major oil spill into the red deer river

[rmk 800 144]

Does anyone here live on the reddeer river??


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[sumx54]

we should ask the SRD if it's ok to drive through the creeks or are they scared that we might get dead fish and beavers in our sxs and have our clothes covered in oil what a fu,;ing joke this provincial government is this province will not have any fresh drinking water after more pipelines burst and they let the fracking begin

The fracing???? Dude don't even go there with that Bullsh!t..

 

[JaySimon]

And a rig blow out. Thank goodness we're losing the environmental oversight, the oil companies will police themselves, not take the opportunity to line thier pockets.

 

[DaveB]

And a rig blow out. Thank goodness we're losing the environmental oversight, the oil companies will police themselves, not take the opportunity to line thier pockets.

Totally related I'm sure.
Look, to make an omlette, you have to break eggs. Drilling, producing, refining, and transporting fossil fuels is an inherently difficult, dangerous and risky business. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. Let those who do not rely on any aspect of this industry cast the first stone (or disparaging comment). Let those whole daily activities are 100% environmentally freindly preach to the rest of the world. Everyone can appreciate that a spill is ugly and environmentally damaging....you get it cleaned up and try to make sure it doesn't happen again...but guess what? IT WILL. Farmers dump millions of gallons of pesticides and herbicides onto the land every year...but you gotta eat, right? Loggers ruin millions of acres of treed lands, turning them into treeless deserts every year...but we need wood right?

 

[JaySimon]

Totally related I'm sure.
Look, to make an omlette, you have to break eggs. Drilling, producing, refining, and transporting fossil fuels is an inherently difficult, dangerous and risky business. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. Let those who do not rely on any aspect of this industry cast the first stone (or disparaging comment). Let those whole daily activities are 100% environmentally freindly preach to the rest of the world. Everyone can appreciate that a spill is ugly and environmentally damaging....you get it cleaned up and try to make sure it doesn't happen again...but guess what? IT WILL. Farmers dump millions of gallons of pesticides and herbicides onto the land every year...but you gotta eat, right? Loggers ruin millions of acres of treed lands, turning them into treeless deserts every year...but we need wood right?

I'm not saying we don't need, or could live without fossil fuels, I just feel that with the bank the oil companies are putting away, some more can be spent to minimize the risks of pipelining. Just because I use oil, doesn't mean I cannot feel that there should be more oversight on how the stuff comes from the ground and gets around. It needs to happen, but I would feel safer if there were more done to keep up these pipelines. Hell, it might even create more jobs.

And no, the pipeline burst and blowout are not related, but I suspect we will see more if companies are allowed to slack off a bit. Just one man's opinion.

 

[sumx54]

Seems like a lot of blame goes into the "big oil companies" they didn't own the pipeline, they don't own the rig that just blew out. They may own the end product but there is a lot of the small guys out there that are trying to make the buck by taking short cuts. I have worked for all the big oil companies in the completion and production of oil and gas for 20 years. In the past I have been a part of poor decisions that could of ended real bad for All The Deer In The Forest but not so much in the last 10 years. Shortcuts are not tolerated and the safety aspect has doubled. JMO

 

[frock]

Totally related I'm sure.
Look, to make an omlette, you have to break eggs. Drilling, producing, refining, and transporting fossil fuels is an inherently difficult, dangerous and risky business. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. Let those who do not rely on any aspect of this industry cast the first stone (or disparaging comment). Let those whole daily activities are 100% environmentally freindly preach to the rest of the world. Everyone can appreciate that a spill is ugly and environmentally damaging....you get it cleaned up and try to make sure it doesn't happen again...but guess what? IT WILL. Farmers dump millions of gallons of pesticides and herbicides onto the land every year...but you gotta eat, right? Loggers ruin millions of acres of treed lands, turning them into treeless deserts every year...but we need wood right?

I don't think anybody is saying we don't want oil, at least I'm not. On the contrary we need oil unless we make some massive fundamental changes in the way we live and do our day to day business and you and I know that isn't happening anytime soon. The main arguement here is that the provincial and federal governments are not doing there part to ensure that there is the least chance of something like this happening. Further to that the federal government is actually taking steps in this new budget to weaken this protection. The oil companies will not look after this issue if left to self-police, they are all about shareholder value and spending the least amount to get the job done.
Comparing the oil industry to other industries serves no purpose, "they are polluting so we can do it too". All the industries listed are guilty to some degree or another and will need to address this if we are to leave a planet for our children that they will be able to live on.

 

[eclipse1966]

well put!

