Conjuring creek is private land not crown land

[Lund]

Not that i trespass on anyone's property, i don't.
But my understanding being i at one time was a ranch owner...not anymore thank god. Trespassing signs bordering private property mean nothing and carry no value or power in charging anyone. Anyone can legally cross your property and legally you cannot do anything about it other then bitch.
Unless they are put at an equal distance surrounding the property, not sure anymore of the distance. Plus an 8ft fence has to surround the property before it is considered trespassing by law.
Those where the exact words by an RCMP officer when i had construction material's stolen off my property where i was building a new hay barn. The culprits were caught as my neighbor took the licence plate number down. The materials were returned by them and i wasn't able to lay any charges because they pleaded that they were picking up the material for someone else and got the wrong address. Then i tried the trespassing charges and then was informed that it would not go anywhere because my property is NOT SECURED.
My experience and 2cents.
So private property signs means dick**** in the eyes of the law.

 

[tex78]

Unfortunately, in this lame society today

 

[LandOwner]

Not that i trespass on anyone's property, i don't.
But my understanding being i at one time was a ranch owner...not anymore thank god. Trespassing signs bordering private property mean nothing and carry no value or power in charging anyone. Anyone can legally cross your property and legally you cannot do anything about it other then bitch.
Unless they are put at an equal distance surrounding the property, not sure anymore of the distance. Plus an 8ft fence has to surround the property before it is considered trespassing by law.
Those where the exact words by an RCMP officer when i had construction material's stolen off my property where i was building a new hay barn. The culprits were caught as my neighbor took the licence plate number down. The materials were returned by them and i wasn't able to lay any charges because they pleaded that they were picking up the material for someone else and got the wrong address. Then i tried the trespassing charges and then was informed that it would not go anywhere because my property is NOT SECURED.
My experience and 2cents.
So private property signs means dick**** in the eyes of the law.

Understood. Remember that we meet and converse regularly with all enforcement levels. You will still get the odd RCMP detachment member that is not as aware as the rest we meet in person so they quickly get educated as well on the situation and what the law allows. They are not always up on this when it comes to trespassing ....fun huh?
That may have been what you experienced because a lot of what you posted is opposite of what we discuss and what the trespass act contains:

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/P11.pdf

The notice section is helpful and that is what the RCMP and County have asked us to maintain, which we do.

P.S. People have been actually been charged. So proof is in the pudding, as they say.

 

[LandOwner]

Wow Mr. Landowner, I see how frustrated you are and how well you are managing to stay composed. We've had enraged property owners on here before who do themselves no favors - name calling, issuing threats, etc.. Even though I personally try to be as respectful as possible, your posts have educated me a little as to the issues some landowners face and why many of them are so angry. I'm sure you have reached a few others as well. ...a small step, but a step none the less.

Thanks! I appreciate the comments. I'm learning stuff here too which is helpful. There are a lot of responsible OHV users and groups - this is good to see. I started out very angry but you can only do that for so long before it consumes you or ruins you or you run away from the problem - which I totally understand as I have considered giving up many times myself. I'm in this until it is done and resolved. Starting with my land, helping my neighbors do the same next, and then the rest of the entire creek land by talking to those that are not nearby neighbors and offering solutions and help. I'm sure giving up many of the things I normally like to do but problems don't get solved unless someone owns it and keeps at it. I'm motivated. I'm sure I'll get some neighbors that tell me to go away but I suspect most will welcome the help and discussion. We started with 2 neighbors banding together and now we are up to 6. That covers a lot of the land and lot of the creek already.

 

[LandOwner]

Wish I could help more. Gave you all my ideas and you have heard from some good guys and some that push the issue no matter what. Some guys don't it I guess. You don't need the abuse you just want your land back. Good luck

Thanks
I'll post updates here - good or bad - on how things go.

 

[Ronaha]

I creek ride in the winter. I stick to the ice, never litter, pick up any litter I see, don't have loud pipes, very responsible......others ruin it, and this said creek is winter ridin by local farmers aswel.

 

[arff]

We used to live on the farm by Thorsby.

I think may of us understand your situation. It is tough.

I hope you realize it's just a very small percentage of bad apples that cause these issues.

 

[LandOwner]

We used to live on the farm by Thorsby.

I think may of us understand your situation. It is tough.

