Blown Engine on 04 Summit 800

[imdoo'n]

Avice from a guy that's blown 3 motors;let me get my pen and write this down......just sayin

maybe pull your head out of your azz. think outside the box, ever seen a racer take a motor easy on the track. but you read the owners manual. putz. take it as you see fit rowdy, i tell it like it is,


look it up yourself, www.mototuneusa.com/breakinsecrets.htm

 

[~Rowdy~]

Come on now gents I am looking for consistent advice! Otherwise I get confuzzled!!!

 

[Puba]

Come on now gents I am looking for consistent advice! Otherwise I get confuzzled!!!

Consistent advice;

Please make sure when posting pictures of the sled & rebuild that you are in everyone :d nothin hotter than a chick wrenchin her own sled in bib overalls and a tank top

 

[fatguy1]

Rowdy!, both of these guys are making some valid points however I won't totally agree with either...

#1 the piston rings DO NOT spin. there is a locating pin on the intake side of the piston that keep the ring in it's happy place. If it spun it would catch the exhaust port and that would be Bad Eats.
#2 I've heard the legends of braking in a motor on mineral oil and used to do this on my rebuilds, but the last two have been on 100% Amsoil and they haven't missed a beat. (however oil doesn't go bad, I would suggest running the mineral for the first tank just to be safe)
#3 Yes, premix the first tank also but one full liter is a touch too much for me. To meet emmisions hardly any oil is injected at an idle and no oil in a new motor = Bad Eats
#4 I heat cycle my motors, but not till the temp light comes on, thats too high. Start the sled and run it till you can feel heat in the rear heat exchanger with your hand (then you know the engine is hot to the point were the thermostat has opened) then shut the sled off and wait for it to cool stone cold. Repeat a couple more times before riding.

 

[rusty]

maybe pull your head out of your azz. think outside the box, ever seen a racer take a motor easy on the track. but you read the owners manual. putz. take it as you see fit rowdy, i tell it like it is,

That was a quote from a race sled manual.. but i never meant to offend just educate,
Race teams also have a battery of spare motors and rebuild after every race. They use different oil and fuels. And also have an unlimited budget. Built in a class 5 contaminant free shop. Not anywhere else. With the very best technicians using the best parts. And they too have engine failure.

You know what, your absolutley right in your opinion i will not take that from you, I am simply adding my opinion in an objective manner. Do as you choose with the motors you have paid to have rebuilt. I am stating my opinion and assisting with the facts in front of me.
I would and will give you the very same advise.

Do you really know all these facts.... or are you just trying to be helpfull. I know i am a person who wants to see Rowdy succeed in her project. Do you contest that my method would be unsuccessfull. If so please educate me, please include reference material. I admit to not having all the answers but i can type word for word like i did in the above post. And i love learning from people who have a better ideas.


This is not a slight rather a statement of where i got my info from. Lets get past this, and get this thread back on track.
Rowdy do as you choose, the responsibility is yours. And your doing a top notch job.

 

[imdoo'n]

I've read alot of ownwers manuals and never ever ever have i heard that before.

engine break in takes an entire tank full of 100:1 plus the onboard oil system
engine throttle should never go over 50% for that entire tank,
once you start the engine for the first time, heat cycle engine. run it until the light comes on, shut it down and let it cool. this is the time to look for loose clamps and leaks, This is excatly what they do at PDI
As for ring seating.. rings never seat, they spin, so i call bullsh_t, a properly honed cylinder will hold enough oil in it to assist in patternering of the rings.
if there is a ring issue you will find out in like 12 seconds
I will take a quote from the owners manual of a sled i owned

"The engine (when new or rebuilt) requires a short break in period before the engine is subjected to heavy load conditions.
During break-in, a maximum of 1/2 throttle is recommended;however brief full throttle accelerations and variations in driving speed contribute to good engine break in."

But hey what do i know.. the whole ride it like its stolen method sounds legit

how is a ring supposed to spin aganist the locating pin you friggin morron, you don't know ch!t. and just proved it.

 

[fatguy1]

maybe pull your head out of your azz. think outside the box, ever seen a racer take a motor easy on the track. but you read the owners manual. putz. take it as you see fit rowdy, i tell it like it is,


look it up yourself, www.mototuneusa.com/breakinsecrets.htm

Good Read!, I don't like his choice of break in oil for snowmobile use but that's just my 2 cents.

 

[maxwell]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK


DISREGARD what some are saying. there is some good advice here aswell.

heres my take and my experience. there is no right answer but this one is pretty damn close LOOOOOOL.


