2018 Yamaha Sidewinder MTX 162 Build

[Lund]

Personally i would look into gearing the sled up before proceeding any further. Use what is working and gear up, then go back to the clutches, imo.
These things are gear too low for what your trying to accomplish.
Last season our Winder team ran 3 different ratio's in 3 different Winder's and the Winders with the taller ratio's just plainly worked better in climbing and deep long pull's. The stock ratio worked best in the tree's and deep snow tree riding but for climbing it fell short to the other's constantly not generating similar track speed numbers. The stock ratio will get you 55-58mph on stock tune, while the other 2 were seeing speeds into the 60's on stock tune.
The stock ratio imo is handicapping your sled and making it difficult to set up, especially with your tune.

A problem to this clutch tuning and gearing is, we as tuner's have been doing this for decades with the mentality of 2 strokes in mind and maybe at first that was ok as our 4 stroke tuning knowledge was limited or non existing. One of the problem with many clutch tuning literature today is mostly directed to 2 strokes and no consideration to a 4 strokes power delivery and curve or the info is limited, plus even some of it is old school thinking forgetting engines are evolving, plus alot of it is more suitable for flat land use not mountain.
The reliance on low gears to make torque is a 2 stroke mentality and imo you let these new Winder's 998 engine do the work. The Winder 998 wants to be loaded, it begs for it and if you handicap it through gearing and light clutching it won't perform or make power as it could.

I ran last season 2.33 ratio with 73g of clutch weight pulling a 174x3 track on stock tune with zero belt issues. I changed it out at about 1000k maybe 1200 as a precaution. In the tree's the sled worked flawless and steady BUT not as strong as stock to be honest BUT on climb's in the deep always saw 60++mph and belt dust was nearly nonexistent, clutch NEVER hot to burn. I let the engine do the work and that is the difference in how i setup compared to the other guy, load it till she pukes through gears and clutching.

This up coming season i won't be on a stock tune and after doing my home work i have chosen an appropriate tune for my application. With the torque delivery of the new tune i expect to be gearing up from the 2.33 to either 2.16 or 2.08. It depends if i can get a chain for the 2.16, still haven't heard from my supplier.
As for clutching i don't expect to do more then a simple helix and spring change. I'm willing to bet i will see over 70mph this season on pull's and maintain good belt life and completely tree riding friendly.

Essentially your sled is a higher powered sled with lower gear's, pulling a shorter track.

 

[Xmrider163]

Personally i would look into gearing the sled up before proceeding any further. Use what is working and gear up, then go back to the clutches, imo.
These things are gear too low for what your trying to accomplish.
Last season our Winder team ran 3 different ratio's in 3 different Winder's and the Winders with the taller ratio's just plainly worked better in climbing and deep long pull's. The stock ratio worked best in the tree's and deep snow tree riding but for climbing it fell short to the other's constantly not generating similar track speed numbers. The stock ratio will get you 55-58mph on stock tune, while the other 2 were seeing speeds into the 60's on stock tune.
The stock ratio imo is handicapping your sled and making it difficult to set up, especially with your tune.

A problem to this clutch tuning and gearing is, we as tuner's have been doing this for decades with the mentality of 2 strokes in mind and maybe at first that was ok as our 4 stroke tuning knowledge was limited or non existing. One of the problem with many clutch tuning literature today is mostly directed to 2 strokes and no consideration to a 4 strokes power delivery and curve or the info is limited, plus even some of it is old school thinking forgetting engines are evolving, plus alot of it is more suitable for flat land use not mountain.
The reliance on low gears to make torque is a 2 stroke mentality and imo you let these new Winder's 998 engine do the work. The Winder 998 wants to be loaded, it begs for it and if you handicap it through gearing and light clutching it won't perform or make power as it could.

I ran last season 2.33 ratio with 73g of clutch weight pulling a 174x3 track on stock tune with zero belt issues. I changed it out at about 1000k maybe 1200 as a precaution. In the tree's the sled worked flawless and steady BUT not as strong as stock to be honest BUT on climb's in the deep always saw 60++mph and belt dust was nearly nonexistent, clutch NEVER hot to burn. I let the engine do the work and that is the difference in how i setup compared to the other guy, load it till she pukes through gears and clutching.

