For those that don't carry a spot,inreach or sat phone why not?

[acesup800]

Why should S&R dictate a GMRS channel to use?

The other day when some folks I know were missing overnight and found the next morning S&R said they didn’t have the ability to use GMRS channels on their radios. So if they are not using a system that allows them to contact someone why have them dictate a channel to use? Maybe some SAR groups have GMRS/programable radios but it doesn’t sound like it’s a system worth implementing unless everyone can access it.

I am heavily involved in Emergency Response in my day to day employment. Right now in front of me I have a VHF radio with multiple channels, a hand held company UHF, another company UHF in the cradle to use for emergency calls and a CFD Motorola set to yet another emergency channel to liaison with Calgary Fire. This is arguably a billion dollar industry and they can’t get two or three systems to talk to each other. The idea of “just have a dedicated channel” for emergencies sounds great but it has a lot of hurdles, being a public unmonitored channel to start where everyone and anyone has access to so you can’t guarantee it’s only going to be those in need and those providing help using it is a large one. The fact that not everyone uses radios and not everyone would be aware of the channel is another, so you have a resource maybe wasted trying to make contact with someone who may or may not even be on that channel.

It’s great to get some discussion going but involve the local S&R groups in your area and ask them what they would want to see. At the end of the day it’s the backcountry and users shouldn’t have the expectation that someone is always coming to get them and I am not referring to any recent events but these people who are in these SAR groups will always do what they can and we should be the ones doing more to help them, not the other way around.

Who says dedicated? Pick a common GMRS, pick a common VHF, whatever. It would have to help. If I knew someone was lost out there, I would have our group change and monitor a "common channel". Can't hurt. I assume that the clubs are heavily involved when a rescue happens, so ensure SAR has the common radio channels covered. If it only works 50% of the time, well you just saved hours and hours of helicopter time.

If we as a group can't even organize this....

 

[0neoldfart]

I won’t be popular for this, but here goes: One can have every piece of safety equipment, every ounce of training and still be up sh&t creek without a paddle due to poor decision making. I see it often, where guys with AST1 and a year airbags temp fate on a regular basis, because they feel educated and bulletproof, I quit riding with a few simply because I’m not interested in putting myself at risk, or others in the group who may be less experienced. The fact is, Mother Nature can be a cruel bit#h, and one has to respect her, and KNOW your own limits. Don’t be “that” guy who takes unnecessary chances, ride smart so you can ride another day. None of the stuff we have today was available when I started ( including the awesome new iron that is more capable then full mod sleds from a few years ago). I tear down & inspect my iron regularly - as do the rest of the folk I ride with. The reason is to avoid breakdowns in the back country, and if something fails I’ll either limp it out (if possible), or heli it out if need be. Injuries can happen, so a good 1st aid kit and skills are needed. Also needed are winter survival skills. In short: plan for the worst, hope for the best, and use your head out there - I guarantee you that every cool sled video you see has a TON of resources behind the scenes, most times a helicopter is present. Common sense is the best asset available to you, radios / inreach / spot / airbags / sat phones are great assists, but you need to DEPEND on yourself and those you ride with 1st, so be prepared and go out with the mindset that SAR may not be there to bail you out...play safe.

 

[takethebounce]

Who says dedicated? Pick a common GMRS, pick a common VHF, whatever. It would have to help. If I knew someone was lost out there, I would have our group change and monitor a "common channel". Can't hurt. I assume that the clubs are heavily involved when a rescue happens, so ensure SAR has the common radio channels covered. If it only works 50% of the time, well you just saved hours and hours of helicopter time.

If we as a group can't even organize this....

Did you even read the posts above mine? Several people suggested a dedicated channel.

Pick a common VHF? How many people are carrying VHF band capable radios? You would have your group monitor a common channel? What about the other 21 GMRS channels?

What about when there is no club to be involved?

Do you understand what you are even talking about? If not get a better understanding first. It’s important, these little radios are hard to understand for many people. Then add in multi band programmable UHF/VHF radios and not everyone has a clear picture on how it works.

 

[Mike270412]

Why not use 156.80 ?

