If you ride in BC please take this survey!

[ferniesnow]

........... It was put forth originally by a bunch of clubs......

............I am curious to hear what others think, as to why a bunch of clubs would suggest something like this?? My guess would be in hopes of increasing their funding, at the expense of others. Classic redistribution of wealth, and nothing more.

My understanding (and I could be wrong just a little bit) is that it came from the Sea to Sky and some of the riders (it didn't start with the clubs) out there thought that when one of their areas got rode out or they wanted to ride another area, they shouldn't have to pay the big bucks. Hence, the idea of PMP.

It is a sport where we pay to play. Wherever I go I buy a daily trail pass if they are collecting and it doesn't matter if it is Revy, Sicamous, or in the Sea to Sky. Yes, it costs me money but I am okay with that because I know how much it costs a club to operate with grooming, trails, and cabin maintenance. Someone mentioned earlier, is your ski pass good for anything else but one resort? You can buy a more expensive pass within the same company owned ski hills that allows you travel around but it is more expensive. The proposed fees are somewhere in the middle and with the "rogues" there will not be the same revenue that is generated now.

catinthehat brought up a great point about bad snow years and loss of revenue and then having to adjust a formula. I would like to think the formula would be adjusted equitably but there would always be those who would think otherwise. It is a work in progress and I would like to see something come from all the meetings and rhetoric that would work for everyone.

 

[pistoncontracting]

My understanding (and I could be wrong just a little bit) is that it came from the Sea to Sky and some of the riders (it didn't start with the clubs) out there thought that when one of their areas got rode out or they wanted to ride another area, they shouldn't have to pay the big bucks. Hence, the idea of PMP.

Shocker, but that's kinda what I thought.
No wonder norona is all for it.

Anyway, on a side note- what happens if someone is not a member of a club, and tells the nice girl collecting fees to shove it?? Is there really anything anyone can do aside from 'public shaming'??

 

[norona]

My understanding (and I could be wrong just a little bit) is that it came from the Sea to Sky and some of the riders (it didn't start with the clubs) out there thought that when one of their areas got rode out or they wanted to ride another area, they shouldn't have to pay the big bucks. Hence, the idea of PMP.

It is a sport where we pay to play. Wherever I go I buy a daily trail pass if they are collecting and it doesn't matter if it is Revy, Sicamous, or in the Sea to Sky. Yes, it costs me money but I am okay with that because I know how much it costs a club to operate with grooming, trails, and cabin maintenance. Someone mentioned earlier, is your ski pass good for anything else but one resort? You can buy a more expensive pass within the same company owned ski hills that allows you travel around but it is more expensive. The proposed fees are somewhere in the middle and with the "rogues" there will not be the same revenue that is generated now.

catinthehat brought up a great point about bad snow years and loss of revenue and then having to adjust a formula. I would like to think the formula would be adjusted equitably but there would always be those who would think otherwise. It is a work in progress and I would like to see something come from all the meetings and rhetoric that would work for everyone.

Actually most of the big mountain in the USA have reciprocal use in effect, one pass allows you to ride many different mountains, a model that has been used in Europe for a very long time and is used in BC now and will be even more utilized with Vail Resorts purchasing whistler. I don't think I am cheap and I am not for clubs losing money however I still think a province wide pass would have increased number, there for more money with each paying less. Instead of 100 club members paying 200, we have 200 club members paying 100, the amount is the same. There are also a ton of other ways to make money, lets not get caught in the poor mentality of clubs will die if we do this, resources always change and sometimes change is good and makes us make even more money.

 

[norona]

Shocker, but that's kinda what I thought.
No wonder norona is all for it.

Anyway, on a side note- what happens if someone is not a member of a club, and tells the nice girl collecting fees to shove it?? Is there really anything anyone can do aside from 'public shaming'??

Actually the lowest numbers to this survey were from the Sea 2 Sky. The important thing is to get the survey out, and then the people can decide. I think your pretty daft to think i could make something like this pass. I posted this as no one else did, so now there is an open discussion, which is alway great.

 

[pistoncontracting]

Actually the lowest numbers to this survey were from the Sea 2 Sky. The important thing is to get the survey out, and then the people can decide. I think your pretty daft to think i could make something like this pass. I posted this as no one else did, so now there is an open discussion, which is alway great.

The BCSF is looking at a BC Wide Snowmobile pass, this would be cheaper for everyone but collectively place more money in the hands of the BCSF since everyone would have to have one. Please fill in the survey for your voice to count...