1. fill the water pump cavity with oil i cant remember if it is from the factory but it might be. top it up anyways.
2.bleed oil system ( hold oil pump wide open for 2 minutes while engine is running use a coat hanger)
3. run 50:1 in the first TANK only. MINERAL OIL and monitor oil usage
4. lift front of sled up about 1-2ft and top up coolant this will ensure it is cycling. top up as required with engine running.
5. cycle engine THREE times up to operating temperature and let cool completely between and check for leaks/ rubbing parts
6. BAG ON IT. avoid wide open pulls of more than 2-3 seconds for the first tank only.

 

[fatguy1]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK


DISREGARD what some are saying. there is some good advice here aswell.

heres my take and my experience. there is no right answer but this one is pretty damn close LOOOOOOL.


1. fill the water pump cavity with oil i cant remember if it is from the factory but it might be. top it up anyways.
2.bleed oil system ( hold oil pump wide open for 2 minutes while engine is running use a coat hanger)
3. run 50:1 in the first TANK only. MINERAL OIL and monitor oil usage
4. lift front of sled up about 1-2ft and top up coolant this will ensure it is cycling. top up as required with engine running.
5. cycle engine THREE times up to operating temperature and let cool completely between and check for leaks/ rubbing parts
6. BAG ON IT. avoid wide open pulls of more than 2-3 seconds for the first tank only.

Yup!, good post Maxwell. just watch the coat hanger, don't want that in the clutch.

 

[imdoo'n]

the second most common cause of engine failure is easy break in, rings won't seal and you get blowby. and your best ring seal is in the 1st 20 miles or so. heat cycling the engine has no effect on metal in your engine, you cannot get it hot enough to have any effect. and this falicy comes from peeps who have no understanding of heat treating metal. any heat treating has to be done before engine assembly to have any effect.

friggin read the thread .

 

[maxwell]

and honestly your wasting your money on synthetic oil IMO. others will disagree. brp mineral is the way to go for the HO

 

[imdoo'n]

Good Read!, I don't like his choice of break in oil for snowmobile use but that's just my 2 cents.

he is using a 4 stroke motor as an example, thus oil used. you can use any oil you wish, use the best mineral oil you can afford etc. check rktech site he advises against synthetic oil period.


and now god well says the same.

 

[rusty]

this is a great read, Happy to see everyone helping out.

 

[rusty]

I do apologize for mistyping, ring spin happens in a 4 stroke application. However rings do move, they may not spin in a 2 stroke application but they do indeed move.

 

[maxwell]

very minuscule if anything

 

[rusty]

very minuscule if anything

Enough for lubricant to get there would you agree.They are definetly not stationary.

 

[fatguy1]

you can use any oil you wish, use the best mineral oil you can afford etc. check rktech site he advises against synthetic oil period.


and now god well says the same.

Easy buddy, I'm with ya! it's just that I don't believe every thing I read on the internet. I believe you can heat cycle a motor incorrectly because that's how you colapse a forged Piston. Now Rowdy doesn't have Forged pistons, the cast ones are not as prone to those issues, lucky for her!!!.

And RKTech doesn't believe in running amsoil period... Said so in the instructions my buddy got with his dual ring piston kit.

Have have ran Amsoil for three years with no issues, and no engine failures.

I valve everyones opinion/advice on here and just what to state a couple of my own opinions based on my experince.:d:d:d

 

[heavy d]

Hey, lookin' good. I'll give u my 0.02 as well

Heat cycling....A must !!! at least 3 times. Run untill operating to high temp, shut down until completely cool.

100:1 min in first tank, mineral or synthetic....the argument is effin rhetorical now days.....no synthetic on break in is about 20 yr old oil technology....BS !! RUN WHAT YOU WANT TO RUN

Drive it the way you are going to drive it on break in.....just don't hold it to the bar for an extended period for the first tank.............after that to the bar '''till you reach the top.

And again for the longevity of your bottom end plaese heat cycle it 3 times

Ultimately, you'll do what you want, all I can offer is my expierience, I hauilt many many motors for myself and friend in everything from rods to toys, and this is what consistently works for me.

Good luck with start up........your doin' great

 

[~Rowdy~]

Ok...So what do you guys mean by heat up 3 times. Just let it idle in the shop until hot then shut off and let cool 3 times? Or run on the trail until hot and shut off and let cool? Also, my sled doesn't have a temp guage...so how do I know she's "hot"? I mean she's a sexy sled but...

 

[polarice]

Ok...So what do you guys mean by heat up 3 times. Just let it idle in the shop until hot then shut off and let cool 3 times? Or run on the trail until hot and shut off and let cool? Also, my sled doesn't have a temp guage...so how do I know she's "hot"? I mean she's a sexy sled but...

the one post refers to the rear heat exchanger being hot to the touch and in the shop