The twin vs triple debate. time to bring back the trip---or not?

[Longhairfreak]

What about identical displacement? Who would win? and why?

I dont care about displacement. All I care about is torque. Torque gets you up the hill. Why do you think big twins surprise turbos in a drag race? Because they are gone before the turbo starts making any power.

 

[CUSO]

Answer the question/

I dont care about displacement. All I care about is torque. Torque gets you up the hill. Why do you think big twins surprise turbos in a drag race? Because they are gone before the turbo starts making any power.

 

[CUSO]

Well at least SOMEONE could answer this properly.

Because they make their peak HP at a lower RPM, a single with a large flywheel will make more torque than a twin.
Since I have a CVT, making torque over a 2k RPM spread doesn't matter to me. My triple will make within 20HP and 5 ft/lbs over a 1000 RPM spread. Even with my limited clutching ability I can hit a spot where it will work.
Your 1160 will make good power but a similar triple will make more, have less vibration and be more reliable without the deto problems that seem to plague big twins. Ask Sever next time you talk to him. The bigger the bore the worse it gets as you can't get enough transfer port area or crankcase volume to make it work like it should and get the hp/cc.

 

[Caper11]

I did alot if drag racing when I was younger, had lots of triple engine Polaris on our team. Seemed to be the answer in a straight line, and were a lot more durable than the twins of the day.
Take for instance the xcr 600 triple/triple, it debuted in 96, and I bought one in 97. Polaris was focused primarily on big triples. Doo had the 670 which did alright but couldn't compete with the 700 triples in that class in stock form.
I believe it was 98 where the big switch to ho twins came in. Polaris started to go away from the Fuji triples in favor for there own bigger torque and same hp engines. Doo was leading the pack with the intro of the 800 twin ho which was a huge threat in the 800 class, the new 700 and 600 reed valve engines, and so began the demise of the triple engine 2 stroke.
Why would a person want to buy a triple, it's heavier doesn't have the tq of a twin and the twin was cheaper to mod over the triple.
I'd never consider owning a triple engine mountain sled, no way!!! I wouldn't want that heavy pig at 7000 ft when I can buy a twin and it would do a better job, even as a trail sled the triple had no bottom end tq, the engine would not pull right unless the clutch engaged close to 5000rpm, they came clutched from the factory at around 4500rpm. The market is not there for a triple, totally different power curve compared to the twin.
Where I do see a market for a triple is in the short track dept, if I was going to be on the bar for 15-20 min at a time a triple is what I'd want!!
Just imagine a etec 800 triple Machz screaming down the trail at 140mph!!! Pipes screaming at 8500rpm! What a rush it would be to do that again!! But I don't think the big four would ever consider building a triple engine again.


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[DRD]

Yeah, triples are such heavy pigs compared to twins. Don't believe the marketing that made us love twins. The manufactures love twins since they are cheaper to make, end of story.

http://www.snowmobilefanatics.com/gallery/image/172838-original.jpg

 

[teeroy]

Yeah, triples are such heavy pigs compared to twins. Don't believe the marketing that made us love twins. The manufactures love twins since they are cheaper to make, end of story.

http://www.snowmobilefanatics.com/gallery/image/172838-original.jpg

they should have added pipes, carbs, and airbox to the pic. look at the difference in width at the bottom end. everyone wanted lighter with easier handling, and that's what we got. end of story?

 

[jbb]

torque gets you going. hp keeps ya going. thats why you pull hard for 200ft kev. but theres a point where hp over takes torgue. its to try and get a balance of both....

 

[lilduke]

What about identical displacement? Who would win? and why?

A 1160 triple, triple would murder a 1160 twin all day,,every day and twice on sundays...

 

[jbb]

and an other factor in the triple vs twin is case volume. twins usually had more case volume hence more flow=more hp could be built. i had a few mod triple yammies back in the day and id still take a twin over them..

 

[jbb]

A 1160 triple, triple would murder a 1160 twin all day,,every day and twice on sundays...

i wouldnt agree with that.

 

[lilduke]

i wouldnt agree with that.

Thats ok you dont have to agree...lol

 

[Caper11]

A 1160 triple, triple would murder a 1160 twin all day,,every day and twice on sundays...

Nope, sorry in a 1000ft Drag race the my money is on the twin. your hole shot is everything!!! a twins torque will get you moving quicker than the triple. if you have those two engines in the exact same chassis the triple is at a disadvantage, long before the light turns green, front end weight, lower torque, higher engagement, higher operating rpm, poor weight transfer etc.

Now if that was a 2000ft race my money will be on the triple because the extra hp the triple will start turning on and close the gap.

 

[jbb]

nope, sorry in a 1000ft drag race the my money is on the twin. Your hole shot is everything!!! A twins torque will get you moving quicker than the triple. If you have those two engines in the exact same chassis the triple is at a disadvantage, long before the light turns green, front end weight, lower torque, higher engagement, higher operating rpm, poor weight transfer etc.