Personally I think that you should have to have a decal, like along with registration, if your found without one, you get a huge fine, this way every sledder will have to have one, it collects money for the BCSF who does a huge amount of work for sledding in the province. it might not always help a guy out personally but it is generally for the greater good. I know lots of people have disagreed with differences along the way. I have raced at over 10 different sports at a high level and it is the same in every sport so it is not something special to snowmobiling. This is not about one thing, groomed trails, etc. It is about putting our snowmobile body in the best position to do the work many of us don't do and don't want to do. Yes some clubs will lose money in collecting fees but that energy will go into other exciting ways to generate cash and bigger clubs will have it easier to do so. We all have an opinion however I try to ask myself what would be best for the majority, that may not be exactly what i want but it will make things go easier. Thanks to all that have done the survey, regardless of what you think of the survey, it is not mine, thanks for participating, I am nearly the messenger to help get more people to take it. Sp thanks for taking the time to do so, every little bit we all do gets us a little closer to happiness! Cheers dave

Then the small club suffer....and the already have been, we see this in whistler, Brandywine is the biggest and brings in a lot of money, they deserve every penny they have as it is off the hard work of nelson and many others, however we are a province not little areas, working together is much better, now they could do something like a person could choose where a portion goes and that would give the users a choice on where they would like to see their portion go, so really some would say smaller clubs, others would say bigger clubs, but if everyone who rode a snowmobile contributed it would be a way larger pie to draw from, there are a lot of riders in the province who don't contribute at all and that sucks!

Ya, ...would be crazy to think you don't think one pass would be a great idea.

I will commend you on starting the thread though. It's likely far more telling as to the direction end users would like to go, then the survey. That survey is much like what our fearless leader brought out, on election reform. No matter how you fill it out, the people who presented the survey already know what they want the outcome to be. This thread however, lets you know what people REALLY think- something most governing bodies are afraid of.

I'm guessing to though- that's why the top brass both admitted to not browsing here very often...

 

[snopro]

Actually most of the big mountain in the USA have reciprocal use in effect, one pass allows you to ride many different mountains, a model that has been used in Europe for a very long time and is used in BC now and will be even more utilized with Vail Resorts purchasing whistler. I don't think I am cheap and I am not for clubs losing money however I still think a province wide pass would have increased number, there for more money with each paying less. Instead of 100 club members paying 200, we have 200 club members paying 100, the amount is the same. There are also a ton of other ways to make money, lets not get caught in the poor mentality of clubs will die if we do this, resources always change and sometimes change is good and makes us make even more money.

The last time someone told me change was good we ended up with Trudeau and Notley as heads of government. I hope you can understand our tentativeness. Lol.

 

[TROLLCAT]

Just a small idea have like 3 levels of province wide passes

bronze pass $100 and discount on daily trail passes .............. get the rebels in the loop

silver pass $(to be determined ) locals riders ride revy all winter long ,$100 of the fee goes the bcsf and the rest of the $ goes to revy sled club

gold pass $$$$$$$ ride away where all season long and the majority of the fee's go to there favorite riding areas

a $100 goes to bcsf from every pass

hope this makes sense

 

[pistoncontracting]

This is simply another way of redistributing the money through a central body. Yes, SOME will benefit. But it will cost the vast majority more.

A good alternative, would be members of clubs would get a discount for another area. Buy one, get another at 1/2 price sorta deal.

And/or do a package deal. Buy more then just a year at a time. That might help with a 'flood of cash'. Work a deal like that into the financing of new sleds... people lose all concept of cost when they finance things...

And then let clubs decide how much to give to BCSF.


There are so many BETTER options out there, then forcing people to do something that isn't going to work anyway,

 

[TROLLCAT]

This is simply another way of redistributing the money through a central body. Yes, SOME will benefit. But it will cost the vast majority more.

A good alternative, would be members of clubs would get a discount for another area. Buy one, get another at 1/2 price sorta deal.

And/or do a package deal. Buy more then just a year at a time. That might help with a 'flood of cash'. Work a deal like that into the financing of new sleds... people lose all concept of cost when they finance things...

And then let clubs decide how much to give to BCSF.


There are so many BETTER options out there, then forcing people to do something that isn't going to work anyway,

agree

 

[tex78]

My understanding (and I could be wrong just a little bit) is that it came from the Sea to Sky and some of the riders (it didn't start with the clubs) out there thought that when one of their areas got rode out or they wanted to ride another area, they shouldn't have to pay the big bucks. Hence, the idea of PMP.

It is a sport where we pay to play. Wherever I go I buy a daily trail pass if they are collecting and it doesn't matter if it is Revy, Sicamous, or in the Sea to Sky. Yes, it costs me money but I am okay with that because I know how much it costs a club to operate with grooming, trails, and cabin maintenance. Someone mentioned earlier, is your ski pass good for anything else but one resort? You can buy a more expensive pass within the same company owned ski hills that allows you travel around but it is more expensive. The proposed fees are somewhere in the middle and with the "rogues" there will not be the same revenue that is generated now.

catinthehat brought up a great point about bad snow years and loss of revenue and then having to adjust a formula. I would like to think the formula would be adjusted equitably but there would always be those who would think otherwise. It is a work in progress and I would like to see something come from all the meetings and rhetoric that would work for everyone.