I don't think anybody is saying we don't want oil, at least I'm not. On the contrary we need oil unless we make some massive fundamental changes in the way we live and do our day to day business and you and I know that isn't happening anytime soon. The main arguement here is that the provincial and federal governments are not doing there part to ensure that there is the least chance of something like this happening. Further to that the federal government is actually taking steps in this new budget to weaken this protection. The oil companies will not look after this issue if left to self-police, they are all about shareholder value and spending the least amount to get the job done.
Comparing the oil industry to other industries serves no purpose, "they are polluting so we can do it too". All the industries listed are guilty to some degree or another and will need to address this if we are to leave a planet for our children that they will be able to live on.

 

[underdog]

Does anyone here live on the reddeer river??


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I live a couple blocks from it, in Drumheller. Drive along side it everyday, to get to work.

 

[ferniesnow]

and one of the key thoughts, move forward and try not to let it happen again!

 

[Modman]

The oil companies will not look after this issue if left to self-police, they are all about shareholder value and spending the least .

The oil companies will never be allowed to self-police, neither will many other industries. Its funny how things go banana's in the aftermath of an "environmental catastrophy" due to the sensationalization of it by the media. Its super easy to report the facts you want and not the other 9/10ths of the story. I love how people think that oil companies would simply run aging infrastructure that was causing these types of spills everyday, if only they were allowed....... Many of you are forgetting the one critical component - OIL IS WORTH MORE IN THE PIPELINE THAN ON THE GROUND. Your product is worth nothing if it never makes it to market. You don't make a profit from "what you could have had".

I deal with the liability of spills in the upstream patch daily, and I can tell you no one wants a spill less than the "big bad oil company". Every spill that occurs is like a quadruple hit - they have paid to drill, pump and transport the oil that caused it, they paid to clean it up off the ground, and they lost the revenue from not selling the oil that spilled, then they have to deal with publicity. If they ran "expired" infrastructure and spilled half of what they produced, they'd be out of business quickly, even if they never cleaned a single drop of it off the ground. They still paid to drill and find it, and they would lose the revenue from not selling half their oil. They are in the business of making money, and share prices are driven by liability as well as profits. If you have aging infrastructure that is going to be a liability on the books, it will affect share prices, even if profits are high. Negative publicity also drops share prices. Spills are negative publicity. Look up BP's stock graph from the Gulf spill and see how the share price did. The inital hit to the stock was something like $20 Billion of its market capitalization.

And while the oil industry gets raked over the coals for a spill, how many folks here ride their quads through creeks, drive their boats on the lake, etc etc? Cumulatively to the environment, you probably do as much damage as an oil spill of this magnitude each year with soil erosion when quadding in a creek, overapplication of fertilizers to your lawn, pumping your bilge water into the lake, etc. This pipeline probably produced millions if not billions of litres of oil before it spilled a few thousand. So how much cumulative environmental impact does it have? If we want to leave the world a better place for future generations, we need to seriously look at all aspects of humanity's cumulative environmental impacts before condemning one industry for an event like this.

 

[Badass69]

The oil companies will never be allowed to self-police, neither will many other industries. Its funny how things go banana's in the aftermath of an "environmental catastrophy" due to the sensationalization of it by the media. Its super easy to report the facts you want and not the other 9/10ths of the story. I love how people think that oil companies would simply run aging infrastructure that was causing these types of spills everyday, if only they were allowed....... Many of you are forgetting the one critical component - OIL IS WORTH MORE IN THE PIPELINE THAN ON THE GROUND. Your product is worth nothing if it never makes it to market. You don't make a profit from "what you could have had".

I deal with the liability of spills in the upstream patch daily, and I can tell you no one wants a spill less than the "big bad oil company". Every spill that occurs is like a quadruple hit - they have paid to drill, pump and transport the oil that caused it, they paid to clean it up off the ground, and they lost the revenue from not selling the oil that spilled, then they have to deal with publicity. If they ran "expired" infrastructure and spilled half of what they produced, they'd be out of business quickly, even if they never cleaned a single drop of it off the ground. They still paid to drill and find it, and they would lose the revenue from not selling half their oil. They are in the business of making money, and share prices are driven by liability as well as profits. If you have aging infrastructure that is going to be a liability on the books, it will affect share prices, even if profits are high. Negative publicity also drops share prices. Spills are negative publicity. Look up BP's stock graph from the Gulf spill and see how the share price did. The inital hit to the stock was something like $20 Billion of its market capitalization.

And while the oil industry gets raked over the coals for a spill, how many folks here ride their quads through creeks, drive their boats on the lake, etc etc? Cumulatively to the environment, you probably do as much damage as an oil spill of this magnitude each year with soil erosion when quadding in a creek, overapplication of fertilizers to your lawn, pumping your bilge water into the lake, etc. This pipeline probably produced millions if not billions of litres of oil before it spilled a few thousand. So how much cumulative environmental impact does it have? If we want to leave the world a better place for future generations, we need to seriously look at all aspects of humanity's cumulative environmental impacts before condemning one industry for an event like this.

