FALLOUT: Avalanche-Turbo March 13,2010

Maclintock

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I seriously doubt that anyone will be charged or prosecuted for any of the events that occured last saturday.

Their are no laws that restrict any travel or anyones use of the backcountry in the Revelstoke region ( Except areas marked for Caribouu closures etc).

Regions that do regulate back country use are mostly out of bounds regions on regulated Ski Hills and signs are erected to warn individuals.

When the BC gov't ( Apparently 2011) regulates the backcountry and comes out with laws pertaining to this, then people will be liable if they break laws.
No one knows what those laws will be, but all devastating incidents like this one and others will be looked at.

The BC gov't came out with a law ( Not sure when, but a few years back),
that stated if you had to be rescued or retrieved from out of bounds areas or in the backcountry, you or your family are responsible for all costs if so deemed by the province. But no laws were put in that you could not go. This law was put in because too many people ( In the Govt's opinion were being put at risk saving or retrieving people from out of bound regions and the backcountry as well as the cost)

It is up to each individual that travels into the backcountry to be prepared for what they are about to face. Whether or not they have avalanche training
it is up to them to make the decision for themselves and to be aware of all dangers that face them. It is their responsibility and no one else's at this time.

Yes it would be nice for everyone to have an avy course and to check avy conditions for the area you are going into, but it is no ones responsibility to tell you what to do or tell you where and when you go their.

The Canadian Avalanche Centre issues bulletins on a regular basis and it is up to us to make the decision to check them and follow them. They are their for our information and our use.

So until laws are put in to regulate backcountry use besides the cost of rescue and recovery ( If so deemed), no one can be charged for going back.
The Gov't will regulate backcountry use as said by the Solicitor General by fall of 2011 and it is yet to be determined what those regulations will be.

Yes lots will not like this and some will. But in the end we all must look at ourselves and make sure we do all we can to come out safe and alive.

Accidents like this and the Sparwood tragedy last year ( As well as all the other avalanche deaths last year), make each of us look a little more at what we do and what we will do in the future. It is very sad for children, mothers, fathers, wives and Husbands of victoms, and my heart as well as all on this site go out to them in morning their losses.

BE SAFE OUT THERE!!!!!
 

hurtinalbertin

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ok here it goes, first my condolences to family and friends of all involved. if charges are laid I think it's bogus, everyone involved knew the risks of this event(avy conditions or not), each and everyone had the choice to be there or not to be there. Ozone shouldn't be held responsible, he set up dates and advertized it but didn't force anyone to show up, park in the runout, or climb hills, people always look for an escape goat or someone to blame when something bad happens. As for the media they allways report the worst of things thats their "job" would be nice if just 1 reporter could maybe comment on the great job all the "HERO'S" did minutes after the slide happened and the training that sledders take to better prepare ourselves for situations that might occur. If we ban every sport that some could die in we would be banning sports and together(nascar, skiing, lugie, skydiving, horse back riding, golf, street bikes, etc...) there's risk involved in everything in life. It's tragic that we lost 2 brothers in the sledding communitie but it could have been way worse and that alone I consider a success. we can't live in a bubble or we're not living. RIP Curtis and Shay
 

pano-dude

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Last weekend was a tragedy and should not have happened. I ride every day I can but the conditions were telling me to do something else, my sled partners all agreed.

Going forwards I forsee snowmobilers in BC facing the consequences. The only way I can see the gov. actually regulating is by imposing levies on BC sleds.

They cannot enforce out of province sleds to comply.

Think about it, it is the bc taxpayers paying for the rescue of mainly out of province users....

A suggestion to all who were helped would be to write a cheque to the Revy SAR and make it public.
 

Modman

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As I read this thread, several thoughts come to mind. I was initially thinking that I wouldn't reply, but have now decided to. Several things caught my attention:

1) Charges being laid - This is govt's way of saying "smarten up and do the right thing" IMO. Heed the free avy warning and do the right things. Should we all live in a bubble? No. But I keep hearing on this thread that people need to take responsibility for their own actions - and I agree - yes they do. So get all the puzzle pieces before you go and make appropriate decisions. There are lots of comparisons to "well its more dangerous to drive down the highway" and such statements, and "no one cares about the costs of cleaning up all these traffic accidents/smoking/etc", however its the perception of our sport where the distinction lies IMO. People feel that driving is a legal right, and that sledding is a "priviledge", so the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for a rescue of a sledder, but they will not question paying for the rescue of a drunk driver who plunges their car over an embankment or into a family minivan. Both activities carry equally weighted risks. In 2003, 7 young lives were lost in the Rogers Pass when an avalanche claimed some students from a school in Calgary. I didn't hear the RCMP charging the school or the parents with negligence at that time...........
By law, the BC coroner's office is required to investigate all deaths. Charges often stem from these investigations as well.