One thing about the ski passes that can be used at say 4 or 5 different ski hills


They are all owned by the same owner, so that's how it works that way

sent while drinking tea's

 

[pistoncontracting]

Not like the BCSF folks are looking anyway, but why not hit up the manufacturers/dealers. Since everyone that snow checked likely already has all their avy gear, give them a $500 dollar credit for a few years worth of club memberships/vouchers.
It would be great advertising too.
A win for everyone, except the cheapskates and socialists

 

[TROLLCAT]

Not like the BCSF folks are looking anyway, but why not hit up the manufacturers/dealers. Since everyone that snow checked likely already has all their avy gear, give them a $500 dollar credit for a few years worth of club memberships/vouchers.
It would be great advertising too.
A win for everyone, except the cheapskates and socialists

bc would figger out how to tax it

 

[catinthehat]

Not like the BCSF folks are looking anyway, but why not hit up the manufacturers/dealers. Since everyone that snow checked likely already has all their avy gear, give them a $500 dollar credit for a few years worth of club memberships/vouchers.
It would be great advertising too.
A win for everyone, except the cheapskates and socialists

They would want their dollars spent representing the area/province where they do business which wouldn't help BCSF that much.

 

[moyiesledhead]

lets not get caught in the poor mentality of clubs will die if we do this,.

So you don't think this is important? Pretty fawking narrow minded. Our club is small. Around 30 members usually. Our membership is $50 per year. We get to keep half of that. If this proposal is passed and our membership becomes $150-$200 as proposed, our club will not survive as a BCSF club. No one will buy a membership at that price. But I guess you don't care about small clubs.

A good alternative, would be members of clubs would get a discount for another area. Buy one, get another at 1/2 price sorta deal.

A bit like that now. You only pay the BCSF portion once. Second club membership you only pay the club portion. Some clubs don't understand this very well, and it's a PITA to deal with in Silkstart, but it's the way it is.

 

[tex78]

So you don't think this is important? Pretty fawking narrow minded. Our club is small. Around 30 members usually. Our membership is $50 per year. We get to keep half of that. If this proposal is passed and our membership becomes $150-$200 as proposed, our club will not survive as a BCSF club. No one will buy a membership at that price. But I guess you don't care about small clubs.



A bit like that now. You only pay the BCSF portion once. Second club membership you only pay the club portion. Some clubs don't understand this very well, and it's a PITA to deal with in Silkstart, but it's the way it is.

Holy hell Dave is lowering himself to a douche bag status fast eh wow


Most clubs will not stay alive if any more money is taken, any less season pass members don't buy passes, like 100 bucks more a pass may infact drop numbers alot

And yes silk start sucks, they need to fix stuff and have the right prioritys

sent while drinking tea's

 

[bbtoys]

our club did not support the original proposal and we as a club can't afford to lose any of our income that we receive now. clubs will not have to fold if a vote is taken and it doesn't work in their budgets but it will most likely lead to having to leave the bcsf AGAIN. hoping the next proposal will be better than the last. leaving is not a good option.

 

[tex78]

our club did not support the original proposal and we as a club can't afford to lose any of our income that we receive now. clubs will not have to fold if a vote is taken and it doesn't work in their budgets but it will most likely lead to having to leave the bcsf AGAIN. hoping the next proposal will be better than the last. leaving is not a good option.

100 %

sent while drinking tea's

 

[norona]

So you don't think this is important? Pretty fawking narrow minded. Our club is small. Around 30 members usually. Our membership is $50 per year. We get to keep half of that. If this proposal is passed and our membership becomes $150-$200 as proposed, our club will not survive as a BCSF club. No one will buy a membership at that price. But I guess you don't care about small clubs.



A bit like that now. You only pay the BCSF portion once. Second club membership you only pay the club portion. Some clubs don't understand this very well, and it's a PITA to deal with in Silkstart, but it's the way it is.

Maybe my point was mistaken, I am actually more for the smaller clubs, and know they need more support. I belong to a small club of which I have bought a trail fee pass even though no one collected, I did this because I know they had no way to collect and need help. I don't pretend to know the answers at all but I can have an opinion and I know it may not be right, because I don't have all the answers but since grown adults can't talk with out resulting to name calling I will kindly leave the conversation. Have fun ridiculing others who want to help! This might be why lots of people don't belong to clubs. Happy Riding, Dave

 

[MarkCos]

Bcsf can go do a bottle drive for $$$ and beat it
lol
or just take pay cuts and no new sleds ��

 

[catinthehat]

Bcsf can go do a bottle drive for $$$ and beat it
lol
or just take pay cuts and no new sleds ��

The intent of the proposal is not to raise more money for the BCSF, it is to try and raise the number of members they represent when they deal with Government and the groups that would restrict what we are allowed to do and where we go. The money collected will go back out to the clubs based on a formula still being refined.