FALLOUT: Avalanche-Turbo March 13,2010

[rknight111]

This is a place to put your thoughts about the conditions, the event, snowmobiles etc....however there are some rules.

1. No swearing.
2. No personal attacks/slander/threats etc.
3. If your commenting try and have your facts right.
4. If you comment then you must accept that others will want to respond to that comment.
5. Try not to take those comments as a personal attack.
6. Remember that not all sledders agree/disagree with riding in the mountains when the risk is elevated, please attempt not to put all Alberta and British Columbia sledders into one group.
   • No attacking the Moderators for "doing their job"

Those who deviate from the above list may find their posts deleted or we may have to ban you.

*** Comments made on this thread or site do not reflect the views the Moderators or of snowandmud.com ***

 

[jbeatnic]

The information (or should I say, misinformation) given by the media is one of the most disturbing parts. Every news article I have read only focuses on the tragic aspects of this accident, with very little in regards to those who helped prevent this from being a larger tragedy. The media has always taken events such as this to "promote" how unsafe the sport of snowmobiling (and quadding) is. Everytime something like this happens, it gives ammuntion to those who wish to take our sports away from us.

On some of the news websites I visited today, the comments were very derogatory towards snowmobilers. Many comments actually stated they didn't believe snowmobiling should be classified as a sport. Obviously they have never tried it for themselves.

There are so many insightful comments on this forum. I encourage everyone to comment also on some of the news pages so non-riders can see our support for those involved, and our dedication to our sport.

To those critizing the parents who brought their children to the mountain, snowmobiling is a family sport. Introducing our children to snowmobiling and quadding at an early age, when done right, teaches them to be responsible riders as they grow up. My daughter has been riding (quads & sleds) with me since she was 18 months old. She is five now, and as she grows up, I will continue to teach her to ride safe.

Caution is always necessary but no matter what a parent does, they can never predict every event. Hockey is a very physical sport, injuries are all too common, yet how many parents sign their kids up, year after year. Kids can get hurt doing just about anything; what should we do, send them to school wrapped in bubble wrap?

We can't stop living for fear of injury. I won't stop sledding, or quadding, because I could get hurt. I will continue to ride with the same caution, and respect for my surroundings as I always have.

 

[Captain-sno]

I have sent the letter from the Lady sledder in Oregon to the Dave Rutherford Producers, since he did a portion on his radio talk show today. I hope he does something to address it on air and maybe give another side to this tragedy!

 

[m8magic]

i forwarded her letter to my local paper

 

[teamti]

To those critizing the parents who brought their children to the mountain, snowmobiling is a family sport. Introducing our children to snowmobiling and quadding at an early age, when done right, teaches them to be responsible riders as they grow up. My daughter has been riding (quads & sleds) with me since she was 18 months old. She is five now, and as she grows up, I will continue to teach her to ride safe.

Caution is always necessary but no matter what a parent does, they can never predict every event. Hockey is a very physical sport, injuries are all too common, yet how many parents sign their kids up, year after year. Kids can get hurt doing just about anything; what should we do, send them to school wrapped in bubble wrap?

We can't stop living for fear of injury. I won't stop sledding, or quadding, because I could get hurt. I will continue to ride with the same caution, and respect for my surroundings as I always have.

Just thought I should clarify my comment about the kids. I didn't want to imply that kids should never go sledding or be in the backcountry. All I wanted to say is that that little guy probably (I'm guessing here) didn't have a choice - unlike us adults who have choices and make our own choices. My point - well I don't really know. I'm not going to judge the parents of the kids who brought their kids over to the base of Turbo to spectate. How could I? What parent purposely puts their kids in danger? You sound like you are a good parent who has their kids welfare at heart so I think you know where I'm coming from.

All I can speak to is myself and looking at the spectator area and knowing what conditions were in Turbo I get queasy thinking about what it must have been like, the sheer insanity of the situation and frankly, the sense of relief that it wasn't way way worse.

 

[bobsledder]

I have sent the letter from the Lady sledder in Oregon to the Dave Rutherford Producers, since he did a portion on his radio talk show today. I hope he does something to address it on air and maybe give another side to this tragedy!