This up coming season i won't be on a stock tune and after doing my home work i have chosen an appropriate tune for my application. With the torque delivery of the new tune i expect to be gearing up from the 2.33 to either 2.16 or 2.08. It depends if i can get a chain for the 2.16, still haven't heard from my supplier.
As for clutching i don't expect to do more then a simple helix and spring change. I'm willing to bet i will see over 70mph this season on pull's and maintain good belt life and completely tree riding friendly.

Essentially your sled is a higher powered sled with lower gear's, pulling a shorter track.

That was partially the reason for changing clutching to improve belt life aswell. And to get into the 70-75mph range.

 

[kanedog]

Personally i would look into gearing the sled up before proceeding any further. Use what is working and gear up, then go back to the clutches, imo.
These things are gear too low for what your trying to accomplish.
Last season our Winder team ran 3 different ratio's in 3 different Winder's and the Winders with the taller ratio's just plainly worked better in climbing and deep long pull's. The stock ratio worked best in the tree's and deep snow tree riding but for climbing it fell short to the other's constantly not generating similar track speed numbers. The stock ratio will get you 55-58mph on stock tune, while the other 2 were seeing speeds into the 60's on stock tune.
The stock ratio imo is handicapping your sled and making it difficult to set up, especially with your tune.

A problem to this clutch tuning and gearing is, we as tuner's have been doing this for decades with the mentality of 2 strokes in mind and maybe at first that was ok as our 4 stroke tuning knowledge was limited or non existing. One of the problem with many clutch tuning literature today is mostly directed to 2 strokes and no consideration to a 4 strokes power delivery and curve or the info is limited, plus even some of it is old school thinking forgetting engines are evolving, plus alot of it is more suitable for flat land use not mountain.
The reliance on low gears to make torque is a 2 stroke mentality and imo you let these new Winder's 998 engine do the work. The Winder 998 wants to be loaded, it begs for it and if you handicap it through gearing and light clutching it won't perform or make power as it could.

I ran last season 2.33 ratio with 73g of clutch weight pulling a 174x3 track on stock tune with zero belt issues. I changed it out at about 1000k maybe 1200 as a precaution. In the tree's the sled worked flawless and steady BUT not as strong as stock to be honest BUT on climb's in the deep always saw 60++mph and belt dust was nearly nonexistent, clutch NEVER hot to burn. I let the engine do the work and that is the difference in how i setup compared to the other guy, load it till she pukes through gears and clutching.

This up coming season i won't be on a stock tune and after doing my home work i have chosen an appropriate tune for my application. With the torque delivery of the new tune i expect to be gearing up from the 2.33 to either 2.16 or 2.08. It depends if i can get a chain for the 2.16, still haven't heard from my supplier.
As for clutching i don't expect to do more then a simple helix and spring change. I'm willing to bet i will see over 70mph this season on pull's and maintain good belt life and completely tree riding friendly.

Essentially your sled is a higher powered sled with lower gear's, pulling a shorter track.

You didn't take it low enough with low gears. There's a point with low gears where the effect is the same as high gears, maybe even less sometimes. It's after that point the gains for every gear change very noticeable. This is hard to get to because the gears aren't available. The sled won't be at 1-1 at 65mph. You can't do it with the available stock Yamaha gears. Now don't get all butthurt and defensive. There is always a better way or else nothing would improve. Think outside the box. Remember that. Great r &d. Those Yamaha chaincases are a nightmare. I like the description of what you did.

 

[Tuesday]

Canuck 5 and I have very similar set ups and I did a pile of testing last year. With a datalogger makes it pretty easy to cut out the guess work. For deep days, which we mostly rode last year I found the best bang for the buck was around Dayltons loaded to 65g and Orange black spring in primary. In 3 ft of deep snow wot throttle across a lake or deep snow would generate around low 60s mph track speed. More weight in the secondary had the same track speed but it felt like it took longer to spool up. As mentioned we are not chute climbers so we are after the most power and quickest throttle response. Every time I hear 65+mph and 70+g of weight I just cant help but think the snow is set up or lower snow conditions. Last year was unreal deep and all my logging and testing was in deep snow. Interesting enough logs show sled spools to 16.4lb pretty quick but if you hold it wot long enough it will creep up to 17.1lbs. Takes an uncomfortable amount of time to get there but it does hit 17 eventually. Looks like a couple of the vids in deep snow a coupler would have help keep the front end down and keep track speeds up. Wheelies kill the momentum pretty quick.

I ran this last year, helps a ton to set up.
http://www.nextstagegauges.com/ns1-gauge-system

 

[pfi572]

That gauge is the chit .

