Supercharged Apex

[Barry Barton]

My bad, Powder Muncher, You're absolutely right, I did switch to the smaller rollers from the stock ones but either way it still hits the rev limiter.

try to load up the primary and then change your helix on the secondary for wear u ride or do u ride at any lower altitudes

 

[powder muncher]

You need to g to a more aggressive weights and a softer primary spring.

The yamaha weights are heavy but have not much shift force.

At high boost I run small rollers with heel clicker weights at 65 grams and the lightest primary spring yamaha has.

I am perfect on the bottom but still pull down a bit low in the deep snow at high track speed. 10 000 rpm

I have a bit of a problem with fuelling, at about 1/3 throttle I have a slight lean bog .

Running at 12.85 idle and a bit rich just of idle , after that 11.5 to 12.25 to one all the way.

Just have that lean spike going slowly through 1/3 throttle and than right back to perfect .wide open is 11.5 all the way steady.

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[Barry Barton]

You need to g to a more aggressive weights and a softer primary spring.

The yamaha weights are heavy but have not much shift force.

At high boost I run small rollers with heel clicker weights at 65 grams and the lightest primary spring yamaha has.

I am perfect on the bottom but still pull down a bit low in the deep snow at high track speed. 10 000 rpm

I have a bit of a problem with fuelling, at about 1/3 throttle I have a slight lean bog .

Running at 12.85 idle and a bit rich just of idle , after that 11.5 to 12.25 to one all the way.

Just have that lean spike going slowly through 1/3 throttle and than right back to perfect .wide open is 11.5 all the way steady.

Anyone have any ideas?

the sping I run is blue pin blue and my secondary is white
I have a shockwave on my secondary and it's set at 46 degrees
at full throttle out of the hole it hits the limiter hard and then pulls steady
In the deep snow it sounds like your secondary is opening to fast had the same proplem used my shockwave to a lower setting and it keeps the secondary closed longer so it works great in the deep snow.
Are u running a gems on your sled because I can set my fuel a little higher with the gems programmer on my sled

 

[powder muncher]

I do have a team roller on the back , same setting as on my turbo sled.

I guess the turbo has longer legs on the shift out.

The fuelling is pretty much right on except when it switches modes at 1/3 throttle momentarily.

Talked to MPI and got a few Ideas. Yes it is the Gems controller.

 

[Barry Barton]

I do have a team roller on the back , same setting as on my turbo sled.

I guess the turbo has longer legs on the shift out.

The fuelling is pretty much right on except when it switches modes at 1/3 throttle momentarily.

Talked to MPI and got a few Ideas. Yes it is the Gems controller.

Been told not to use spects off a turbo sled they are set up different and both sleds shift out the same if the clutchs are set up right ggod luck

 

[powder muncher]

Turbos are soft on the bottom and pull hard up top --- superchargers pull hard on the bottom and flatten out up top.

I only use the turbo spec for a starting point if you hit the rev limiter you give up the advantage of that instant power.

what I am looking for is a smooth shift in at 3000 RPM ( come of the line without track spin steady shift-out to 10800 all the way)

Traction is the name of the game rule of thumb is 50% track spin gives the best acceleration in snow.

I have seen 240 hp Nytros and 260 hp Apexes hand it to 325 hp sleds just because of proper set up.

Give me a few more rides and she will be dialled. Busy right now building a buddies 180 nytro up with him.

 

[Barry Barton]

I'm not sure what u are running on but in deep snow u don't want it to shift up to early, because if the track isn't spinning and u bogg u are screwed in deep snow. Track speed and rpm is the big thing in deep snow , I like your idea but i've been in deep snow when my sled shifted to soon and all I did was sink because I didn't have track speed. Please keep me informed on how well your idea works sounds interesting. The best idea a friend came up with was to suck up on the limiter strap and it changed the attack angle of the track and it works great. He found he could get his nytro up on plain faster than a xp and he's been working on mods for years. Yes set up is real inportant thats why I would like to hear how it works. I'm hitting the rev limiter down at lower elevation I should be ok once I put put a load on the sled because their is basically no snow in edmonton to test on because all I do is spin and darren at e&s said it should be better when I get into some snow and start to load the track up.

