2018 Sidewinder 162 Build

[Kibbels]

Thought I would share some pics... late start to this I know. I'm leaving my Sidewinder a 162 as I enjoy how fun it is and well I'm just gonna buy the 2020 Mountain Max 170SR anyways ..... It's not going to be anything spectacular however I'm going to work more on the performance than anything with this sled.

I'm a huge CR fan as Chad builds such epic products and I like to support CDN Market.
CR Boards & Bumper
EVO CAI & Charge Tubes (All go Customs)
Hurricane 270 HE Tune (I'm going to try this and next is machining out CS with larger billet wheel)
OSP Belt adjuster
2019 Arctic Cat Magnetic Tether (This thing is the chit)
Waiting on LW CR Hood , Skinz Seat, BDX parts, titanium front bumper.
Removed unnecessary items and materials...
I'm missing stuff lol....

 

[Lund]

Awesome looking build Kibbel's. I love what your doing to it.
I finally got my CR bumper tunnel stiffener kit. Like your but black.

 

[Trukker]

That's my next mod for sure .

Nice build Kibbels !

 

[Turblue]

Man I am a huge fan of the hi-viz colour...always have been. Looks stellar!!!

 

[Xmrider163]

Looks awesome buddy!!

 

[bjd68]

That is one sweet looking sidewinder

 

[Kibbels]

So just rode Boulder for 2 days and had fair to good weather conditions with excellent early season snow.

Ran first day with Thunder Product @ 65.3 and bounced rev limiter all day long. So didn’t get a fair assessment.
Changed out to STI to 78.7 and was huge difference however I left 200-250 on the table so will change that -2 ish or ...That put me at 8600 and 66 mph track speed however my sec is lacking with stock spring so will install stiffer to gain back shift back as when I catch air climbing and land I’m at 7700 rpm & 58-59 mph but then I gain it back too slow.
So just gotta do some refinements.
Overall I’m impressed with Hurricane Tune ... is it truly 270?? I say not but for few hundred bucks it’s pretty awesome & fast.
The QS3 lock out is not enough at all to hold front down with extra HP & Tq. So going to add the CR QC to try and mitigate the wheelie machine.
There is so much to be had with these SW ... it’s really amazing.
Honestly I really should do 174 ... but to cheap!! Catman10 Sidewinder 174 with RE Coupler is a billy goat that’s no word of a lie.. that bugger just hits a wall and skis stay planted... I’ve had a few yamahas with the RE skid and geesh they are awesome.

Anyways just a little early season ride report ... overall it was was awesome.

And of course Zalas was spot on... excellent service, friendly and so good!!!

 

[Lund]

You might be shifting out, it kinda sounds like it and i wouldn't doubt it, the MTX are geared too low.

 

[Kibbels]

You might be shifting out, it kinda sounds like it and i wouldn't doubt it, the MTX are geared too low.

i also forgot to mention the first day I blew a belt bouncing off limiter ... and it’s at 9200. So I assume the primary was the culprit being under clutched... dunno... but I did fly over the bars!! I’m getting to old for that.. lol

 

[Lund]

You might be shifting out, it kinda sounds like it and i wouldn't doubt it, the MTX are geared too low.

This is what i mean, generally speaking.
When a sled is geared low the clutches will have the tendency to operate in the upper portion of their sheave's(higher clutch ratio) because of less load being applied from the mechanical advantage of the gear ratio. The problem of this is the clutch weight travel past their fulcrum point and secondary clutch back shift is drastically effected as it takes alot more spring tension to back shift.
Most will go and change out the spring or increase the spring tension on the secondary clutch, the problem with this is you are essentially reducing the clamping force of the primary weights now and defeating its purpose and will most likely increase belt heat.

A solution is to gear up, by doing so your now going to cause the clutches to operate in the lower portion of their sheaves (lower clutch shift ratio) because of the increase load applied by taller mechanical gear ratio. This will make the clutch weights operate closer to the crank and not past the fulcrum point, so now back shift will remain more consistent.

This will also help your sled from flat lining like it did, where it won't back shift or pickup rpm's but hold below spec's rpm like your does "8600"
The reason it did this is most likely, it over shifted because of the combination of heavy weights combined with low gear ratio's(causing the belt to operate in the higher clutch ratio as i mentioned above).