Rutherford's only style is to provoke the person he interviews and get them to say something out of context, worst one sided reporter out there. He met his match with Angela Threatful today. She wouldn't take his bait. Heard the frustration in his voice.

 

[jbeatnic]

I borrowed Susan's letter and posted as a note on Facebook, with a link on our Snowmobile Club's page. I also plan to forward it to our local paper.

 

[carguy]

Listening to the radio today, reading the papers and watching tv I hear the media doing what they do best...sensationalize everything to sell their product. Facts get misaligned with opinions and all of those who responded to the media appear not to be sledders to me. Most were intolerant of backcountry sledding, highmarking and generally intolerant of those who choose to sled. Imo it seemed like callers were basically saying "I don't do that, why would anyone else do that? It's wrong to do that because I don't do that!" Anyone else hear that kind of response?

Reading an article tonight on internet from the Canadian Press....here's an exerpt....Never say die: Extreme snowmobilers undeterred by deadly B.C. avalanche
at 21:58 on March 15, 2010, EDT.
By Tamsyn Burgmann, THE CANADIAN PRESS
said Karl Klassen at the Canadian Avalanche Centre, based in Revelstoke.
Problem is, he said, the snowmobiling community sometimes meets education about the risks with resistance.
"Skiers have been on slopes for hundreds of years, so as a collective they're far more educated, whereas a culture of awareness doesn't yet exist for snowmobilers," he said.
"We have to get them to accept that we have something to teach them."
Link to article:

The comments by Klassen frustrate me but then again I am less educated so what other response should I have?

 

[aconcernedperson]

My nephew and sister were featured today on the news, both Global and CTV. Right after, the media talked about possible negligance charges and my heart dropped.

There is no way, NO WAY, my sister would have ever EVER let her son go into harms way. I am not sure she had any idea of the avalanche conditions. My nephew and his dad go sledding almost every weekend. I know his dad would have never wanted this to happen.

His dad is now fighting for his life. The thought that the police are thinking about charges makes me sick to my stomach. There are thousands of bad parents out there and these two are FAR from it.

 

[Cyle]

A lot of people probably won't like this post but o well no one has said it.

Yes it is GREAT the rescue effort that was put forward. Yes it could of been a ton worse. And I really feel for the familes who lost someone. People there did a great job AFTER the fact.

But how come everytime this is what most people say? It happened because mistakes were made. THEY HAVE TO STOP BEING MADE!! Everyone says everyone was so prepared, educated and all that. If so why were so many people caught? EVERYONE that was caught in that avalanche made BAD decisions. After last year it is unbelieveable that something this big would happen, why didn't people learn? What is it going to take for people to learn?


Yes this year has been better then last years terrible year, but the conditions have been better. People HAVENT LEARNED! I am not saying stay home. I am saying people need to make better INFORMED decisions. ESPECIALLY when it is something like that. I'd really like to how, how many snow pits were dug that day to see the snowpack? Planned event or not, people should be looking for warning signs. Especially when the warning was THAT severe.

I know the bit people live to ride hard and take the chances yada yada. Yea everyone takes risks driving there blah blah blah. There is a big difference but I won't even get into that. To many people endangering themselves and OTHERS. There is still no reason for anywhere near the avalanche fatailies there is. More then HALF of last years were from ignorance. Some were tragities that happen, but they are few and far between. Things will happen once in a while, but there was no reason for the magnitude of what happened.

Fix the problem while there is still a problem to be fixed. If we don't wise up and start riding a lot smarter, we won't have to worry about it anymore.

As far as that letter. The first half is great then it just goes offtrack and into the WRONG direction.

 

[psnider]

First of all my condolences go out to the families of both men.

There is no reason for o-zone to make a statement to anyone as that was not part of BIS that day. It was not his responsibility for what happened at all. The event was still going on and finishing up at the bull pen when this tragedy happened. If this would of happened on friday when most of the people probably arrived here and went for a ride for the day and that happened then, would that be his fault too. Not at all. No there was no
cover charge or admittance fee to this outing.