2) As for the organizer and charges and public statement - tough call. All you have to do is look at youtube and find some videos from BIS 2009 and it's apparent that there is an organizer. So people saying that its this or that - well, last years video is right there live and in colour - who did you think it was going to come out as? :rolleyes: Were they there at Turbo and was this part of the BIS? Once it all comes out in the wash, there will be people that were there that will say "yes" and there will be people that were there that will say "no". Not sure if the real answer will ever be determined.
Public statement - If you want someone to positively represent the sport, the selection process needs to be very objective - this person will likely receive national media coverage. I don't think Ozone is an appropriate candidate and as stated, could be a sign of admission. The whole civil lawsui issue will be discussed for sure, as stated, lots of people seem to be distancing themselves from this but the BCSF needed high price insurance to keep themselves out of this same kind of trouble and in the end just couldn't make it work, regardless of the BIS being "sanctioned" or not by any regulating body, it raises several issues.

3) AST 1 with trail pass - can't ever see this working. Who will police it? All you will see is more people riding areas where the trails aren't groomed and where clubs have no presence. Good idea in theory but impractical in application. Will there be some sort of backcountry regulation? Hard to say. I sure hope not but the friggin' reporters better stop making "leading" statements at the closing of their broadcasts, pretty weak statements to try and instigate inflammatory responses from joe public - why don't you STFU and let joe public make the decision on their own?

4) SRS making money off the BIS - LOL - not a chance!!! Please get the facts before you say anything. In fact I'm pretty sure the SRS charged more and put a cap on the # of riders for a reason.....I don't think it was because they wanted the event held there..... Pretty sure they are trying to protect their Use Agreement with the Ministry and not making their decisions based on economics. For those that think there will be anyone wanting to continue a "BIS" like event in the future - I'm going to burst your bubble and say "highly unlikely". It will be interesting to hear about Yamafest.


A terrible tragedy - let's stop playing the blame games and focus on the root cause analysis of why this happened and what can be done in the future to prevent this. We won't learn anything from this if we don't focus on what we can improve in the future.
Just my thoughts.
 

pano-dude

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Any public speaking on behalf of sledding should probably come from the BCSF.
 

femme.fatale.

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I was listening to the Paul Brown show yesterday morning... The attitude they had made me sick, the people who were calling in made it worse. They have lost me as a listener.
 

Modman

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They cannot enforce out of province sleds to comply.

Think about it, it is the bc taxpayers paying for the rescue of mainly out of province users....

A suggestion to all who were helped would be to write a cheque to the Revy SAR and make it public.

That sounds like a slippery slope....... Likely just as many locals at the event as anyone likely, or were you in the parking lot counting BC vs AB licence plates? By the same standard then - anyone recieving free universal health care in BC should send a cheque to the federal gov't. Sound fair?
 

Mikew5j

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At the risk of violating some fine-print policy that I've overlooked while clicking.....Here's a post lifted from good ole Snowest that is worth reading:

<<Originally Posted by misterjj View Post
I, along with Browning Crew rode with Mike & Shay & their crew on Friday & Saturday. When we rode saturday in the sugar bowl & bull pen the snow was sliding in both areas...so i know that everyone knew that the avalanche danger was high. When we made it over to Turbo, Shay went up & got stuck & then I went up after him & made it to the top, I looped around & parked on the top & asked him if he needed help. He said he needed someone to hold the end of his sled so that he could pull the front of his sled around. He was to the far right & i was to the far left. So I started my sled & pulled closer to him. I jumped off of my sled & started walking down to him. I took about 10 ten steps away from my sled & realized that it would be to hard to climb back up to my sled. So I told him that i was gonna get back on my sled & drive down by him to help him. I started walking back up to my sled & i heard another sled coming. I stop & looked back for the sled...the sled come right behind him & turned to the right of him, & then out & over the top. As the rider reached the top the snow broke. When the snow broke i looked down @ Shay & could tell that he realized that the snow broke and he just kept looking @ it coming down at him...then he was gone. There were 3 or 4 riders sitting at the top of the mountain. One of the riders asked me if my friend was o.k. & i told him no that the avalanche took him. About that time the other rider that went to the right of him & to the top pulled next to the riders...the guy that asked me if my friend was ok asked the other rider why he went over the top of Shay. The rider replied that he didn't know there was a rider there. I believe that the rider was telling the truth when he said that he didn't see him. We all knew that the avalanche danger was high that day & could of accured at any time that day. As went back down the mountain there was total chaos. My hat goes off to everyone there that help rescue people. The people were very well prepared. They had beacons and probes and the knowledge to help in diaster like this one. I didn't know Curtis as well as Shay. But everytime I went to BC I rode with Shay & Mike. All the comments that are posted on here...positive or negative...will not help the families & friends of them feel any better about their loss. I arrived home on Sunday & hugged my wife and kids as I walked in the door & that is when I realized that Shay or Curtis would never be able to do the samething. Words can't decribe the sympathy I have for the families of Shay & Curtis. My heart goes out to them. In the end I feel this was very tragic accident...we all know the risk of riding in the back country...high avalanche danger or not...I don't think anyone is to blame.

