To the Castlegar rider on the CWRT who caused criminal damage.......

[Modman]

I know this area doesn't see a lot of internet traffic but here it is nonetheless, in the hopes that someone knows this jack ass and make him aware that actions have consequences. A few days ago there was an ultra-aggressive rider on a blue and white dirtbike on the CWRT coming back towards Castlegar. He approached my parents at a high rate of speed head on, and since this area is used by many people and their families, they gave him the "slow down" thumbs down signal. He turned around and chased them down and had some words for my dad (my parents are over 70 so you get the picture). He rode off again and my parents continued on their way - in opposite directions. About a km later, he was back, right on their rear bumper and revving his engine (or so they thought).

He backed off again and since they were concerned at how aggressive he was, they didn't stop until they were sure he was gone, at which point they noticed that he had tire rubbed all the paint off the lower half of their rear bumper using his front tire (presumably the engine revving was him doing this). Its not rubber transfer to the bumper that can just be taken off with magic eraser, he took the paint off completely and the entire bumper will have to be re-painted, probably to the tune of $1000.

The dirt bike was blue and white, with no specific identifiable marks, and the rider was wearing black riding gear and a full face helmet and visor, and he never lifted his visor when he approached my parents. There may be footage of him on a security camera, it is being looked into.

However, if anyone knows anything, please contact me directly regarding this matter. This was a galactically chickenshit thing to do, especially to a pair of retired seniors, so a colossal FAWK YOU to this person, and I know that karma will be coming your way, its just a matter of time.

 

[NoBrakes!]

terrible to hear this

 

[2kDoo]

im speechless. Sorry to hear they had such an experience

 

[ferniesnow]

Sorry to hear about this. Yes, Karma has it's way and I hope it is appropriate.

 

[Teth-Air]

What is the CWRT? I know you may not want to hear this but there are places that are put aside for high rate of speed and I don't know if this road/trail is for that but it might be the retaliation only, that may not acceptable. I think the guy needs to be charged for the damage but your dad should not have felt he was in the right to slow him down unless he was illegally speeding or the location was not for off highway vehicles.

I do get my back up when people think they should slow down or control others when in the right place for it. My example is a forestry service road that has off-road traffic and there is one particular resident that lives on that road that complains and yells at many passing by. I feel if he moved to that location he needs to accept the traffic that goes along with it. It was his choice to move there. To me it is like someone moving next to a free-way and then lobby to restrict the traffic to residential speeds because of the noise. Or when cross country skiing on a snowmobile trail and they complain about the noise when there are many trails for them and relatively few for snowmobiles.

BTW the fellow in the first example has not yelled at me because I try to be respectful when passing his house. Being respectful is good but we cannot demand it from others.

 

[FernieHawk]

Hope they find the guy...some people need to be bitch slapped.

 

[snopro]

Should have slammed the brakes on and sent him for a tumble. Then wave out the window at him while you drive away. Sorry they had to go through that.

 

[moyiesledhead]

What is the CWRT?

Columbia Western Rail Trail. Multi use trail on the old rail grade from Castlegar to Christina Lake. Definately not designated for high speed traffic.

And I always wondered about those residences at the bottom of Sitkum. Is there a suitable place to unload above them on that road? Been a few years since I've been there, so I don't remember. We just unloaded on the road below your place last time.

 

[Teth-Air]

Columbia Western Rail Trail. Multi use trail on the old rail grade from Castlegar to Christina Lake. Definately not designated for high speed traffic.

And I always wondered about those residences at the bottom of Sitkum. Is there a suitable place to unload above them on that road? Been a few years since I've been there, so I don't remember. We just unloaded on the road below your place last time.

Okay I went to the website and found this

"Important: You will almost certainly encounter motorized vehicles along the route, particularly ATVs and dirt bikes, which could be travelling at high speeds. Over the years, unregulated motorized use has degraded the trail surface along the Columbia & Western, making many areas quite challenging for hikers and cyclists. Users should come prepared for sandy conditions. Please see our equipment recommendations on the Boundary main page or even more detail on our "Equipment Tips" page of our Travel Tips."

Columbia & Western Railway / Trans Canada Trail (The Great Trail) in the Grand Forks Area: Grand Forks to Farron, 58 km | Trails BC

trailsbc.ca

Definitely unregulated is how it is described.