Marine channel 16 is the emergency channel world wide for boaters. It is vhf but there shouldn't be any issue dedicating one uhf and one vhf frequency for a sledder emergency channel. The off road 4x4 guys have a dedicated channel. I think FRS16 should be used as a uhf emergency channel as for vhf I should maybe talk to a few guys and set something up. I will be discussing this with the BCSF soon

 

[Mike270412]

Brian where do you keep your inreach? You should show me how to use it.

i have the inreach and it has always sent messages and tracking flawless. its another tool for emergency or just to let people your off the mountain safe and all good for peice of mind, imo i feel it is a good tool and will always be with me in the backcountry. only thing i have been thinking while reading this post is a person should let riding partners know where you keep it along with having them know how to use it,yes i know its simple but instead of having them fumble thru it a quick lesson should possible be showen, hopefully never needs to be used for emergency but the years i have used it the piece of mind is worth it letting others know your good.. imo snowmobile clubs could have one to monitor and communicate if people need assistance over having a radio due to distance of 2way radio maynot be sufficient. alot of times i think locals could be part of rescue faster than sar and maybe be able to get people out. this year already a few people have spent the night and loved ones didnt have communication so think of what is going thru their minds.

 

[takethebounce]

Why not use 156.80 ?

Using VHF bands require VHF band radios.

The Garmin Rinos, BCA Links, another other pre preprogrammed radios are UHF band only. You would likely eliminate more than half the users right there.

Most user programable radios are 136-174 VHF and 400-520 UHF. You can get others, I have one for aviation purposes that goes much lower than 136mhz.

The most commonly used radios are FRs/GMRS for back country users. Ray is correct when suggesting GMRS 16 as a good choice.


I recall an old thread a couple of years ago that there was a desire to use channel 20. I never understood why but I did some searching on it and 462.675 was a widely recognized channel used dating back to the 1960’s. Regardless of 16 or 20 both offer the same result.

 

[broke'n'nuts]

I won’t be popular for this, but here goes: One can have every piece of safety equipment, every ounce of training and still be up sh&t creek without a paddle due to poor decision making. I see it often, where guys with AST1 and a year airbags temp fate on a regular basis, because they feel educated and bulletproof, I quit riding with a few simply because I’m not interested in putting myself at risk, or others in the group who may be less experienced. The fact is, Mother Nature can be a cruel bit#h, and one has to respect her, and KNOW your own limits. Don’t be “that” guy who takes unnecessary chances, ride smart so you can ride another day. None of the stuff we have today was available when I started ( including the awesome new iron that is more capable then full mod sleds from a few years ago). I tear down & inspect my iron regularly - as do the rest of the folk I ride with. The reason is to avoid breakdowns in the back country, and if something fails I’ll either limp it out (if possible), or heli it out if need be. Injuries can happen, so a good 1st aid kit and skills are needed. Also needed are winter survival skills. In short: plan for the worst, hope for the best, and use your head out there - I guarantee you that every cool sled video you see has a TON of resources behind the scenes, most times a helicopter is present. Common sense is the best asset available to you, radios / inreach / spot / airbags / sat phones are great assists, but you need to DEPEND on yourself and those you ride with 1st, so be prepared and go out with the mindset that SAR may not be there to bail you out...play safe.

At the end of the day, this is the right approach. All the goodies may "assist" in helping you out, but no guarantee. This is backcountry. While waiting for help js great, it may not be coming. You need to be prepared to survive, by whatever means necessary. Breakdown in middle of a socked in snowstorm, guess what, you're on your own. Plan for that, your group plans for that you will be ok. But I also get the money factor equation. How many 18-25 yr olds think about it. At that age I wouldn't have. Can bet you none of you would have either. We learn from the mistakes of others. Hopefully we get old enough to pass on that knowledge. We judge pretty harsh, forgetting we were ALL once young and foolish too. The best part is as a whole, trying to make it better and train the newbs of the hazards. Pretty easy to make keyboard judgments....I think the clubs could easily dedicate a channel for emergency use but brings it's own problems with liability etc. Most fsrs don't really have great range, but those are the common frequencies. End of the day, plan like knkwnone is coming to get you, survival is key. To many now rely on the technology as a be all end all savior

 

[acesup800]

Did you even read the posts above mine? Several people suggested a dedicated channel.

Pick a common VHF? How many people are carrying VHF band capable radios? You would have your group monitor a common channel? What about the other 21 GMRS channels?

What about when there is no club to be involved?

Do you understand what you are even talking about? If not get a better understanding first. It’s important, these little radios are hard to understand for many people. Then add in multi band programmable UHF/VHF radios and not everyone has a clear picture on how it works.

Dude, I truly don't care, I'm not out looking for guys. Ya I read the posts and ya I understand how radios work. I have both a marine and aviation licence. Big deal, I ain't using them when I'm sledding. What I said was pick a damn common frequency on whatever band someone, somewhere, thinks is a good idea that the general population knows someone may be listening to. Maybe it will cut back on some SAR time.

Lastly, give up on all the different scenario's. We get it. It won't work every time. I don't think that was the point.