Mike Augare>>

My emotions are all over the place after reading that. Everyone knew there was a high risk. They saw slides in other areas, but continued to hill climb and high mark. Despite all the education and awareness there appears to still be a huge “It wont happen to me” attitude.

Certainly this incident could have been a lot worse. It would have been if it were not for the preparedness of the sleders on the hill and the efforts of the S&R. Hats off to them.

As for the subject of children, I hole heartedly agree that sledding is a family activity. It’s about acceptable risk. Parents should be held to a higher standard an adult deciding for himself. The parent is ultimately responsible for the safety of their child. I don’t want to see any parents charged, but I imagine that the parents that brought their children along, with the condition as they were, will be doing some serious self reevaluation.

There are risks in everything we do. No getting around that. We just need to better determine what is acceptable risk, and ultimately everyone need to make that decision for themselves. But if there are many more incidences like this one, I’m afraid our ability to decide for ourselves will be taken away.

Just my frustrated opinion
 

sledslut

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a buddy of mine whos girlfriend works for Ozone just called me and said that the rcmp and media are at his store in the mall looking for Ozone right now.. like commone guys ozone doesnt have anything to do with mother nature! lay off the guy its not HIS FAULT!!
 

pirate01

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Seriously by the looks of the pics. those people we parked rite in the path of that thing. I have saw turbo slide many times . and it goes the same place every year. rite over the top of that little hill and down into the trees. I guess parking in a safe place is a difficult concept. :nono:
 

storch

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I just finished watching the 6 o'clock news and I have to say I'm getting angrier by the minute.....the RCMP is now looking into pressing charges for negligence to the parents that brought their children to Turbo Bowl on that fateful Saturday. What does this DANGEROUS precedent mean for us sledding families in the future??? Our kids sled with us every chance they get, and our 13 year old sleds with us in the mountains, and has completed his AST 1 course in January. He is more knowledgeable about snowpack and avy areas than your average person at his age. So, now because of the tragic events that have occurred in Revy, we as a knowledgeable, avalanche aware sledding family will have to suffer the consequences?? I'm sorry....but does anyone else agree with me that the media has gone totally berserk with the coverage and is making the majority of us responsible sledders look like crazy lunatics ready to rip up any slope in the worst of all avalanche conditions??? :mad:
Are you f##in kidding. What the heck is charging a parent going to do. Like I read in another post, do you get charged for driving your kid to school in a snow storm....I think not. I also think blaming the event is wrong, No one
told those guys to park where they did, No tickets sold for the event, No signs saying park here. I feel bad when any sledder gets killed, But we all know the risks. I choose my fate when I take risks....therfore no one to blame but myself if something happens. I send my prayers to the familys of the fallen 2.
 

Summiteer

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a buddy of mine whos girlfriend works for Ozone just called me and said that the rcmp and media are at his store in the mall looking for Ozone right now.. like commone guys ozone doesnt have anything to do with mother nature! lay off the guy its not HIS FAULT!!