As for Sitkum there is a good turn-around near 3km mark where parking is easy. The complaint is not about parking at the bottom but rather trucks taking mountain bikes up for a drop off and they often don't run their trucks in 4 wheel drive so they spin up the road a bit. As a resident at the lower staging area we have no problem with people parking as long as they stay clear of blocking my driveway, don't leave litter and take ownership of their dogs. I was regularly cleaning up after dogs before I put up a sign to be respectful. Locals still bring their dogs to the area to do their business but now appear to go up a little higher rather than on my lawn.

BTW I drive through Moyie every week. I should stop in for a beer sometime.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Definitely unregulated is how it is described.

As for Sitkum there is a good turn-around near 3km mark where parking is easy. The complaint is not about parking at the bottom but rather trucks taking mountain bikes up for a drop off and they often don't run their trucks in 4 wheel drive so they spin up the road a bit. As a resident at the lower staging area we have no problem with people parking as long as they stay clear of blocking my driveway, don't leave litter and take ownership of their dogs. I was regularly cleaning up after dogs before I put up a sign to be respectful. Locals still bring their dogs to the area to do their business but now appear to go up a little higher rather than on my lawn.

BTW I drive through Moyie every week. I should stop in for a beer sometime.

Yup it's unregulated. No argument there.

Last time I was up Sitkum we had mountain bikers that had run down those trails ask us to give them a ride back up to their truck. Told them to pedal their arses back up there. Probably be less irritating to the neighbors if I just run my quad from the bottom rather than bounce my rattling trailer up past their houses.

I'm not home much during the week, but that could be arranged.

 

[Modman]

Okay I went to the website and found this

"Important: You will almost certainly encounter motorized vehicles along the route, particularly ATVs and dirt bikes, which could be travelling at high speeds. Over the years, unregulated motorized use has degraded the trail surface along the Columbia & Western, making many areas quite challenging for hikers and cyclists. Users should come prepared for sandy conditions. Please see our equipment recommendations on the Boundary main page or even more detail on our "Equipment Tips" page of our Travel Tips."

Columbia & Western Railway / Trans Canada Trail (The Great Trail) in the Grand Forks Area: Grand Forks to Farron, 58 km | Trails BC

trailsbc.ca

Definitely unregulated is how it is described.

As for Sitkum there is a good turn-around near 3km mark where parking is easy. The complaint is not about parking at the bottom but rather trucks taking mountain bikes up for a drop off and they often don't run their trucks in 4 wheel drive so they spin up the road a bit. As a resident at the lower staging area we have no problem with people parking as long as they stay clear of blocking my driveway, don't leave litter and take ownership of their dogs. I was regularly cleaning up after dogs before I put up a sign to be respectful. Locals still bring their dogs to the area to do their business but now appear to go up a little higher rather than on my lawn.

BTW I drive through Moyie every week. I should stop in for a beer sometime.

No resource roads in BC are "unregulated", if there is no posted speed limit the max is 80 as per Forest and Range Practices Act, Forest Service Road Use Regulation. https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/70_2004

What is the CWRT? I know you may not want to hear this but there are places that are put aside for high rate of speed and I don't know if this road/trail is for that but it might be the retaliation only, that may not acceptable. I think the guy needs to be charged for the damage but your dad should not have felt he was in the right to slow him down unless he was illegally speeding or the location was not for off highway vehicles.

I do get my back up when people think they should slow down or control others when in the right place for it. My example is a forestry service road that has off-road traffic and there is one particular resident that lives on that road that complains and yells at many passing by. I feel if he moved to that location he needs to accept the traffic that goes along with it. It was his choice to move there. To me it is like someone moving next to a free-way and then lobby to restrict the traffic to residential speeds because of the noise. Or when cross country skiing on a snowmobile trail and they complain about the noise when there are many trails for them and relatively few for snowmobiles.

BTW the fellow in the first example has not yelled at me because I try to be respectful when passing his house. Being respectful is good but we cannot demand it from others.