The MTX, IMO are gear to low for our riding areas, these were calibrated more for Colorado where riding is done at 8-10,000ft. We ride realistically 5-7,000ft and such low gear ratio's are not needed and will in fact effect the over all performance of the sled.

Anyhow that my observation, BTW, i run MTX 162" gearing with a 174" track and i know i have room to improve that, i can feel it in the engine, it likes to be loaded, like any engine. You want HP, you need to load it.
Food for thought

 

[Lund]

i also forgot to mention the first day I blew a belt bouncing off limiter ... and it’s at 9200. So I assume the primary was the culprit being under clutched... dunno... but I did fly over the bars!! I’m getting to old for that.. lol

LOL.....that sucks

 

[Lund]

To add to the confusion of the conversation, another aspect is the weight profile and weight of the flyweight it self.
The profile IMO is more important then the weight in grams as it has a direct effect on the engine load in relation to the engine torque curve.
Switching from one profile to another adds to the confusion, so you need to know what profile weight will work for you and work with that.
A more aggressive profile works better for hill climbing when you have the HP, or for big track speeds, while a less aggressive profile is what's needed in tree style or boondocking type riding. Looking at the weights, the more aggressive will be flatter and heavier toed, while the less aggressive will be more curved and lighter toed.
The weights in gram's general rule is every one gram added or subtracted is equivalent to about 200rpm's up or down.
So in your case using the STI that are in now, removing 2 grams will most likely get you back into the range of 8750. The weight would be removed from the tip.

 

[kanedog]

This is what i mean, generally speaking.
When a sled is geared low the clutches will have the tendency to operate in the upper portion of their sheave's(higher clutch ratio) because of less load being applied from the mechanical advantage of the gear ratio. The problem of this is the clutch weight travel past their fulcrum point and secondary clutch back shift is drastically effected as it takes alot more spring tension to back shift.
Most will go and change out the spring or increase the spring tension on the secondary clutch, the problem with this is you are essentially reducing the clamping force of the primary weights now and defeating its purpose and will most likely increase belt heat.

A solution is to gear up, by doing so your now going to cause the clutches to operate in the lower portion of their sheaves (lower clutch shift ratio) because of the increase load applied by taller mechanical gear ratio. This will make the clutch weights operate closer to the crank and not past the fulcrum point, so now back shift will remain more consistent.

This will also help your sled from flat lining like it did, where it won't back shift or pickup rpm's but hold below spec's rpm like your does "8600"
The reason it did this is most likely, it over shifted because of the combination of heavy weights combined with low gear ratio's(causing the belt to operate in the higher clutch ratio as i mentioned above).

The MTX, IMO are gear to low for our riding areas, these were calibrated more for Colorado where riding is done at 8-10,000ft. We ride realistically 5-7,000ft and such low gear ratio's are not needed and will in fact effect the over all performance of the sled.

Anyhow that my observation, BTW, i run MTX 162" gearing with a 174" track and i know i have room to improve that, i can feel it in the engine, it likes to be loaded, like any engine. You want HP, you need to load it.
Food for thought

I disagree.

 

[dragonweld28]

I disagree.

Ya i agree Kanedog, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. According to Aaens's clutching and gearing manual, the MTX is geared very well for the track speeds its seeing. At 8800 rpm at a perfect 1 to 1 shift out its good for 76 mph track speed and 83 mph at a 1/2 overdrive. You will need to add more pin weight or more helix. Watch how stiff of a secondary spring is used as it will actually start to pull the belt down the front of secondary as it leaving the rotation. This robs track speed as it takes power to pull the belt forward again. Its more efficient to add more primary weight with a softer secondary spring and less helix. You'll have better backshift as well.

 

[1709]

that`s why you mark your clutch, I thought every one knew that, go wide open up a hill and look at the mark you put on it, there should be about 1/2 an inch left of marking on the clutch. if it is higher then gear up, if it is lower gear down. good rule of thumb.

 

[Catrider16]

I disagree.