Thank you! A majority of people commenting have zero interaction with the industry beyond what they see in the media...... It's difficult to have an unbiased opionion on something you have limited knowledge of. I also liked the post showing that blaming the oil company is pitiful.... as mentioned the pipelines are independently owned and operated. This province is severely lacking in pipeline infrastructure for the demand pressure being put on by the end users. Construction and maintenance is limited by manpower....

Overall, very well put!

 

[eclipse1966]

For the record, overall I agree with Modman's comments but, regardless if you base your opinion from the media or your educated on the subject, we have a situation where a pipe line bursted and polluted the water. The condition of the pipe line is the responsibility of the company to ensure it is in good working condition and any excuse beyond that is just an excuse. Lack of manpower and infrastructure is not an answer imo.

Thank you! A majority of people commenting have zero interaction with the industry beyond what they see in the media...... It's difficult to have an unbiased opionion on something you have limited knowledge of. I also liked the post showing that blaming the oil company is pitiful.... as mentioned the pipelines are independently owned and operated. This province is severely lacking in pipeline infrastructure for the demand pressure being put on by the end users. Construction and maintenance is limited by manpower....

Overall, very well put!

 

[Badass69]

For the record, overall I agree with Modman's comments but, regardless if you base your opinion from the media or your educated on the subject, we have a situation where a pipe line bursted and polluted the water. The condition of the pipe line is the responsibility of the company to ensure it is in good working condition and any excuse beyond that is just an excuse. Lack of manpower and infrastructure is not an answer imo.

Neither is the expectation of perfection with zero failures....... No matter what safeguards are implemented, there will always be things that are missed, or things that are unexpected. It however can be minimized, which for the mostpart it is.

 

[eclipse1966]

Based on your comment (which I respect) I guess I have to rethink my support for the Gateway project. Unfortunately the path the proposed pipe line goes thru cannot afford an "opps" in the equation. Too much at stake for our future generations.

Neither is the expectation of perfection with zero failures....... No matter what safeguards are implemented, there will always be things that are missed, or things that are unexpected. It however can be minimized, which for the mostpart it is.

 

[rzrgade]

Our future generations risk their lives at a bus stop,a school,a job,an airplane flight ETC, ETC........If and when things go wrong in those situations which occaisoanally they do,do we stop using them...........??
Any spill is a bad deal,however it all boils down to what do we want to pay for 100% compliance and safty.......Like most things in life.

 

[imdoo'n]

Our future generations risk their lives at a bus stop,a school,a job,an airplane flight ETC, ETC........If and when things go wrong in those situations which occaisoanally they do,do we stop using them...........??
Any spill is a bad deal,however it all boils down to what do we want to pay for 100% compliance and safty.......Like most things in life.

so do u think a yearly pipeline inspection is enough, and sometimes that is every 2 to 3 years. any idea the last time trans canada has inspected there lines, other than a cathodic test, i think they still do the flyover though.

i agree that pipelines will break and have failures, but lets please try for zero failures. seems funny that a sour oil line pipe break has to be found by a farmer. be interesting if the farmer also was found dead.

the reason that the oil companies have gotten better over the years is all involved in there bottom line alright, they want to stay in the good books of the eub. period. there seems to be a few oil companies that have moved out of canada to find easier rules in other 3rd world countries.


if they were not forced to improve we would be back in the 60's. i find it funny anyone would say they do it voluntarily. hey u don't like it move hehe, now thats a gooder.

 

[imdoo'n]

i just typed fracing in google, very interesting read on shallow gas well fracing,


seems like people are finding, toulene and benzine in there water supply, seems this stuff doen't occur naturally in the environment. these solvents are used in the fracing industry, very interesting indeed.


this google thing is amazing, the info you can find.

 

[imdoo'n]

to be fair the claims are not proven, and a lawsuit is before the courts , involving Encana. also find that frac nation claims that nothing has been proven and that fracing is safe? they are also having a contest for the best one minute video about how much you love the oil industry. hmm. cool.

 

[imdoo'n]

Thank you! A majority of people commenting have zero interaction with the industry beyond what they see in the media...... It's difficult to have an unbiased opionion on something you have limited knowledge of. I also liked the post showing that blaming the oil company is pitiful.... as mentioned the pipelines are independently owned and operated. This province is severely lacking in pipeline infrastructure for the demand pressure being put on by the end users. Construction and maintenance is limited by manpower....

Overall, very well put!

what? i find that hard to believe. they sure seem to be able to hire someone when they need to build the pipelines, any time they need one. so far they haven't been forced to spend the money. that looks to be changing real soon though.