Last year this section of the CWRT was re-designated as a resource road, however it is still gated and requires membership and it still sees significant amounts of foot traffic, as well as other users. It is a single lane road, with an embankment on 1 side and a cliff on the other, with blind corners, tunnels, and trestles. There are people that live on the lake that routinely use this resource road and maintain it.....like me and my family since 1968 and since the inception of the CWRT in 1998. I passed at least 15 mountain bikers on Sunday morning, 1 group was a family of 5 with an aging dog. We always stop (and move over if possible), so that they don't get forced off the road and so that the dust settles behind us.

There are also still restrictions on this road. Interfor actually owns the access and CPR still has title to the first few km's of it. The first few km's from the Castlegar side are the most heavily used, as most people walk or bike to the McCormack trestle about 8 kms, which is where this incident occurred and absolutely not the place to be going more than 50 km/hr. So this is not one of these "unrestricted places put aside for high speed" you are referring to. Up until last year, the speed restriction was 30 in this area. We own 4 sleds, 2 dirt bikes, 3 Seadoos, a quad and a side by side, and are a happily motorized family and are fully supportive of public access to public lands, and speed use where appropriate. I have no issues with people wanting to (or actually) "going fast", I can hit 100+ on the lake just going to Scotties marina for ice cream. But I don't go past the public beach, through the swimming buoys, 15 ft off the shore at that speed.....Using this road constantly for the last 30 years, this is probably user #5 (or less) that has been told to slow down, so that should tell you that we aren't out there with a radar gun being traffic cops, and also that 99.999999% of all users are super respectful of each other. Definitely the first one to ever take offense for sure.

"I know you may not want to hear this but"...... but just because someone buys an off road / highway vehicle does not give them the right to do "what they want". We are all advocates for motorized use here, so I say this with all due respect and without prejudice, the tone of your initial paragraph comes across as though there is entitlement to do exactly that. I am empathetic to respectful users who still get flogged by "trail nancy's" such as the one guy you mention. There are ALWAYS considerations that a person should make, and my parents considered other users and the rider's direction when they made the motion to the rider to slow down. So yes, as a responsible backcountry user themselves, they do not want to see an accident occur that will hurt someone, or limit the use of the road for others. If they were farther up the trail and in the middle of nowhere, they probably wouldn't have even worried about it but since he almost piled into the front of them on a blind corner I think they primarily reacted out of shock after almost going over the edge. There are no end of people looking to shut the multi-use down and a serious accident or death would give them that much more reason. As I noted, this section of the trail is gated and response time for emergency services is affected and much of it does not have cell service so that delays response time further. If you are in Nelson this summer, you should come up and I can give you a tour of the trail, always looking to show other folks the area.

 

[Teth-Air]

No resource roads in BC are "unregulated", if there is no posted speed limit the max is 80 as per Forest and Range Practices Act, Forest Service Road Use Regulation. https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/70_2004


Last year this section of the CWRT was re-designated as a resource road, however it is still gated and requires membership and it still sees significant amounts of foot traffic, as well as other users. It is a single lane road, with an embankment on 1 side and a cliff on the other, with blind corners, tunnels, and trestles. There are people that live on the lake that routinely use this resource road and maintain it.....like me and my family since 1968 and since the inception of the CWRT in 1998. I passed at least 15 mountain bikers on Sunday morning, 1 group was a family of 5 with an aging dog. We always stop (and move over if possible), so that they don't get forced off the road and so that the dust settles behind us.

There are also still restrictions on this road. Interfor actually owns the access and CPR still has title to the first few km's of it. The first few km's from the Castlegar side are the most heavily used, as most people walk or bike to the McCormack trestle about 8 kms, which is where this incident occurred and absolutely not the place to be going more than 50 km/hr. So this is not one of these "unrestricted places put aside for high speed" you are referring to. Up until last year, the speed restriction was 30 in this area. We own 4 sleds, 2 dirt bikes, 3 Seadoos, a quad and a side by side, and are a happily motorized family and are fully supportive of public access to public lands, and speed use where appropriate. I have no issues with people wanting to (or actually) "going fast", I can hit 100+ on the lake just going to Scotties marina for ice cream. But I don't go past the public beach, through the swimming buoys, 15 ft off the shore at that speed.....Using this road constantly for the last 30 years, this is probably user #5 (or less) that has been told to slow down, so that should tell you that we aren't out there with a radar gun being traffic cops, and also that 99.999999% of all users are super respectful of each other. Definitely the first one to ever take offense for sure.