 

[powder muncher]

You will need some snow , but the superchargers spin out easy with all that bottom end if you spin of the line you are not going anywhere quick.

Track-speed is great as long as you don't dig a hole , if you do 20 mph by GPS your best performance would be with 40 mph track-speed.

Now remember this is a rule of thumb all tracks and set ups are a little different but for most instances this holds true.

As for approach angle I run a Holz alpha X 155 skid set back for a 162 track with a super shallow approach angle and anti stab wheels.

 

[Barry Barton]

You will need some snow , but the superchargers spin out easy with all that bottom end if you spin of the line you are not going anywhere quick.

Track-speed is great as long as you don't dig a hole , if you do 20 mph by GPS your best performance would be with 40 mph track-speed.

Now remember this is a rule of thumb all tracks and set ups are a little different but for most instances this holds true.

As for approach angle I run a Holz alpha X 155 skid set back for a 162 track with a super shallow approach angle and anti stab wheels.[/QUOTEhow right u are they do spin out of the hole alot and like everyone is trying to do is get up on plain as fast as u can. But I find if u are in deep snow u try to feather it out first and once u get going u nut it. I like the way I can move the sled at slower speeds and have that quick response when needed. Your set up is perfect for getting up on the snow faster and thats what i'm after I still have a stock suspention on my sled but I'm thinking of putting a 174" track on and slide my skid back just like u have done. Hows your friends nytro doing I hope it's going well , I'm going out this week and I hope I can get my sled dialed in a little better.

 

[powder muncher]

Had it (Nytro 180) out on a little ride around town and seems al good smooth solid power . We are looking to take it to the mountains tomorrow if weather allows have almost 0 visibility and 50 k winds right now snowfall warnings the works. I wish MCX would make a low boost kit for the Apex , very nice and super simple set up . Less the 1/2 the time and complexity to install over the super. No messing with fuel control Just runs perfect right from start up.

I will let you know how it does in the pow once we get up there.

 

[powder muncher]

I did get out finally----good pow about 1-2 feet fresh depending on where the wind put it.

The Super pulls hard now 10500 all the way, need a stiffer secondary spring to kick it up to 10800 or it will fall to far when I go high.

The 8 inch powder hounds are a huge improvement over the 7 inch that I returned , they just did not turn at all and lacked flotation on the apex.

The 8 inch ski is close second to the Simons gen 2 in flotation and turning on the trail and the pair is 12 pounds lighter than the Simmons gen 2.

If you use only one ski this is the one to have. The Little 180 Mcx Nytro did well but was down on RPM , needs some more clutching.

Although it has very little lag its pick up is not even close to the superchargers instant power.

The supercharger is noticeably nose heavy in comparison to my RX1 turbo and all the extra rotating mass makes it harder to carve than the turbos.

I will be looking into relocating the batterie behind the seat and maybe even take the Intercooler of and just build a lightweight plenum to save weight.

With low boost the Intercooler is not needed anyway.

 

[powder muncher]

next pic

 

[Barry Barton]

WENT out this last week and it worked real well had the gems at .5 ,3 ,3.5 ,4.5 ,3 and 4 the helix on the seconardy was at 43 degrees and she was reving out at 10,800 . She was pulling real well but I found that a lot of other sleds like my sons m8 was pulling way better than I was. Two nytro turbos had the new comoplast extreme track on their sleds and they seemed to pull forever. My track has at least 3800 k on and I think if I change the track it should help out alot since I seem to have the hp but no traction. I'm also looking at turning the power up to 8 to 10psi and hopefully this will help for now until I get a new track on the sled which won't happen until the summer time so I guess I'll see what happens. Will I need to to add more weight to the primary when I krank up the horse power or can I leave the same weights on.

 

[powder muncher]

If you switch the pulleys you will definitely need more weight , mine pulls like a freight train at 10 psi - Stock sleds are not even in the running.

