For those that don't carry a spot,inreach or sat phone why not?

[Lund]

I wonder how many TRULY know how to use a topo map and compass?
Bet not many.

But when all else fails, push that button....something wrong with that picture.

 

[takethebounce]

I wonder how many TRULY know how to use a topo map and compass?
Bet not many.

But when all else fails, push that button....something wrong with that picture.

That’s for a different thread, the one you where you start a fire with two sticks.

 

[Lund]

That’s for a different thread, the one you where you start a fire with two sticks.

Is it really, what your saying is SAR's is never used for lost rider's. Sar's should never be used for lost rider's BUT injured rider's. Unfortunately, as a SAR's member that is not the case.

As for starting a fire with stick's LOL....we at SAR's still use topo's and so does every military organization's on the planet. Yes we do, in conjunction with the fancy stuff. I didn't realize that the civilian's population was better set up then the professional's.

Have you ever looked at a standard issue military GPS, it uses a minimum of 3 military sat. at all times, compared to your 1. Considerably faster and more accurate, yet topo's are still used...why is that.

 

[takethebounce]

Is it really, what your saying is SAR's is never used for lost rider's. Sar's should never be used for lost rider's BUT injured rider's. Unfortunately, as a SAR's member that is not the case.

As for starting a fire with stick's LOL....we at SAR's still use topo's and so does every military organization's on the planet. Yes we do, in conjunction with the fancy stuff. I didn't realize that the civilian's population was better set up then the professional's.

Sorry but what? Because I said nothing or inferred anything even remotely close to what you have somehow deduced from what I actually said.

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

Is it really, what your saying is SAR's is never used for lost rider's. Sar's should never be used for lost rider's BUT injured rider's. Unfortunately, as a SAR's member that is not the case.

As for starting a fire with stick's LOL....we at SAR's still use topo's and so does every military organization's on the planet. Yes we do, in conjunction with the fancy stuff. I didn't realize that the civilian's population was better set up then the professional's.

Not sure I agree that SAR’s shouldn’t be used for lost riders, Search And Rescue seems to indicate it should.

Even the best riders, most trained etc end up over their heads or with a broken something. Unfortunately at this point S&R is a catch all.
The other part is we still, and always will, have riders going out unprepared (skills and knowledge). Education (guilting riders if you will at times) is one of the ways we increase standards.
I’ve made it clear I will not ride (my personal group) with peeps who don’t have gear, AST1 and a radio. These are my rules and so far about 10 riders have gotten educated so we can hang on the hills.

I’ve been riding for approx 20 years in mountains and still today I’m pretty much lost...I have no internal compass, so I have the electronic tool to assist me Incase I get lost, cause it’s a good possibility. I also always ride in a buddy system, it really helps.

We as SnowAndMud do donate to the local communities to aid in S&R, Cabin Upkeep etc each year because we do not want our sport spoiled.

Ok SBR....take a deep breath.

Tools....it’s all about tools.
Have them, know how use them, only call on S&R in a real emergency and play safe.


Search And Rescue
- Dan Davodoff
- Rene St. Onge

They don’t get much better than these two fine ambassadors to our sport
R.I.P.

 

[Big A]

Before this turns into another “Lund is smarter and better at everything than everyone on the entire internet”, let’s sum this thread up.

1- people are getting too dependant on electronics and SAR to get them out of bad situations wether it be on the mountain or at home, people need to become more self reliant, agreed

2- having a backup plan such as a spot, sat phone etc. is a good thing but not a replacement for experience, common sense and backcountry training, but at the end of the day, we’ve lost some of the best people in our sport to the mountain, doesn’t hurt to be over prepared, agreed

3- having a dedicated frequency in case of emergency on both U and VHF would be a great idea, agreed but would take some serious organizing, ie: a provincial club meeting topic.

4- people need to know their limitations, I have met many guys way back in any given riding area that haven’t a fuc&ing clue how they got there, how to get out or the skill level to do so, do I tell them they’re stupid and make fun of them, usually a little bit lol, but more importantly, I try to make people aware of how sh!tty their day can get when you don’t have the proper tools or training to get out. Everybody had to start somewhere, not everyone was born a human compass with a built in survival pack like Chuck Norris or Lund.

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

Before this turns into another “Lund is smarter and better at everything than everyone on the entire internet”, let’s sum this thread up.

1- people are getting too dependant on electronics and SAR to get them out of bad situations wether it be on the mountain or at home, people need to become more self reliant, agreed

2- having a backup plan such as a spot, sat phone etc. is a good thing but not a replacement for experience, common sense and backcountry training, but at the end of the day, we’ve lost some of the best people in our sport to the mountain, doesn’t hurt to be over prepared, agreed

3- having a dedicated frequency in case of emergency on both U and VHF would be a great idea, agreed but would take some serious organizing, ie: a provincial club meeting topic.

4- people need to know their limitations, I have met many guys way back in any given riding area that haven’t a fuc&ing clue how they got there, how to get out or the skill level to do so, do I tell them they’re stupid and make fun of them, usually a little bit lol, but more importantly, I try to make people aware of how sh!tty their day can get when you don’t have the proper tools or training to get out. Everybody had to start somewhere, not everyone was born a human compass with a built in survival pack like Chuck Norris or Lund.