"I know you may not want to hear this but"...... but just because someone buys an off road / highway vehicle does not give them the right to do "what they want". We are all advocates for motorized use here, so I say this with all due respect and without prejudice, the tone of your initial paragraph comes across as though there is entitlement to do exactly that. I am empathetic to respectful users who still get flogged by "trail nancy's" such as the one guy you mention. There are ALWAYS considerations that a person should make, and my parents considered other users and the rider's direction when they made the motion to the rider to slow down. So yes, as a responsible backcountry user themselves, they do not want to see an accident occur that will hurt someone, or limit the use of the road for others. If they were farther up the trail and in the middle of nowhere, they probably wouldn't have even worried about it but since he almost piled into the front of them on a blind corner I think they primarily reacted out of shock after almost going over the edge. There are no end of people looking to shut the multi-use down and a serious accident or death would give them that much more reason. As I noted, this section of the trail is gated and response time for emergency services is affected and much of it does not have cell service so that delays response time further. If you are in Nelson this summer, you should come up and I can give you a tour of the trail, always looking to show other folks the area.

Thanks for the detail. It sounds as you right in this case, sorry I came across the way I did. I guess I am just Covid tired of one sided stories where everyone is playing the victim and its always the other guys fault 100%. Just look at the news reports and you will understand why I always find myself defending the accused.

 

[papajake]

with a lot of luck the jerk will not make it any where near your parents age hope sooner than later

 

[Lund]

Kinda weird, when ever i have seen someone on a motorcycle or cycle put a front wheel up against another object on the move as described above, it has always ended up with the one doing the deed going over the handle bars in a bad crash.
Seen it happen, not just saying.

BTW, sorry to hear this, there are assholes every where. It it seems worst these days.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

Not poking holes in your story but yes indeed the person would have had to be a incredibly skilled rider. Maybe a picture could shed some light

 

[lilduke]

Not poking holes in your story but yes indeed the person would have had to be a incredibly skilled rider. Maybe a picture could shed some light

Maybe it was Ricky Carmichael? Haha

 

[Modman]

Thanks for the detail. It sounds as you right in this case, sorry I came across the way I did. I guess I am just Covid tired of one sided stories where everyone is playing the victim and its always the other guys fault 100%. Just look at the news reports and you will understand why I always find myself defending the accused.

All good man, not about right or wrong, simply about being a reasonable human. Buddy could have shrugged it off to some old peoples opinion and left it at that and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[Modman]

Not poking holes in your story but yes indeed the person would have had to be a incredibly skilled rider. Maybe a picture could shed some light

He apparently said he was a "good" rider so I'm inclined to believe it, I've seen the damage. Its not my vehicle so I'm a little reluctant to put it on the internet, also its not in my possession so I'll try to go over and take a pic sometime this week to justify everyones judgement.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

Im not saying it didn't happen but a lot of things would have to go really right for someone to wheelie up onto the back of another machine in order to damage it. Ever try putting your front tire up against your buddies back tire when riding bicycles as kids?

He apparently said he was a "good" rider so I'm inclined to believe it, I've seen the damage. Its not my vehicle so I'm a little reluctant to put it on the internet, also its not in my possession so I'll try to go over and take a pic sometime this week to justify everyones judgement.

 

[Modman]

Im not saying it didn't happen but a lot of things would have to go really right for someone to wheelie up onto the back of another machine in order to damage it. Ever try putting your front tire up against your buddies back tire when riding bicycles as kids?

He didn't wheelie onto the bumper, he just simply pushed his tire against it. Doesn't look like it takes much effort though, probably leaning forward on it as well I'd guess. Pretty clear it can be done though, based on width and tread pattern marks on other areas of the bumper as well. Here's a pic of one of the better defined marks, the bumper is scarred up across the bottom. The road is rough and they usually don't go over 40 km/hr during busy season, so its not like he tried it at speed. Unfortunately I wasn't there so I don't know how hard he bumped them, for how long etc, so hard for me to speculate. They will pay out of pocket for the repair since the deductible is almost as much, and so it would really be nice to find the individual responsible.