 

[Tchetek]

It Can’t hurt. The less bad stories on the media the better for all

 

[takethebounce]

Dude, I truly don't care, I'm not out looking for guys. Ya I read the posts and ya I understand how radios work. I have both a marine and aviation licence. Big deal, I ain't using them when I'm sledding. What I said was pick a damn common frequency on whatever band someone, somewhere, thinks is a good idea that the general population knows someone may be listening to. Maybe it will cut back on some SAR time.

Lastly, give up on all the different scenario's. We get it. It won't work every time. I don't think that was the point.

I think you are confusing the difference of what a common frequency is vs dedicated.

A common frequency or for purposes of GMRS channel would be channel 4. It’s common, lots of people use it. You can’t just say pick a common frequency because how would people know what you are on for purposes of S&R which was what my reply was directed towards to those who suggested a dedicated channel. A dedicated channel for S&R would be suggesting using that channel only for S&R like marine 16.


You have a great attitude though. Glad I don’t ride with you since you don’t care and if you aren’t looking out for guys.

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

Folks...JUST A REMINDER....please don’t make tour comments a personal attack on another member.
This is an awesome conversation that we can hope helps create a future solution for the back country, everyone, every sport.

Again....Just A Reminder not to make comments a personal attack.

Thanks.
administration

 

[Dawizman]

A designated GMRS channel for use in case of emergency could definitely help cut down on search time. It would be great if a bigger organization like Avalanche Canada or even BCSF designated or recommended a frequency (or frequencies in multiple bands) for use in case of emergency. It would be great if we just came up with one on our own, but I've already seen 20 different suggestions for one in different discussions. If a province or country wide channel was designated, signage could be posted at trail heads, the best practice could be taught during AST and other safety courses, and advertisements on social media, etc... could get the word around. Somebody in trouble could keep a radio on said frequency in the case of emergency, and rescue teams or people looking for them could broadcast on that channel while searching. It won't

Another idea in the case you are stuck, is to start calling out on every channel one at a time. Something simple like "Does anyone out there copy? I need help!". Listen for a few seconds, and then go to the next. Of course this doesn't work well when people are using privacy codes. People really ought to stop using them in the backcountry. Privacy is great until you are in trouble. We were sharing a channel with about three other groups this past weekend on Allen. Yeah it might have been annoying to hear all these other people while riding, but if something happened at least I had a very high chance of someone nearby hearing me on the radio.

 

[LBZ]

I look at it this way, if most common radios out there are uhf, set a designated “omg I’m f’d and need help” frequency to it and make it a standard. Promote it, sell the idea to all the backcountry users, sar, law enforcement, atv and sled clubs, hiking folk, fish and feathers, whoever. The public will eventually get on board and over time this will become the standard go to like the marine 16 is now.

It will take a somewhat authoritative organization such as sar to pick one and set this in motion though imo. Or a large organization to get the word out.

Sar can still use their own channels to talk to themselves but at least there would be one channel EVERYONE knows to monitor in case of emergency right?

 

[lilduke]

- I guarantee you that every cool sled video you see has a TON of resources behind the scenes, most times a helicopter is present. .

Lol you'd be surprised. 99 times out of 100 no helicopters are around.

 

[Rene G]

Lol you'd be surprised. 99 times out of 100 no helicopters are around.

I agree with you for sure!! Just because we eat these videos up doesn’t mean there’s a ton of money in it, plus with drones now they can get the same shots a chopper would (or close enough) for a fraction of the cost.

 

[Bnorth]

It would be great if BCSF could pick a channel to recommend its member clubs use. Post signs at the trailhead, in the cabins and have the trail fee collector remind everyone everyday. It would take 2 or 3 years but the word would get out and it could drastically shorten search time. It won't every time but any improvement helps. SAR uses VHF radios but generally have or could get BCA or equivalent FRS radios to carry. We have a handful of them that we use to communicate with convergent groups when we ask them for help.

 

[Caper11]

If you have a spot or inreach why not just include what channel you will be monitoring in your distress message????


Maybe a message left on the window of your pickup letting people know what channel you will be on.

 

[maxwell]

If you have a spot or inreach why not just include what channel you will be monitoring in your distress message????


Maybe a message left on the window of your pickup letting people know what channel you will be on.

makes the most sense to me!

 

[Rene G]

I like the idea of putting the frequency in the window, imma do it from now on.

 

[f150truck]

If you have a spot or inreach why not just include what channel you will be monitoring in your distress message????


Maybe a message left on the window of your pickup letting people know what channel you will be on.

If you have sent a 911 from a spot or Inreach then SAR has your exact GPS co-ordinates !!!

But your radio channel is a good idea also.