Well put.

And yes, let’s not make this personal

 

[Lund]

I agree with everything being said, all i'm saying is an ounce of prevention goes a long way's.
Spot, Inreach and sat phones are all great tool's in the tool box. But who hires a mechanic or a carpenter with pretty tool's and no basic knowledge.
That is the mistake being made here, its a great conversation to have but its only as good as the man behind the tool.
Its like the blind leading the blind but the leading blind has the fancy stuff.
Out door etiquette starts at the basic's, without it bad decisions will always be made even with Spot, Inreach and Sat phones.


I'm sorry for stirring chet up, great thread BTW.

 

[lilduke]

People are pussy's now a days. All David Thompson had to navigate was the stars.lol

 

[snochuk]

Before this turns into another “Lund is smarter and better at everything than everyone on the entire internet”, let’s sum this thread up.

1- people are getting too dependant on electronics and SAR to get them out of bad situations wether it be on the mountain or at home, people need to become more self reliant, agreed

2- having a backup plan such as a spot, sat phone etc. is a good thing but not a replacement for experience, common sense and backcountry training, but at the end of the day, we’ve lost some of the best people in our sport to the mountain, doesn’t hurt to be over prepared, agreed

3- having a dedicated frequency in case of emergency on both U and VHF would be a great idea, agreed but would take some serious organizing, ie: a provincial club meeting topic.

4- people need to know their limitations, I have met many guys way back in any given riding area that haven’t a fuc&ing clue how they got there, how to get out or the skill level to do so, do I tell them they’re stupid and make fun of them, usually a little bit lol, but more importantly, I try to make people aware of how sh!tty their day can get when you don’t have the proper tools or training to get out. Everybody had to start somewhere, not everyone was born a human compass with a built in survival pack like Chuck Norris or Lund.

Exactly Big A and it is very easy to acquire a sled on payments that will take you almost anywhere and easily beyond a lot of people's skill set without knowing it as the new sleds are that easy to ride.
Getting in over one's head is really easy, getting out is a lot tougher.
Tools, training and practice are key to a long sledding career without SAR.
All of our groups regular have AST1(a minimum), first aid CPR, an some of us have winter survival training and have spent a couple weekends in -20C in a hand made shelter.
One thing we have never done is ride and explore NEW areas in crap weather.
Sunny days only for exploring - but we have been out in crap weather in our home turf areas.
Not even sure if there was a Sat phone or neat gadgets in 2001 when we started but from day one we printed Google maps for exploring new areas.
We have all the gadgets now but do not use them - our groups goal is to make the right choices and not need them.
We have only used the Sat to call home at noonish from the mountain to make sure it is working.
But if shat ever does happen we have the Sat phone, are trained, practice and are competent.

And the thread question of why not?
Inexperienced, untrained and just don't know how fast your day can get really fawkd up.
Maybe a bit of cost for some.

 

[brian h]

mikey many numbers will show you inreach next trip as per your request

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

Exactly and it is very easy to acquire a sled on payments that will take you almost anywhere and easily beyond a lot of people's skill set without knowing it as the new sleds are that easy to ride.
Getting in over one's head is really easy, getting out is a lot tougher.
Tools, training and practice are key to a long sledding career.
All of our groups regular have AST1(a minimum), first aid CPR, an some of us have winter survival training and have spent a couple weekends in -20C in a hand made shelter.
One thing we have never don is ride and explore NEW areas in crap weather.
Sunny days only for exploring - but we have been out in crap weather in or home turf areas.
Not sure if there was a Sat phone or neat gadgets in 2001 when we started.
We have all the gadgets now but do not use them - our groups goal is to make the right choices and not need them.
We have only used the Sat to call home at noonish from the mountain to make sure it is working.
But if shat ever does happen we have the Sat phone.

Things go wrong real fast. We were way back in Renshaw a few years back when a storm hit...white out...couldn’t tell up from down. Found inexperienced straggles as we worked our way back to the cabin. Helps to stay calm and focused, but having Randy as a leader was awesome.Knows the area like the back of his hand....Oh the memories Snochuk...lol

 

[Lund]

Exactly and it is very easy to acquire a sled on payments that will take you almost anywhere and easily beyond a lot of people's skill set without knowing it as the new sleds are that easy to ride.
Getting in over one's head is really easy, getting out is a lot tougher.
Tools, training and practice are key to a long sledding career.
All of our groups regular have AST1(a minimum), first aid CPR, an some of us have winter survival training and have spent a couple weekends in -20C in a hand made shelter.
One thing we have never done is ride and explore NEW areas in crap weather.
Sunny days only for exploring - but we have been out in crap weather in our home turf areas.
Not even sure if there was a Sat phone or neat gadgets in 2001 when we started but from day one we printed Google maps for exploring new areas.
We have all the gadgets now but do not use them - our groups goal is to make the right choices and not need them.
We have only used the Sat to call home at noonish from the mountain to make sure it is working.
But if shat ever does happen we have the Sat phone, are trained, practice and are competent.