Ya i agree Kanedog, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. According to Aaens's clutching and gearing manual, the MTX is geared very well for the track speeds its seeing. At 8800 rpm at a perfect 1 to 1 shift out its good for 76 mph track speed and 83 mph at a 1/2 overdrive. You will need to add more pin weight or more helix. Watch how stiff of a secondary spring is used as it will actually start to pull the belt down the front of secondary as it leaving the rotation. This robs track speed as it takes power to pull the belt forward again. Its more efficient to add more primary weight with a softer secondary spring and less helix. You'll have better backshift as well.

Critiques, what is the world with out those arsehol.
I guess not everyone is as smart as you guys. Not even Yamaha.
Last season at Yamafest Lund recieved a VIP invite from Yamaha, yes an invite and while on the hill some of the Yamaha higher up's took serious interest in Lund's Sidewinder, they took special interest in his clutching, took pictures of the clutches and asked a million question's on the setup, belt wear and performance.
If Yamaha takes Lunds tuning technique that seriously, don't you think you could learn something or do you guy's know everything that there is about the subject?

Have you ever wondered if ANY manufacture will take interest in your tuning technique?
BTW, Lund also tuned for BRP racing and raced in the early 2k for their hill climb team.

Proof, ask Climax or XMrider, they were both at Yamafest.

 

[Lund]

Thank's for the prop Catrider but let's not derail and wreck Kibbels thread over disagreement's and BS. I'm ok with other's not agreeing. Take it this way, this is internet and it's in the hill's that counts.
Some that commented on here spend more time on their key board BSing it makes me wonder if they even have a sled or a life other then S&M.

So ignore, ignore and keep Kibbels thread about his build on coarse.

 

[dragonweld28]

LOL. Yamaha getting some free test mules.. off course they will see what Lund had tested. There aren't that many sidewinders on the snow yet. Plus his is a BTX, not an MTX, so kind of a custom build. And if you know Randy he will help with those invites. Might you also notice that there are other knowledgeable people on this forum that can offer another opinion. If we all can make a suggestion than what is the forum for? Buy the way, i got an invite by Polaris... does that make me more creditable?

 

[kanedog]

Critiques, what is the world with out those arsehol.
I guess not everyone is as smart as you guys. Not even Yamaha.
Last season at Yamafest Lund recieved a VIP invite from Yamaha, yes an invite and while on the hill some of the Yamaha higher up's took serious interest in Lund's Sidewinder, they took special interest in his clutching, took pictures of the clutches and asked a million question's on the setup, belt wear and performance.
If Yamaha takes Lunds tuning technique that seriously, don't you think you could learn something or do you guy's know everything that there is about the subject?

Have you ever wondered if ANY manufacture will take interest in your tuning technique?
BTW, Lund also tuned for BRP racing and raced in the early 2k for their hill climb team.

Proof, ask Climax or XMrider, they were both at Yamafest.

I clutch to what Olav Aaen says which is 1-1 ratio. Maybe an invite by a manufacturer trumps writing a book? What I do is no big secret. I gear down to get to 1-1 on a slow movinh steep wfo climb and use overdrive to gain speed when track is not fully loaded. When it's done shifting out, the engine rpm's rise and it just keeps adding mph. No transition to od or rpm. It just does it seamlessly. Simple. I can beat the Lund turbo monster in the deep no problem with my 2 cylinder 2 stroke. He gonna dig to China with his massive trench machine while I skim along the top and wave buhbye. Springtime and setup snow I will lose big time tho. Maybe Yamaha should read Olav's book too if they need help cuz Lund is gonna steer them the wrong way.

 

[E-Zmoke]

Well I guess this is why some of us just don’t come on here that often anymore! Im not even going to comment on Benny and why his nose is all up in all of these Yamaha threads ?‍??

I have spoken with Lund numerous times on clutching the Sidewinder, he has some great theory’s and has done extensive real world testing, I couldn’t agree more with gearing the MTX up and loading the engine!! Changing weight profiles will change much more then you would ever imagine Stacy. I personally like the Dalton profiles and loaded heavy in the tips of the weight for good reason. Gear it up and throw weight at it, hold on boys your in for a good season!! Cheers

Sled looks amazing! Those CR boards are awesome and that bumper design is the best I’ve seen! Colours look like they match almost perfect!

I would turf the air shock for a coil shock that will be much more predictable and will keep the skis down with the CR block nothing will ever compare to the baker skid/m10 but will at least hold you over until that new sled comes out next year!