FALLOUT: Avalanche-Turbo March 13,2010

[Thunderr]

Good job JP.

 

[Riverjet]

A comment posted by Speycaster, a skier and flyfisherman on the FishBC.com website. He also spews his venom on the Flybc.ca website.

"I ski toured all over the BC back country in the late sixties up until the early eighties, no cell phones and most did not know where we were. Our only hope was self rescue and due diligence. We did not gather at the bottom of avalanche prone slopes to watch each other cut the slope to aid in creating an avalanche. We saw some wonderful places with not another soul in sight. We survived by our selves and that is the way it should be. If we had been caught in a slide no one would have found us until spring if then and that is the way it should be. The taxpayer should not be holding the hands of those that venture into the back country, where is the incentive to take care and learn if all you have to do is scream for help and the helicopters show up. Learn to survive by yourself or die. Too bad the death toll was not higher as I do not think two will teach those morons anything, two hundred may have made an impression on them but I even have my doubts about that. I do not think any of them will pony up the fees for the removal of their junk from the slide area, that is what we the taxpayers are for. If you have a hundred grand for truck, trailer and sleds they certainly have the cash to pay for the removal of that junk, plus they should be charged under the environment act for pollution for the fuel and oil spills. Maybe a $100,000 dollar fine each might get their attention."

 

[foxrider]

Re: Big Iron Shootout Avalanche-Turbo March 13,2010

WOW almost the first one out of the chute and you break the#2 rule.

This is a place to put your thoughts about the conditions, the event, snowmobiles etc....however there are some rules.

1. No swearing.
2. No personal attacks/slander/threats etc.

"Lets try our best to educate the Stupid"

why take that tone?

first of all. what he said does not qualify under rule 2.
second of all. whydid you take that tone? we all know the risk of heading into the mountains. we all have the thought in the back of our head that might not make it home but we understand the risks. just like those of us who ride on ice understand the risks. avalanches are an act of god. uncontolable part of nature. all of us know our time to go will happen sooner or later but for some god calls them sooner than others. all the snowmibilers who have died in avalanches have died with one very thing in common. they all died doing the thing they loved. if their deaths leave any mark on us as a snowmobiler comunity shouldnt it be that they died embracing what they loved. the members of parliment that are considering new laws lack the same determination and love of the sport that others have. by the logic of taxing something that has potential to go wrong why dont the tax you every time you take your truck on the ice for fishing. or take you every time you have a child because if the risk of having birth complications. i may be only 15 but that doesnt mean uneducated and unexperienced.... food for thought.

food for thought.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Re: Big Iron Shootout Avalanche-Turbo March 13,2010

avalanches are an act of god.

Sorry but...No. "Human triggered" avalanches are NOT an act of God. They're preventable.

 

[foxrider]

Re: Big Iron Shootout Avalanche-Turbo March 13,2010

Sorry but...No. "Human triggered" avalanches are NOT an act of God. They're preventable.

not all are preventable. but if you are in an area that is prone to avalanches isnt it god that triggers when it releases?

 

[foxrider]

some avalanches may be triggered by avalanches but isnt it chance by god that some person is in just the right spot to get hit by the avalanche.

 

[teamti]

some avalanches may be triggered by avalanches but isnt it chance by god that some person is in just the right spot to get hit by the avalanche.

I don't want to sound like I'm lecturing but "act of god" and "accident" arguments are precisely the kind of thinking that will

- get you killed
- make all sledders look bad.

Avalanches need the following to happen - I know I'm grossly simplifying btw

1. Terrain (read this as usually a steep slope - 38 degrees is perfect)

2. A trigger

So if you skip meadows all the time then you won't get involved in a slide but come on! That's boring - no sarcasm intended

Triggers can be natural or external. Natural triggers are usually big changes in some external environment over a short period of time (eg lots of snow, lots of wind, sudden warming, sudden cooling) External triggers can be something like cornice drop, a skier, a snowboarder, a sledder, a rock fall.

A substantial number of avalanches are human-triggered. So you're looking at this backwards. Sometimes with avalanches "some person is in just the right spot to get hit by the avalanche" (to use your words). That's a true accident. Swiss villages getting wiped out. Entire trains getting destroyed by slides.

Too many times though the avalanche was triggered by person being there. eg Turbo. eg Wells Gray & CMH Valemount. eg Eagle Pass. Eg Clemina from last year.

and that's why it's wrong to think that all avalanches are "Acts of God" or "accident". I hope i answered your question in my very long-winded way/.

 

[pano-dude]

Re: Big Iron Shootout Avalanche-Turbo March 13,2010

first of all. what he said does not qualify under rule 2.
second of all. whydid you take that tone? we all know the risk of heading into the mountains. we all have the thought in the back of our head that might not make it home but we understand the risks. just like those of us who ride on ice understand the risks. avalanches are an act of god. uncontolable part of nature. all of us know our time to go will happen sooner or later but for some god calls them sooner than others. all the snowmibilers who have died in avalanches have died with one very thing in common. they all died doing the thing they loved. if their deaths leave any mark on us as a snowmobiler comunity shouldnt it be that they died embracing what they loved. the members of parliment that are considering new laws lack the same determination and love of the sport that others have. by the logic of taxing something that has potential to go wrong why dont the tax you every time you take your truck on the ice for fishing. or take you every time you have a child because if the risk of having birth complications. i may be only 15 but that doesnt mean uneducated and unexperienced.... food for thought.

food for thought.

dude if this is what you believe, please stay away from the mountains, I never have any thoughts of "not coming home" If I do not feel safe I don't go.

the people died because they made a mistake, the others were injured because they also made a mistake.

if they had heart attacks and died sledding then it was an act of nature..