The only thing you had to
pay was a $20 dollar trail pass which the club raised by 5 dollars per person for this event as normally it is $15 dollars for a trail pass. Unless you had a seasons pass. They told everyone at the entrance that the avalanche warning was high. The club said the extra $5 dollars was to help cover the cleanup cost from the BIS. Were all 600 + people there for this. NOT!! Did it really cost an extra $3000 dollars for cleanup ( from this event ) and not the avalanche? I feel it didn't . The ground in the three areas super bowl , sugar bowl , and the bull pen looked pretty clean to me.

The media should be getting the facts straight before they shoot their mouths off. Maybe the media and everyone else trying to point a finger should be charged for misconstruing the facts. Too many people jump the gun before getting all the facts and thats what makes it worse. Maybe these people should talk to a lawyer before they talk about something they know nothing about or have all the details firsthand!

I had just arrived about 45 seconds before it happened and as soon as it did i raced my sled out of the way like most of the other people did or tried to. It is not a great feeling. Then i jumped right into help search , dig and probe like everyone else. It was great to see 150-200 people jump right into action and do the same without even having to be asked. Everyone knew exactly what to do and did it. That I am sad to say is the best avalanche training course right then and there. MY HAT GOES OFF TO ALL OF THESE PEOPLE. I do not consider myself as a hero but as someone who joined up to 200 people to help out in a major disaster and do our best to help and anyone of us would do it again if the situation ever arose again ( pray to god it never does) but it probably will and hopefully with good results also.

This could of happened at 9 am that morning or it could of happened 5 days later. Turbo mtn has never had that kind of a slide before with that much snow. It was a freak accident and thats all it was. I still say that Boulder Mtn. is still the safest place to ride in western canada and I will continue to go there and hopefully all other people do to.

Again my heart and condolences go out to the families of both men. Maybe a memorial ride for them in a week or two maybe proper for them just like we did for alana from zala's.Lets also invite the media for that to show how close the snowmobiling community really is.

 

[Vertical-Extreme]

First of all my condolences go out to the families of both men.

There is no reason for o-zone to make a statement to anyone as that was not part of BIS that day. It was not his responsibility for what happened at all. The event was still going on and finishing up at the bull pen when this tragedy happened. If this would of happened on friday when most of the people probably arrived here and went for a ride for the day and that happened then, would that be his fault too. Not at all. No there was no
cover charge or admittance fee to this outing.

The only thing you had to
pay was a $20 dollar trail pass which the club raised by 5 dollars per person for this event as normally it is $15 dollars for a trail pass. Unless you had a seasons pass. They told everyone at the entrance that the avalanche warning was high. The club said the extra $5 dollars was to help cover the cleanup cost from the BIS. Were all 600 + people there for this. NOT!! Did it really cost an extra $3000 dollars for cleanup ( from this event ) and not the avalanche? I feel it didn't . The ground in the three areas super bowl , sugar bowl , and the bull pen looked pretty clean to me.

The media should be getting the facts straight before they shoot their mouths off. Maybe the media and everyone else trying to point a finger should be charged for misconstruing the facts. Too many people jump the gun before getting all the facts and thats what makes it worse. Maybe these people should talk to a lawyer before they talk about something they know nothing about or have all the details firsthand!

I had just arrived about 45 seconds before it happened and as soon as it did i raced my sled out of the way like most of the other people did or tried to. It is not a great feeling. Then i jumped right into help search , dig and probe like everyone else. It was great to see 150-200 people jump right into action and do the same without even having to be asked. Everyone knew exactly what to do and did it. That I am sad to say is the best avalanche training course right then and there. MY HAT GOES OFF TO ALL OF THESE PEOPLE. I do not consider myself as a hero but as someone who joined up to 200 people to help out in a major disaster and do our best to help and anyone of us would do it again if the situation ever arose again ( pray to god it never does) but it probably will and hopefully with good results also.

This could of happened at 9 am that morning or it could of happened 5 days later. Turbo mtn has never had that kind of a slide before with that much snow. It was a freak accident and thats all it was. I still say that Boulder Mtn. is still the safest place to ride in western canada and I will continue to go there and hopefully all other people do to.