 

[Tuesday]

Boost logs from a couple of runs at end of season.

 

[Tuesday]

RPMS over wot deep snow.

 

[Tuesday]

Few others, full map and speed this run didnt even break 60mph.

 

[Tuesday]

The logs make it look like things, esp the rpms are jumping around alot. You have to remember its reading something silly like every 1/10th of a second. Any small change of snow conditions or load will make rpms jump around. I have a lot of miles on boosted 4 strokes so anyone that says they can look at a gauge for 6-7 second wot pull at full speed a boost continuously are not telling the truth. We have all seen on the 4s if you watch the gauges the rpms always jump around a bit.

Anyone looking at a gauge I cant say enough at how awesome it is. Dattalogging, heads up gps, full screen gauges, plug and play set up, I love it. Still a few things could be revised by Stephan is working on it.

 

[skegpro]

Hmm stage 4 winder can't pull 60mph?

But Lund can get 70 mph on a stock tune?

 

[Lunch_Box]

Hmm stage 4 winder can't pull 60mph?

But Lund can get 70 mph on a stock tune?

First Lund can't get 70mph with a stock tune. I believe he was mid 60's if I recall correctly, damn impressive for a 174 and no tune.

But I agree these numbers do seem low, I was seeing mid 70mph on my stage 4 Evo tune with 2-3 feet of fresh. But really what needs to happen is to have all these sleds on the same hill same day to have some fun playing around and comparing. Be a great way to meet other riders, share experience and knowledge and drown out the 2 strokes on the mountain.

 

[Xmrider163]

First Lund can't get 70mph with a stock tune. I believe he was mid 60's if I recall correctly, damn impressive for a 174 and no tune.

But I agree these numbers do seem low, I was seeing mid 70mph on my stage 4 Evo tune with 2-3 feet of fresh. But really what needs to happen is to have all these sleds on the same hill same day to have some fun playing around and comparing. Be a great way to meet other riders, share experience and knowledge and drown out the 2 strokes on the mountain.

Ya a Sidewinder Day would be a blast. And to see how everyone’s setups feel and compare.

 

[Lunch_Box]

Ya a Sidewinder Day would be a blast. And to see how everyone’s setups feel and compare.

Well if you live in Beaumont then you are about 5 minutes away from me, so could easily meet up with some of the guys from BC.

 

[Xmrider163]

Well if you live in Beaumont then you are about 5 minutes away from me, so could easily meet up with some of the guys from BC.

Yep we can make something work for sure.

 

[Andrew.renegade1000]

Were heading out Boxing Day riding 27,28,29. In blue river and maybe one day in valemount! Staying in valemount! All doo riders with me but ill have my sidewinder!!

 

[Lunch_Box]

Were heading out Boxing Day riding 27,28,29. In blue river and maybe one day in valemount! Staying in valemount! All doo riders with me but ill have my sidewinder!!

I don't get back into the country until the 29th. But I have a cabin in Valemount and will be out there from the 30th-5th.

 

[Xmrider163]

Were heading out Boxing Day riding 27,28,29. In blue river and maybe one day in valemount! Staying in valemount! All doo riders with me but ill have my sidewinder!!

I’ll be in the Mcbride/valemount area close to then might come ride with you for a day. See what happens over the Xmas break.

 

[Andrew.renegade1000]

I’ll be in the Mcbride/valemount area close to then might come ride with you for a day. See what happens over the Xmas break.

Awesome sounds good!! We’ll be in touch around then

 

[Tuesday]

I agree it would a hoot if we could get together and compare apples to apples.

 

[Lund]

Hmm stage 4 winder can't pull 60mph?

But Lund can get 70 mph on a stock tune?

skegpro, i can not get close to 70mph, the average last season was low 60's. 63-64mph on most climbs. On one or two occasion i saw a little more like 67mph on one climb and it could had been the right condition for it but not the norm, even though it was nearly 2ft deep from what i recall. This is why i claim 60++mph because that is what it is.
The point i try to make considering track speed with the SW is more that if your riding a SW with no tune, the consensus is 55-60mph track speed in complete stock form from the dealer is what i'm hearing from others.
The SW has plenty of wiggle room to improve on that tuning to push it over 60mph, how much over, well that depends and that is the point.
With mine i've manage to pull pretty regularly 63-64mph and maintain descent belt life and i'm not the only one, i believe EZ-smoke (Erik) is seeing similar number's from his SW, with a similar set up as my SW.