 

[moyiesledhead]

Re: Big Iron Shootout Avalanche-Turbo March 13,2010

not all are preventable. but if you are in an area that is prone to avalanches isnt it god that triggers when it releases?

...........Ah, never mind! I'll just go with my signature.

 

[Red Mtn Riders]

Re: Big Iron Shootout Avalanche-Turbo March 13,2010

i may be only 15 but that doesnt mean uneducated and unexperienced.... food for thought.

food for thought.

Ummmmm, no offense intended as I have kids your age, but in fact you do lack experience and "life" education, no matter how smart of a kid you are.

Save this and read it back to yourself in 20-30 years, then tell me what you think.

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

Written By John Kelly of the CAC

One of the fundamental principles of travel in avalanche terrain is to limit the numbers exposed to the consequences of an avalanche. Riding in avalanche terrain should be a solitary activity, thus you group up in a safe spots and then hit the slopes alone. Somehow this principle is not being followed in the sled accidents we are seeing. Over the next few weeks the CAC will be aggressively pursue messaging that targets this public safety issue. We are asking you to help.

With the current conditions as they are we can expect to see decreasing frequency of avalanches but with increasing size. This means it becomes more and more tempting to hit the slope that you have resisted because you may go quite a long time without seeing any avalanche activity. Unfortunately when a slide does occur (I did not say "if") the strong likelihood is that it will be bigger than expected. It can also occur on slopes that are less steep than usual. It is therefore critical that people respect the one-at-a-time rule for slope use - even in moderately steep terrain!

I would be expecting avalanche activity in the coming week to be on slopes about 30 to 35 degrees with a wide-open smooth character. This is not very steep.

I am interested in your thoughts on how we encourage reduced numbers of exposed people at the same time in avalanche country. If you are seeing bad habits in terms of grouping together where you are, you should consider taking action to counter the trend. Please forward this message to your members.

Best Regards,

John Kelly
Operations Manager,
Canadian Avalanche Centre
Revelstoke, BC
250 837 2141

 

[vanislerev]

some avalanches may be triggered by avalanches but isnt it chance by god that some person is in just the right spot to get hit by the avalanche.

Oh boy. "Isnt it by chance by god that some person is in just the right spot", so im riding along, and all of a sudden I am beamed to a avy prone hill by god, and at that exact instance, an avalance occurs, the was triggered by avalanches?
I started riding my own sled when I was 11, so I cant slag on young guys riding, certainly part of what makes the sport great, but I hope you ride with your father and his friends, and that they are avy savvy and teach you the ropes, and some respect for the elements. Ive spent some pretty shitty nights in the middle of nowhere, both in my job, and once stuck on the hill in a snowstorm on a sled. Im tellin ya, you learn alot of respect for the mountains the hard way.
Lay low, learn from others, and learn to see the risk a hill can pose, and to be man enough to stay off if the risks are too great.
Believing that it is simply an act of God, or that one quick pull wont hurt, is plain ignorant, and can put you in way over your head in a hurry.

 

[Zig Zag]

Buddy of mine was killed due to a 20 something rider on Hall Mtn that thought he knew better. Kid pulled a mark and kicked a slide that caught 4 people and killed himself and my buddy.Everyone knows what thought did he thought he farted but he S-!t. Informative forum I can only think that due to last years avy in Fernie that alot of people at the bottom of Turbo were prepared and hopefully more people will learn from the Revy inccident not to be standing by in run out areas. Here is to a safe ending to the season .

 

[kimrick]

If a tree falls in the forest does anyone hear?????

I guess if your in the area you will hear.

Same thing as avalanches....You see them after they have slide when you go in an area and you see them happen when you trigger them...

Just a thought to precess in the mind.

 

[Murminator]

There is going to be video of the avy on the 11PM Global Edmonton news......1 month after

 

[Longhorn]

WOW! That story and new video adds a whole new twist to the whole scenario now...

Maybe even looks like a sled did NOT cause it now...

I would be thrilled to see that the investigation shows that sledders never caused it, and that it happened naturally. It doesnt bring anybody back or make it less tragic, just better for the few that were on the mountain and for sledding in general.

Still makes me sick to my stomach to watch the video...

 

[H2SNOW]

anybody got the link to the vid ??

 

[Longhorn]

anybody got the link to the vid ??

Global Edmonton doesnt have the vid up yet for the 19th...it should show up very soon though!

 

[CUSO]

It's up now.
Go to 23:25 on the video

 

[Summitric]

S&R AND THE RCMP ARE TRYING TO DETERMINE WHO IS TO BLAME FOR THIS DISASTER AND ALSO WHO IS GOING TO PAY THE $500,000.00 FEE FOR S&R, SLED REMOVALS, CLEAN-UP, HELICOPTER TIME, ETC, ETC........ THE GOVERNMENT(TAXPAYERS) DOESN'T WANT TO FOOT THE BILL, AND SUGGEST IT BE PASSED ON TO ALL THE INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED, AND POSSIBLY THE ORGANIZER OF THE EVENT