Again my heart and condolences go out to the families of both men. Maybe a memorial ride for them in a week or two maybe proper for them just like we did for alana from zala's.Lets also invite the media for that to show how close the snowmobiling community really is.

well said.

 

[oler1234]

The only thing you had to
pay was a $20 dollar trail pass which the club raised by 5 dollars per person for this event as normally it is $15 dollars for a trail pass. Unless you had a seasons pass. They told everyone at the entrance that the avalanche warning was high. The club said the extra $5 dollars was to help cover the cleanup cost from the BIS. Were all 600 + people there for this. NOT!! Did it really cost an extra $3000 dollars for cleanup ( from this event ) and not the avalanche? I feel it didn't . The ground in the three areas super bowl , sugar bowl , and the bull pen looked pretty clean to me.

ok i dont understand here, if this is a un-sanctioned event, this means everyone is volunteering there time.. for free, therefore there are no extra cost associated with clean up or anything else. Unless we are talking about a dump fee(normally $150??), but serious 3000 is a crap load of garbage. As well what does it cost the groomer to manage the trail $200/hr? (A JD 450 excavator is $250/hr fuel&wage&maintenace) so for him to work the trails all day would cost $2000. well say $4000 cause there is 2 groomers?? So we got 800 sled at $25 = $20,000 total. So minus the above leaves $13,000.

sooo... the snowmobile club get this money?? not trying to rain on anybody here but someone is cashin in my mind, and if thats the case someone is resposible no??

not trying to piss anyone off just trying to understand the cost and the extra cost for BIS....

 

[laserRob]

There, but for the grace of God, go I.

On my way home tonite.......

One person is reported dead after a veering motorist on the Stevenson Expressway crashed into oncoming traffic, officials said. Two others were taken to an area hospital in serious-to-critical condition.

The crash near Cicero Avenue temporarily closed lanes in both directions, but southbound lanes were reopening late Monday, while one northbound lane remained open, according to Illinois State police.

Early reports stated that a southbound motorist lost control of their vehicle and veered into northbound traffic.

 

[Powder Puff]

The only thing you had to
pay was a $20 dollar trail pass which the club raised by 5 dollars per person for this event as normally it is $15 dollars for a trail pass. Unless you had a seasons pass. They told everyone at the entrance that the avalanche warning was high. The club said the extra $5 dollars was to help cover the cleanup cost from the BIS. Were all 600 + people there for this. NOT!! Did it really cost an extra $3000 dollars for cleanup ( from this event ) and not the avalanche? I feel it didn't . The ground in the three areas super bowl , sugar bowl , and the bull pen looked pretty clean to me.

ok i dont understand here, if this is a un-sanctioned event, this means everyone is volunteering there time.. for free, therefore there are no extra cost associated with clean up or anything else. Unless we are talking about a dump fee(normally $150??), but serious 3000 is a crap load of garbage. As well what does it cost the groomer to manage the trail $200/hr? (A JD 450 excavator is $250/hr fuel&wage&maintenace) so for him to work the trails all day would cost $2000. well say $4000 cause there is 2 groomers?? So we got 800 sled at $25 = $20,000 total. So minus the above leaves $13,000.

sooo... the snowmobile club get this money?? not trying to rain on anybody here but someone is cashin in my mind, and if thats the case someone is resposible no??

not trying to piss anyone off just trying to understand the cost and the extra cost for BIS....

The daily trail pass fee is $18 it was increased over a month ago. The SRS has been given permission by gov. to charge up to $25 for a daily trail pass. There were not 800 riders on the hill that day. Club members did not pay a trail pass fee. The additional $2 was charged to cover additional operating costs not to clean up the mess. The SRS employees are paid. We were there for 17 hrs.