And the question of why not?
Inexperienced, untrained and just don't know how fast your day can get really fawkd up.
Maybe a bit of cost for some.

Very well said, its not just about having fun with our toy's. There is and has to be a certain amount of responsibility and work to become competent in the back country. Just like mentioned above by snochuk.

 

[tex78]

I woulda had more than 45 minutes of sleep new years eve if the stranded group had an inreach.

You and me both

 

[tex78]

Before this turns into another “Lund is smarter and better at everything than everyone on the entire internet”, let’s sum this thread up.

1- people are getting too dependant on electronics and SAR to get them out of bad situations wether it be on the mountain or at home, people need to become more self reliant, agreed

2- having a backup plan such as a spot, sat phone etc. is a good thing but not a replacement for experience, common sense and backcountry training, but at the end of the day, we’ve lost some of the best people in our sport to the mountain, doesn’t hurt to be over prepared, agreed

3- having a dedicated frequency in case of emergency on both U and VHF would be a great idea, agreed but would take some serious organizing, ie: a provincial club meeting topic.

4- people need to know their limitations, I have met many guys way back in any given riding area that haven’t a fuc&ing clue how they got there, how to get out or the skill level to do so, do I tell them they’re stupid and make fun of them, usually a little bit lol, but more importantly, I try to make people aware of how sh!tty their day can get when you don’t have the proper tools or training to get out. Everybody had to start somewhere, not everyone was born a human compass with a built in survival pack like Chuck Norris or Lund.

120% correct there

 

[snochuk]

Things go wrong real fast. We were way back in Renshaw a few years back when a storm hit...white out...couldn’t tell up from down. Found inexperienced straggles as we worked our way back to the cabin. Helps to stay calm and focused, but having Randy as a leader was awesome.Knows the area like the back of his hand....Oh the memories Snochuk...lol

Unfortunately I have gotten caught back there once with a group of 8.
Had cousin with me that knows the area very well also.
We parked our sleds on side of climb so the rest could drive from sled to sled to top of climb. Weather got crazy bad in a half hour.
Training is the most important.
Due to bad choices one day we all had to use our training to bring everybody home.
A tough day for the group that changes you.
I am sure that everyone that has the missfortune of expierinceing a life and death day looks at what they do a little differently.

 

[Caper11]

Unfortunately I have gotten caught back there once with a group of 8.
Had cousin with me that knows the area very well also.
We parked our sleds on side of climb so the rest could drive from sled to sled to top of climb. Weather got crazy bad in a half hour.
Training is the most important.
Due to bad choices one day we all had to use our training to bring everybody home.
A tough day for the group that changes you.
I am sure that everyone that has the missfortune of expierinceing a life and death day looks at what they do a little differently.

Agreed!

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

Unfortunately I have gotten caught back there once with a group of 8.
Had cousin with me that knows the area very well also.
We parked our sleds on side of climb so the rest could drive from sled to sled to top of climb. Weather got crazy bad in a half hour.
Training is the most important.
Due to bad choices one day we all had to use our training to bring everybody home.
A tough day for the group that changes you.
I am sure that everyone that has the missfortune of expierinceing a life and death day looks at what they do a little differently.

I’d do it again with you and your crew, your all sensible and calm. Most of ours was that day as well (with you leading the way) but some peeps can’t handle the challenge.

If we could only TELUS a few of those peeps who think they know everything, drop them into a bad situation with us, they might respect the back country & its dangers a little more. I know the young fellas in our crew sure did learn.

 

[52weekbreak]

I, like many others, do not live in the mountains so only get there when I can. This could be as little as once and the best year I had was four times. I have always gone to the same area with a group who ride it all the time so can generally find my way around and certainly with others who know the area like their own back yard. A few do carry satellite phones. The only time we went somewhere different, we hired guides who were well equipped.

It is difficult to properly maintain equipment that is seldom used so I either borrow or rent the avy pack. MEC used to rent avy packs but I do not see it on their site anymore.

My question is this: As these are expensive and for many. frequently unused, how difficult would it be to have an equipment rental pool to defray the cost of ownership and assist with access to equipment one otherwise would go without. This would be particularly useful with the sat phones.

 

[Bnorth]

You can rent sat phones from any sat phone company just about.


Since I have to add a disclaimer it seems now, before Lund determines I am suggesting that I am saying to rent a Sat phone and it will save you no matter what and it’s all you need because he gets triggered over a joke about rubbing two sticks together, I am just passing along info you can in fact rent these items. I saw someone else post you can rent gear still at MEC. Call and ask, it may not be listed on their site. Don’t say it’s for snowmobiling, you know, because it’s just better not to.

University’s with outdoor programs also used to rent gear. My first trips to the mountains I rented transceivers from UofC.

Once I hit send I remembered that some dealers were offering rental packs on gear. The old Bow Cycle in Calgary did. Not sure if new guys do. And Avalanche Safety Solutions in Golden does as well. Just put avalanche bag rental in the old google machine and you will find some answers.

I would make a point of mentioning at MEC that it's for sledding.
Pretty much all the mountain sled/snowbike rental shops rent avy gear as well.