I hope you realize it's just a very small percentage of bad apples that cause these issues.

I would have disagreed with you about the small percentage but it is true given what I've learned on these sites about how many OHV users there are. It is still a BIG problem for this area. My cameras a good evidence on how many and how many return. I can comfortably estimate around 500 distinct trespassers per year. That is what I mean by BIG. Imagine 500 people coming through your property every year without any permission - or maybe you did have this level. The creek is what makes in appealing. If it wasn't there we would not have much of a problem.

By the way, it is not just local people. The farmers around here respect each other and do not trespass. All the people of confronted and called in are from surrounding area as far Edmonton. That is another reason I came on here because if some are travelling over 40 kms to offroad here, I figured there must be posts on forums telling people where to go to get here and what kind of trails there are. On that front, I not finding anything like this and that surprises me.

 

[imdoo'n]

hopefully your message get across to those responsible.

 

[Lem Lamb]

We farm in the county of Lacombe, and we don't see much crown land till you go West to the furthest end on the county.
The crown land with-in this county is range land, and the farmers that pay a fee too rent this grazing lease land have the say of whether one can access it or not "during grazing lease" time of year. Most will not allow access at cattle time. County enforcement will ticket those for trespassing on grazing lease land, been this way for 20 ish years now.

We run cattle, horses so all our land is fenced, 90% or more is all fenced off in the county of Lacombe as well as Red Deer and Ponoka. We had the snowmobile trail threw our land back in the day 30 ish years ago when it started,,, but that all come too and end when the odd person would ripping through with loud pipes at 2am in the morning. That was the end of the ASA trail system on this side of the county.

Sled trail closed and the access gates over time were removed with solid fenced corner too corner. Very hard to sled in the winter time when most fields are fenced off now.
OHV's were not a factor in our district since a county of Lacombe band came into affect when 2 crop-land fields got hit by OHV's in the summer time 6 or 7 years ago,,, county has now lifted this band allowing OHV's for farm use as a trial. This is too ride short sections of road too access our farm operations.

Our creeks are dry this year, so not very good for canoeing un-less it rains for a week or so. We put in water stations in for the cattle too drink from so their not trashing the creek banks,,, been doing this for 15 years now.

Our County now has a day and night time county enforcement system of 24 hours a day, all farmers in our area attend meetings every 4 months as we all know one another including nab-ours... We share info between us at coffee shops and county meetings that take care of issues as they arise. Each district has a voted in county-councilor that all of us know,,, most voted in are farms that are our nab-ours.

Nab-our Hood-Watch is on going from 8 pm till 6 am in our district that watches for vehicles, ohv's in summer. Sleds don't matter now that they need to use the ditches that are not snowmobile friendly,,, not much for sleds since the closer of the sled trail system.

Pasture and crop land does not work for OHV's.

We are selves go out West too crown land un-less we are working our land or helping our nab-ours with their farm operations. We call it "keeping the peace" since its only fair.
One needs permission too access other's land, or you can bet that the County Enforcement officer will be contacting you with a 1 time warning.

It would be nice too have access to ride where ever, but times have changed and some folks just don't like the hassle of garbage, chewed up crop & pasture land on the rolly hills. Loud mufflers wrecked it for most since we like a good nights sleep.

Most folks, and I mean most folks are real good at respect, but the 0.1 and 1% made it not worth the effort.

We spend our time fixing and maintaining trails in the West, and camp spots/ staging areas. Many here on S&M do the same, so this I share with all.

We are farmers and out-door folk at the same time, same can be said about many of us on this forum, some are town and city folk that have this same respect.
Yes there are those that do not have this hart spark "yet", but over time this mind set will come into play.

Hats off too all for keeping this thread in check as LandOwner and his nab-ours that want too protect the water shed from un necessary erosion for fish in that creek. Good to protect what we can.

Why not go too crown land since its less hassle.

Pal Don

 

[Kaz Dog]

Why not go too crown land since its less hassle. Pal Don

Don, I hear you and respect what is going on in your area.

The Crown Land issue has come to a head with the Regional Planning process. "Out west" is now under the microscope with our current government, thanks to the process put in place by a former government. The crown land of the future will not be like the crown land of the past, be that a designated trail system, closed areas, or somewhere in between. The idea that it will keep going like it has - with all the current open areas and first-come, first-served to backcountry camping - may, and very well may change.