 

[MtnDoo2]

At the risk of violating some fine-print policy that I've overlooked while clicking.....Here's a post lifted from good ole Snowest that is worth reading:

<<Originally Posted by misterjj View Post
I, along with Browning Crew rode with Mike & Shay & their crew on Friday & Saturday. When we rode saturday in the sugar bowl & bull pen the snow was sliding in both areas...so i know that everyone knew that the avalanche danger was high. When we made it over to Turbo, Shay went up & got stuck & then I went up after him & made it to the top, I looped around & parked on the top & asked him if he needed help. He said he needed someone to hold the end of his sled so that he could pull the front of his sled around. He was to the far right & i was to the far left. So I started my sled & pulled closer to him. I jumped off of my sled & started walking down to him. I took about 10 ten steps away from my sled & realized that it would be to hard to climb back up to my sled. So I told him that i was gonna get back on my sled & drive down by him to help him. I started walking back up to my sled & i heard another sled coming. I stop & looked back for the sled...the sled come right behind him & turned to the right of him, & then out & over the top. As the rider reached the top the snow broke. When the snow broke i looked down @ Shay & could tell that he realized that the snow broke and he just kept looking @ it coming down at him...then he was gone. There were 3 or 4 riders sitting at the top of the mountain. One of the riders asked me if my friend was o.k. & i told him no that the avalanche took him. About that time the other rider that went to the right of him & to the top pulled next to the riders...the guy that asked me if my friend was ok asked the other rider why he went over the top of Shay. The rider replied that he didn't know there was a rider there. I believe that the rider was telling the truth when he said that he didn't see him. We all knew that the avalanche danger was high that day & could of accured at any time that day. As went back down the mountain there was total chaos. My hat goes off to everyone there that help rescue people. The people were very well prepared. They had beacons and probes and the knowledge to help in diaster like this one. I didn't know Curtis as well as Shay. But everytime I went to BC I rode with Shay & Mike. All the comments that are posted on here...positive or negative...will not help the families & friends of them feel any better about their loss. I arrived home on Sunday & hugged my wife and kids as I walked in the door & that is when I realized that Shay or Curtis would never be able to do the samething. Words can't decribe the sympathy I have for the families of Shay & Curtis. My heart goes out to them. In the end I feel this was very tragic accident...we all know the risk of riding in the back country...high avalanche danger or not...I don't think anyone is to blame.

Mike Augare>>

 

[BIGHORN1]

The information (or should I say, misinformation) given by the media is one of the most disturbing parts. Every news article I have read only focuses on the tragic aspects of this accident, with very little in regards to those who helped prevent this from being a larger tragedy. The media has always taken events such as this to "promote" how unsafe the sport of snowmobiling (and quadding) is. Everytime something like this happens, it gives ammuntion to those who wish to take our sports away from us.

On some of the news websites I visited today, the comments were very derogatory towards snowmobilers. Many comments actually stated they didn't believe snowmobiling should be classified as a sport. Obviously they have never tried it for themselves.

There are so many insightful comments on this forum. I encourage everyone to comment also on some of the news pages so non-riders can see our support for those involved, and our dedication to our sport.

To those critizing the parents who brought their children to the mountain, snowmobiling is a family sport. Introducing our children to snowmobiling and quadding at an early age, when done right, teaches them to be responsible riders as they grow up. My daughter has been riding (quads & sleds) with me since she was 18 months old. She is five now, and as she grows up, I will continue to teach her to ride safe.

Caution is always necessary but no matter what a parent does, they can never predict every event. Hockey is a very physical sport, injuries are all too common, yet how many parents sign their kids up, year after year. Kids can get hurt doing just about anything; what should we do, send them to school wrapped in bubble wrap?

We can't stop living for fear of injury. I won't stop sledding, or quadding, because I could get hurt. I will continue to ride with the same caution, and respect for my surroundings as I always have.

First of all prayers to those that are no longer with us, secondly thanks to all the fellow hero's that truely reduced the number of seriously injured people by being able to keep there heads together and respond so quickly.

Now as far as endangering your children or putting them in harms way by introducing them to snowmobiling, quading etc, would you rather have your kids involved in gangs, drugs, and so on. last time i checked good old outdoors recreation was once something we all wanted to teach our kids, i would think maybe the ones that let them get into all these other area's of danger be held accountable long before the ones that try do a family outing.... maybe they should be charged with negliegence instead.

just my 2 cents

 

[trailblazer]

Totally predictable,EXTREME AVI DANGER.Don't get it,and the reason the sledding community is being blamed is because,well,that's who started it.200 people watching,at the bottom in a slide zone,we really gotta' get it together.if you don't want the gov't to babysit ya',then better look after yourself and everyone around you.Kuddos to the rescuer's,coulda' been so much worse,we really have to take this tragedy and turn it into a learning experience.Sometimes you can't do what you want,when you want and you aren't the cool tough guy who ownes the hill!!(ha ha,what avi danger?)Sad,very sad.