Now if that was a 2000ft race my money will be on the triple because the extra hp the triple will start turning on and close the gap.

what he said...

 

[Longhairfreak]

i wouldnt agree with that.

Neither would I.

 

[Modman]

Yeee hawww please someone bring back the triple so that we can re-widen the chassis and all go back to riding heavy tanks with our hands around our knees!!

mxz 809 ridin - YouTube

LMAO

 

[DRD]

Nope, sorry in a 1000ft Drag race the my money is on the twin. your hole shot is everything!!! a twins torque will get you moving quicker than the triple. if you have those two engines in the exact same chassis the triple is at a disadvantage, long before the light turns green, front end weight, lower torque, higher engagement, higher operating rpm, poor weight transfer etc.

Now if that was a 2000ft race my money will be on the triple because the extra hp the triple will start turning on and close the gap.

I wonder why then virtually every world record holder in NSSR classes that allow multi pipe is a triple then?? Maybe you should grab your twin and go kick some ass??

 

[Caper11]

I wonder why then virtually every world record holder in NSSR classes that allow multi pipe is a triple then?? Maybe you should grab your twin and go kick some ass??

Do you know the differance between NHRA style drag racing, and NSSR speed runs? there have been speed records set at the NSSR with twin cyl sleds but the majority are triple cyl sleds, totally different styles of racing.
I guess you didn't read that I mentioned the sleds I raced were mostly triple/triple's, anything from a stock 600 to a full improved ultra 680. I was speaking from experiance, twin cyl sleds are quicker off the line and the triple were playing catch up.
The long distance I mentioned was an example in case someone that I quoted was thinking of lake racing. Mostly the races I ran in were 1/8 of a mile and 1000ft.

 

[lilduke]

The 700twins&triples are a totally differnt ball game then 1200's.

The 1200triples will make more hp and torque than the 1200twin.If you cant make that work for you in a drag race then you need to look at the rest of your setup.

But modman has a point,, the 1200triple isnt going to fit into any thing im going to be riding in the mountains,, drag racing isnt really my thing.


So serious question here for the freak. What kind of numbers is your 1160 throwing down? Are you making 250hp with 150ft/lbs of torque? If your twin is making those numbers I might want one.

 

[CUSO]

How is he supposed to know? He thinks Torque is derived from HP...

The 700twins&triples are a totally differnt ball game then 1200's.

The 1200triples will make more hp and torque than the 1200twin.If you cant make that work for you in a drag race then you need to look at the rest of your setup.

But modman has a point,, the 1200triple isnt going to fit into any thing im going to be riding in the mountains,, drag racing isnt really my thing.


So serious question here for the freak. What kind of numbers is your 1160 throwing down? Are you making 250hp with 150ft/lbs of torque? If your twin is making those numbers I might want one.

 

[popcorn popper]

lol....everywhere you went? must have been hardpack, because that sure wasn't the experience we had running 670's against F3's or any other stretched triples in the mountains. I can recall one specific situation where we dropped into a creek late spring to discover the creek had opened up and had to climb back out of the tight trail, and the only sleds that could make it out were the twins....there were three triples that we had to hand bomb up. you had no run, and really had to rely on the bottom end grunt to get moving to gather momentum. the triples were so peaky they would immediately trench when they got on the pipe, the twins could all lug their way until the tight spot where you could then give it throttle. yes, wide open and screaming the trips were great, but that moment there really showed their shortcomings. weight and lack of torque at lower rpm's.

as for the pto bearings? I knew of only one 670 that ever had a crank bearing issue, it was 2 years off of warranty and 'doo was so surprised that it had a problem they warrantied it anyways. it got a brand new bottom end, those 670 rotary engines were bulletproof. not uncommon for them to roll up 5000 miles or more without a hiccup. after 2 seasons or so the triples were always a tuning nightmare, fouling one plug, eating the center piston, seemed there were always something wrong with them.

Lets get a couple things straight here! 1. Hp is a mathematical equation from tq! All dynos measure tq and figure the hp out mathematically ! 2 . I rode the 600 every where including them mtns and only the big bore 740 (670) sleds gave me much trouble and my sled was still at least 75 lbs heavier than most s chassis! 3 you don't clutch your sled for tq? You clutch to where the engine makes peak hp so the tq therory don't mean diddly! The only place the twin would have a slight advantage is on initial take off but if triple is clutched correctly the advantage will be short lived! Last time i checked my sleds I hit the pin tach hits 8000 and if its clutched right it stays there! Doesn't drop to peak tq?4. It's 2013 and wow a 800 twin finally matched the hp of a engine that debut in 94? It takes a myriad of electronics and other hi-tec goodies to make it all work. It is interesting to flip through the crankshops catalog and find that their engine that makes the most power is a three cylinder rotary valve?? Thought for sure it would be a 1200 twin!Not!We can argue for days but talk to guys in the know and they all say the same. Triples make the most power twins keep them alive with repairs end of story!One other thing if I could buy a big etec triple and even if it was 40 lbs heavier I would buy cause its still lighter than my 1000 twin was!