Just stuff I am hearing at the meetings for Regional Planning I am attending.

 

[fargineyesore]

I would have disagreed with you about the small percentage but it is true given what I've learned on these sites about how many OHV users there are. It is still a BIG problem for this area. My cameras a good evidence on how many and how many return. I can comfortably estimate around 500 distinct trespassers per year. That is what I mean by BIG. Imagine 500 people coming through your property every year without any permission - or maybe you did have this level. The creek is what makes in appealing. If it wasn't there we would not have much of a problem.

By the way, it is not just local people. The farmers around here respect each other and do not trespass. All the people of confronted and called in are from surrounding area as far Edmonton. That is another reason I came on here because if some are travelling over 40 kms to offroad here, I figured there must be posts on forums telling people where to go to get here and what kind of trails there are. On that front, I not finding anything like this and that surprises me.

Not sure how people get to the creek if it is surrounded by private land? Are they coming into it off the roads that cross the creek? Is the creek covered by a county reserve lot? Sometimes creeks are within a County Reserve lot. Sounds like you are going about dealing with the trespassers in a way that will work. Eventually word will get out.

I do have issues with the fences across the creek though, as I'd hope that someone doesn't get hurt by that, would be terrible to have that on your concience. If someone is riding a sled on the frozen creek, it is not trespassing on private land if the stay on the frozen creek. Hopefully no one gets hurt by the fences.

 

[WarrenG]

Making any progress on eliminating people from riding on your land over the summer?

 

[MADKAWI]

A serious question here... How am I going to canoe down a creek with a fence across it??


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[MADKAWI]

And I don't think ATV's should be tearing up and down the creeks or it's banks for that matter but what I'm seeing is more and more riding areas being taken away so the riding areas that are open see much much more traffic.
Would be nice to see more ATV specific riding areas opened up rather than shutdown then maybe people wouldn't have the need to ride up and down creeks.

The other thing to consider is awareness. I'll admit I'm one of those guys that used to wash my quad off in the creek but I don't do that anymore and although it seems like common sense I honestly didn't think when I was doing it I was doing any harm to the fish. Now that I'm an avid fisherman as well as an ATV rider I do see that we shouldn't be intentionally ripping up and down the creek however I don't see a problem with slowly crossing a stream as it's no different then a boat with a gas motor ripping up and down our waterways.

As for a couple of dirt bikers wheelying past someone's head, that's really not even worth talking about we have people that drive vehicles all day every day that do stupid things so that really has nothing to do with the OHV community that's just people that just plain and simple don't have any respect for others and we have those a$$-holes all over the place has nothing at all to do with the OHV community.


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[arff]

And I don't think ATV's should be tearing up and down the creeks or it's banks for that matter but what I'm seeing is more and more riding areas being taken away so the riding areas that are open see much much more traffic.
Would be nice to see more ATV specific riding areas opened up rather than shutdown then maybe people wouldn't have the need to ride up and down creeks.

The other thing to consider is awareness. I'll admit I'm one of those guys that used to wash my quad off in the creek but I don't do that anymore and although it seems like common sense I honestly didn't think when I was doing it I was doing any harm to the fish. Now that I'm an avid fisherman as well as an ATV rider I do see that we shouldn't be intentionally ripping up and down the creek however I don't see a problem with slowly crossing a stream as it's no different then a boat with a gas motor ripping up and down our waterways.

As for a couple of dirt bikers wheelying past someone's head, that's really not even worth talking about we have people that drive vehicles all day every day that do stupid things so that really has nothing to do with the OHV community that's just people that just plain and simple don't have any respect for others and we have those a$$-holes all over the place has nothing at all to do with the OHV community.


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Can a atv drive down a frozen creek

 

[neilsleder]

Depends how frozen it is lol


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[Lem Lamb]

Mostly not frozen in August, but depends on where you live I guess.

South Pole would be good.

 

[lilduke]

Can a atv drive down a frozen creek

Not this one, its private!

 

[MADKAWI]

Are they legally allowed to put a fence across a waterway? I see it all the time and I wonder if I'm fishing or hiking down the creek how the heck do I get across the fence safely you know I might fall off the fence and have to sue the landowner if you know what I'm saying...