 

[ducati]

First of all I would like to express my condolences for the families and friends as this is a difficult time for them. Second, hats off to the S&R workers along with all of the sledding community that helped search for the victims.

I do not believe that there are any fingers to be pointed in this situation. This was an unsanctioned "event" which is truly a bunch of friends that go riding on a particular weekend and attract an "audience". At no point should Ozone Dave or any of the "organizers" of the Big Iron Shootout be held responsible for anything that happened this weekend. It is time for people to take responsibility for their actions. Everyone at the bottom of that hill knew the avalanche risk and made the CHOICE to be in the mountains that weekend, nobody forced them to be there. If they did not know the avalanche risk that is their own fault for not being responsible and checking the CAC website like most responsible sledders do before a weekend. Our society has taken a nasty turn into this trend of blaming others for our own actions and it is time to stop. I am sad, like many others, that we lost 2 of our snowmobile family this weekend but there is no need to blame anyone. At this point there needs to be a lesson learned by all sledders to think a little more clearly when in the mountains and always be aware that an avalanche can happen.

I pose the question "If there was a NHL game held during a night of a blizzard and you drove to the game and got in an accident is it the NHL team's fault you went out?"

Once again my condolences in this time of loss.

 

[Alberta Boy]

At the risk of violating some fine-print policy that I've overlooked while clicking.....Here's a post lifted from good ole Snowest that is worth reading:

<<Originally Posted by misterjj View Post
I, along with Browning Crew rode with Mike & Shay & their crew on Friday & Saturday. When we rode saturday in the sugar bowl & bull pen the snow was sliding in both areas...so i know that everyone knew that the avalanche danger was high. When we made it over to Turbo, Shay went up & got stuck & then I went up after him & made it to the top, I looped around & parked on the top & asked him if he needed help. He said he needed someone to hold the end of his sled so that he could pull the front of his sled around. He was to the far right & i was to the far left. So I started my sled & pulled closer to him. I jumped off of my sled & started walking down to him. I took about 10 ten steps away from my sled & realized that it would be to hard to climb back up to my sled. So I told him that i was gonna get back on my sled & drive down by him to help him. I started walking back up to my sled & i heard another sled coming. I stop & looked back for the sled...the sled come right behind him & turned to the right of him, & then out & over the top. As the rider reached the top the snow broke. When the snow broke i looked down @ Shay & could tell that he realized that the snow broke and he just kept looking @ it coming down at him...then he was gone. There were 3 or 4 riders sitting at the top of the mountain. One of the riders asked me if my friend was o.k. & i told him no that the avalanche took him. About that time the other rider that went to the right of him & to the top pulled next to the riders...the guy that asked me if my friend was ok asked the other rider why he went over the top of Shay. The rider replied that he didn't know there was a rider there. I believe that the rider was telling the truth when he said that he didn't see him. We all knew that the avalanche danger was high that day & could of accured at any time that day. As went back down the mountain there was total chaos. My hat goes off to everyone there that help rescue people. The people were very well prepared. They had beacons and probes and the knowledge to help in diaster like this one. I didn't know Curtis as well as Shay. But everytime I went to BC I rode with Shay & Mike. All the comments that are posted on here...positive or negative...will not help the families & friends of them feel any better about their loss. I arrived home on Sunday & hugged my wife and kids as I walked in the door & that is when I realized that Shay or Curtis would never be able to do the samething. Words can't decribe the sympathy I have for the families of Shay & Curtis. My heart goes out to them. In the end I feel this was very tragic accident...we all know the risk of riding in the back country...high avalanche danger or not...I don't think anyone is to blame.

Mike Augare>>

OMG... gives me the friggin chills!