on-site with our field surveillance (people) who have expertise in spill clean up in pipeline operations. Our pipeline operations folks will be on-site and ensuring the company takes every appropriate measure to clean up the oil off the ground,” Barter said.
“At the same time, we’ll start an investigation. Our incident investigators essentially go out there and they start measuring, taking pictures and doing what it is that investigators do that will formulate ultimately what exactly happened and if there’s enforcement action that’s required.”
It is up to Enbridge to pay for and complete the cleanup, he added.
“If we believe the company needs to have additional equipment or needs to move faster in some responses, we’ll direct them to do that. We oversee; we don’t participate.”
He said it’s too early to tell what caused the spill.
“At this point we don’t know what occurred. I’d be speculating if I said anything about what we thought it was.”
Barter wasn’t certain about the age of the pipeline, nor could he say where the oil originated from and where it was headed.
“Our priority right now is on spill response,” he said.
Enbridge did not immediately return calls for comment.
There were no reported injuries or evacuations because of the spill.







Read more:Elk Point pipeline spill releases 230,000 litres of heavy crude: Enbridge

 

[snoboy]

and your point is? you claim that BC will get fuel cheaper if there is a pipeline, I call bunk. We wont get it once cent cheaper. You can post all the charts you want, but its a red herring, no relevance to the point. We get taxed on the fuel we use, that wont change.

Let me ask you this, I was in Edmonton last week, gas in Edmonton, Edson and Hinton were around 1.10 to 1.13 per liter, here it is 1.33 per liter. That is 20 plus cents more than in Alberta, but according to your charts we are taxed 12 cents per liter more. Where does the other 8 cents go to? Oh yeah, the oil companies who want us to allow a pipe line. Thanks for the charts, you prove my point.

I paid ~$1.18, not unusual for prices to vary by 6-8cents between different areas within Alberta. We all get screwed at the pumps, BC isn't special in that regard. I'm saying that Canada's oil exports provide us all with cheaper fuel than what we'd be faced with without them, not arguing minor regional differences within the country. You could be paying $2.30/l, that's what I'm talking about.

Mentioning the chinamen constantly tells me you're mixing up debates, if you want to get philosophical or political about that it becomes a discussion about globalization and economic policy. Good topic, but I'm discussing the reality we live with today and that means China is now able to do what the Brits & Americans have been doing to us for decades.

You claim that BC receives no benefit from having the industry lay a pipeline, you can call bunk all you want and it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. For a businessman you seem to really struggle with scale larger than what you can see with your own two eyes. This is all pretty basic economics, has to be if I can understand it.

You don't fill up at CNRL stations, or Cenovus stations, for example. Your gasoline goes through a lot of hands between the well in Ab and you tank. Canada's oil, WCSB in particular, is expensive to produce, transport & in the case of heavy oil and oilsands expensive to refine into something useful. Canada, as a nation of 30 million people, simply can't afford to maintain our standard of living without oil exports. You'd pay a hell of lot more to fill up if we tried and those exports weren't subsidizing the price you pay, we all would - coast to coast.

Maybe if things had been done differently over the last 50 or 60 years it would be different now, but they didn't. Our wells are pricy to drill and complete with low relative production rates and we lack refining and processing capabilities, we need to sell on the open market to fund the E&P side. We needed those big oil companies financial backing to get our oil out of the ground, they wouldn't do it without making a profit. Rock and a hard place, but it was still cheaper than trying to do it ourselves or importing oil without production to export. Our production is different from Norway or Venezuela, apples and oranges.

I've already said a couple of times that I'm not convinced the rewards are worth the risks of a terminal at Kitimat, but the benefit of opening a new market to our crude to all Canadians, including a logger from BC, is there. Take a look at Canada's GDP breakdown, a majority of our exports are raw resources and go to the US, if their economy falters so do we. Without those exports generating revenue our cost of living suffers, we're not using BC lumber to build new houses or purchasing Ontarios manufactured goods and with the increased fuel costs associated we couldn't compete with Asia or Mexico as exporters of finished goods, or lumber maybe. The oil exports mean cheaper fuel relative to importing alone or producing and refining it ourselves, which also impacts internal trade since we're a pretty wide spread country and have to compete on a global scale for manufacturing. We don't want to work for $3/day and having a 60 cent dollar kills our purchasing power (really expensive toys), thus we need revenue from exports.

To sum it up - opening Asia as a market for oil helps reduce our reliance on the US economy and increases our exports. That means increased federal revenue, which means it takes less tax dollars to fund our programs and infrustructure needs. So, pipeline-increased exports-greater stability-less taxes-cheaper fuels for a logger in BC. There are alternatives, that may or may not be better for us in the long run, but as of right now all Canadians reap the benefits of our oil industry.

 

[imdoo'n]

I believe 70 percent is owned by the crown and the rest private and native. The crown land is controlled by the provincial government. Kind of like BC putting a powerline through Alberta to Saskatchewan, you would be able to vote to let it go!!

you have already voted, your voted in political rep will vote with there political party, so if you are against it, you'll have to express yer opinion to them, can't see any other vote process happening.

 

[imdoo'n]

And your facts are? The time since i went to school and you did are a bit different. The "feds" can not push this through, it's in the media, it's part of every political campaign, nobody can win an election if they advocate against the environment or the native lands. There is no way it will end up 50-50 in profits between the provinces, therefore its a "pipe dream". not going to happen!

it may or may not happen, i really have no idea, and i really don't care one way or the other. if there is money, in the end, they will find a way.

 

[imdoo'n]

we need more education and our arguements are not that good? All you have done is throw insults, please educate us. Mud slinging doesnt do any good, just pisses people off, but your good at that, why try to actually debate?