I don't think that this can be blamed on Ozone or any one person, but if the cops want to talk to him he should oblige them.
 

jaredszakacs

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all i gotta say is thank god to quick thinking and for the people who got there wits about them and took charge this accident was tragic but could have been way worse but due to the quick thinking of our sled community a major tragedy was averted. There is no reason for charges to be laid snowmobiling is at your own risk whos to say that if the big iron didn't happen that a group of sledders wouldnt have been back there and set the slide off as well
 

lexy

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I personally do not think it is Ozones fault.....but I do believe he should of talked to the media and get the facts straight from the beginning.
 

killernewf

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Sorry to hear of this tragedy. Condolences go out to the boys family. Rest In Peace boys.
Just my little 2 cents worth. I've read of a lot of individuals commenting on why the event wasn't cancelled. Maybe or maybe not. I don't think it would have mattered at all. I know if I had driven 14 hrs from Fort Mcmurray I would have still went into the hills to play in the snow. Thats what we all go there for. People that make all these comments towards organizers that they should be charged or prosecuted should realize that of all the people that were on turbo that day probably would have been there even if it was cancelled. I know I would have.



R.I.P
 

fargineyesore

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There have been some very good arguments posted here, and good information as to what happened. Kash Heed is the Minister of Public Safety in BC. He is the one saying that regulations will be put into place. I found an email address for his department. It is as follows: pssgwebfeedback@gov.bc.ca I believe the snowmobile community must educate this individual on our sport. We must do so in a respectful and reasonable manner. Calling anti-snowmobilers (as tempting as it is) names, etc. will not help at this time. He needs to know that what happened was not part of the BIS. He needs to hear comments such as that of the lady from Oregon (sorry, can't remember her name right now). HE is the one that will be leading the imposition of regulations. Don't think that if you are from Alberta that you shouldn't put in your comments. Albertans put a lot of money into the local businesses in BC. If regulations come in that are excessively restrictive, the local communities in BC will suffer. Consider this: last year, there were over 20 avalanche deaths. This year, with the snow pack said to be worse in some respects, there have been far fewer. This shows that people are learning, and I think at a fairly rapid rate. People are taking far more notice. This incident cannot be allowed to be used to say that snowmobilers are NOT learning. Nothing could be farther from the truth. We need to tell him that it is unreasonable to expect all snowmobilers to become educated overnight. How long did it take the skiing community to learn, and on average, it has been more backcountry skiiers that have been killed in avalanches than sledders. Last year and this year (not sure of the statistics this year, I know some skiiers have died in avalanches too) may be exceptions to that, but the fact is sledders ARE learning and becoming more educated and responsible. I only make at most if lucky, two trips to mountains each year. I have not enrolled in an Avalanche course yet, but have made the decision to enrol in the course (field course) early next year. I have learned much just from being on snow and mud. I didn't realize even a year and a half ago how much I didn't know and need to know. The Minister can only make decisions on the information he knows. If he doesn't know any better, and has no input from the snowmobiling community, he may impose unfair and overly restrictive regulations. I'm sending his department an email today.
 

ajay

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Folks, "The Media" has one job: selling advertising for profit

It's not criminal, but with that singular focus you do need to realize that "the story" is just a product they craft and sell for the maximum price (via advertising dollars) to the highest bidder.

Beyond that, all bets are off.
They are accountable to no one.

MD.

X2, the media is just there to make money and promote personal media skills, nothing more. No feelings, no sympathy, no condolences, no achievements and no heroes. But we all know who the heroes are and we all have feelings for the victims and families cause we are "real" people and we like sledding weather in the back country, local groomed trails, out ice fishing or in the back yard. Just enjoying what we do!
Aj
 

Guest101

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Condolences to all involved.... but every red flag was was put up, the warning signs were there, caa had put the warning out and anyone with half a brain and any avalanche awareness would not have parked there dumb a$$es at the bottom of avalanche run out path with 60-80 cm of new snow 2 days prior. This incident makes the snowmobile community look very ignorant again!! I know if I would have been there I would have been sitting on the ridge far from harms way not at the bottom of the bowl. Hint to people who dont live and play in the mountains on a regular basis, check the avy report it is updated regularly by educated people who are in the mountains on a daily basis checking out snow conditions. It drives me crazy to think of what is going to happen to our sport because of this incident. Time to wake up people!!!! Inform yourself,get avy training,check the avy report for the area you plan to ride. Even if you did drive 10 hours from wherever to ride in our amazing mountains some days you just have to tap er cool out there, that way you can LIVE to go riding another day!!! Again my condolences to those involved and hats off to everyone involved in the search.
 

jeffmcnichol

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charging the parents sound a little harsh, a few years ago when that person was killed at the monster jam event, did all the parents that took their children to the event get charged for putting them at risk, extreme sports can have extreme consequences, and without the spectators these events wouldn't happen and the world would be a boring place, also , how many of the people that are so against these events have actually found themselves watching them on video, guaranteed almost all of them have.
 
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