Tell us, what do you know of the nothern inside passage? Do you know that there is NOWHERE in the world where they try to navigate a supertanker that is as narrow or has as many danger zones? There is a reason why super tankers were banned from the inside passage. It used to be the quickest way for tankers to get to Alaska but that was shut down many many years ago because of the dangers, now for the good of Alberta that should be reopened?

hmm don't remember throwing any insults tom, seems a few bc posters have though, whats with that huh. and seems like so far i have been very fair, for the most part pipeline breaks are on old uninspected pipe, i can see new regs coming that will make pipelines safer, but yet you can have problems, as with anything man made.

so what ya want to debate?

 

[imdoo'n]

A comment to the Albertains on this site in general. I understand that you support this pipeline and have no reason to not support it, and I am not wasting my time trying to change your mind. But think of this, I am a business person, involved in logging, I am about as far as you can get from a Green Peace'er. Having said that my opinion on the proposed pipeline has changed 180 degrees in the past year. That seems to be a fairly common thing in the interior of BC. Now consider this, it appears we are about 10 months away from a majority NDP government, I dread that day, but it seem inevitable. With the strength of the Native Bands in BC, add in an NDP government, then let the Green Peace'er at it, and you have a darn big uphill task on your hands.

now something i agree with, the pipeline routing will be a hurdle allright, may get built may not, not really sure if anyone from alberta even cares about the pipeline, i know i don't, just telling ya they need stricter regs and inspections.

 

[imdoo'n]

excellent response, going to do wonders getting the people of BC to agree with your pipeline.

haha, when has it become my pipeline. here i thought it was going through bc, must be your pipeline now.

 

[imdoo'n]

and your point is? you claim that BC will get fuel cheaper if there is a pipeline, I call bunk. We wont get it once cent cheaper. You can post all the charts you want, but its a red herring, no relevance to the point. We get taxed on the fuel we use, that wont change.

Let me ask you this, I was in Edmonton last week, gas in Edmonton, Edson and Hinton were around 1.10 to 1.13 per liter, here it is 1.33 per liter. That is 20 plus cents more than in Alberta, but according to your charts we are taxed 12 cents per liter more. Where does the other 8 cents go to? Oh yeah, the oil companies who want us to allow a pipe line. Thanks for the charts, you prove my point.

haha, now you are definitely putting up a good arguement there tom. haha, not sure what yer point is, i'd say it takes cash to get it to your gas pumps.

 

[imdoo'n]

Ummmm we heat our houses with Natural gas..... Just sayin!?? Sheesh Tex!!!

now is that all of them, sure used to see a lot on propane , and firewood on the way by.

 

[imdoo'n]

Come on Tex!!????

i can see where tex is coming from what with a few of yer posts on this fine thread there blu. tex stirring the hornets nest again fugger.

 

[Stompin Tom]

now is that all of them, sure used to see a lot on propane , and firewood on the way by.

Natural Gas is most common, Electric heat 2nd, firewood is a secondary source for many of us, I myself have a woodstove which we use allot, I really enjoy its heat in the winter. Good ole' government is tying to regulate wood heat to make it harder and harder to use.

 

[Stompin Tom]

haha, now you are definitely putting up a good arguement there tom. haha, not sure what yer point is, i'd say it takes cash to get it to your gas pumps.

Refinery within 10 miles of my home as the crow flies. When questioned about fuel prices, there response is "dont talk to us, the price is set in Calgary"

 

[imdoo'n]

One of the concerns is the path the proposed pipeline takes across central BC. There is an exisiting natural gas line run by PNG for part of the route and it has had many problems with slides exposing the lines and causing ruptures. Im curious how Enbridge is designing their lines to resit landslides, obviously they have a plan, but how good is it?

a quote from the above story:

“If we believe the company needs to have additional equipment or needs to move faster in some responses, we’ll direct them to do that. We oversee; we don’t participate.”

Read more: Alberta pipeline spill releases 230,000 litres of heavy crude: Enbridge

I wonder how fast their response can be in the Coastal Mountain Range or somewhere in the Rocky's between Bear Lake and Grande Cache?
​

nice quote tom, maybe put it into context, yer quoting the eub, which is the government enforcement not embridge pipeline, again an old pipeline, get with the program, yer arguements are lame.

 

[Stompin Tom]

nice quote tom, maybe put it into context, yer quoting the eub, which is the government enforement not embridge pipeline, again an old pipeline, get with the program, yer arguements are lame.

sorry to disagree, I dont see it as lame. Obviously the quote is from the eub, my point is a possible concern with response time as well as the time to get equipment to the spill. I would like to see how they expect to get to the site in the midst of the coastal mountain range after a landslide?

 

[tukernater]

I Have a pellet stove,Lazy mans wood stove .Just saying

 

[imdoo'n]

Natural Gas is most common, Electric heat 2nd, firewood is a secondary source for many of us, I myself have a woodstove which we use allot, I really enjoy its heat in the winter. Good ole' government is tying to regulate wood heat to make it harder and harder to use.

pretty much like the rest of the country, we use what is cheap and convenient,

 

[imdoo'n]

I Have a pellet stove,Lazy mans wood stove .Just saying

personnally, i have and gas and wood heat, sure don't like to see money go up the chimmney as they say. hehe

 

[imdoo'n]

sorry to disagree, I dont see it as lame. Obviously the quote is from the eub, my point is a possible concern with response time as well as the time to get equipment to the spill. I would like to see how they expect to get to the site in the midst of the coastal mountain range after a landslide?

ok, i see, but your quote was not worded that way. overseeing and enforcement, that is what government regulation is all about, and i can tell ya it will be high if this pipe ever gets built. i'm thinking they are proposing this route as there best option, if it gets turned down they will go to option 2.