If you have the stock maverick track on that will just not do, anything else is better than that do yourself a favour and get something else.

Here is my update was out in 3-4 feet of heavy snow just bellow freezing.

I got my clutching figured out well now the gems needs to be adjusted every 2500 feet , altitude adj. by a .5 seems to do it.

Now the negative the frond end did get real heavy with the supercharger in the frond , what I have gained in throttle response over a turbo I have lost in weight.

The extra weight of the SC and the extra rotating mass of the supercharger is really noticeable.

I need to to relocate the battery to the back of the tunnel and get rid of the intercooler , at 10 psi we make not enough heat for it to have much effect and the increase in flow with a straight pipe and plenum should make up for any loses .

Looking to get a timbersled frond end as well just to get rid of more weight.

Between the Battery the frond end and the intercooler I should be able to take at least 25 pounds out of the frond end, that should help.

With a little extra work I should be able to make it into what I really want as good a boon-docker as it was stock with the extra power of the SC.

 

[shawnmcgr]

Sorry Barry, I've been busy over the xmass season!

Interesting to hear Darren's recommendation about keeping settings 3 & 4 close together. I might try this.

The toughest thing about installing an O2 sensor on the exhaust is getting the bung welded on. I'm not a welder but I had a friend of a friend put it on for me. Took about 5 min. There are also strap on fittings if welding is out of the questions. I've got mine installed just downstream of the muffler on the left hand side. This keeps it out of the snow and dry.

I run Dalton adjustable weights and would recommended them. It makes it very easy to add or remove weight. This might be very handy for you if you ride at 2000ft as well as in the mtns. Me, the only time I'm below 6500ft is on the trail up.

My clutching still needs some work as I have not touched the secondary.

It's way easier to set-up your GEMS with an O2/AFR gauge than without. I think your flying blind now!

 

[shawnmcgr]

Ditto on the track, the mav sucks!

 

[Barry Barton]

Sorry Barry, I've been busy over the xmass season!

Interesting to hear Darren's recommendation about keeping settings 3 & 4 close together. I might try this.

The toughest thing about installing an O2 sensor on the exhaust is getting the bung welded on. I'm not a welder but I had a friend of a friend put it on for me. Took about 5 min. There are also strap on fittings if welding is out of the questions. I've got mine installed just downstream of the muffler on the left hand side. This keeps it out of the snow and dry.

I run Dalton adjustable weights and would recommended them. It makes it very easy to add or remove weight. This might be very handy for you if you ride at 2000ft as well as in the mtns. Me, the only time I'm below 6500ft is on the trail up.

My clutching still needs some work as I have not touched the secondary.

It's way easier to set-up your GEMS with an O2/AFR gauge than without. I think your flying blind now!

shawn I installed a shockwave and it's really easy to set the secondary for different elevations. All I had to do is set the weights on my primary with my helix set at 45 degrees and had the sled rev out at about 10300 to 10800 and when I hit the mountains all I had to do is crank the helix into 43 degrees and it keeps the revs at about 10800 works real well if u like to use your sled at home like I do. With the gems I've been taking the numbers from darren who has a book on different # that guys have been using so for now it should help until I get a o2 gauge put on. With the o2 sensor I was told by darren to put it on just before the muflers and before the y pipe to get the proper pick up on the sensor, how well is yours working. Not sure why darren wanted me to keep stage 3 and 4 close together but I think it has to do with if u put more fuel on the system than u are using it may cause some damage . (just a guess)

 

[shawnmcgr]

I thought about picking up a shockwave to sort out what ramp I should have. My secondary is still stock and I think I could use one a bit shallower. Any riding I do around home is on the trails with my family so I rarely get over 30kph....no need for clutching adjustments, I'm lucky to get it fully engaged!

My O2 works fine, except at idle, it reads high (lean). I know some have installed just in front of the muffler but had issues with snow hitting it. Any further forward and it becomes a pain to get at if you need to replace it (which I do now and then as I run race gas).

I'm not sure why Darren would recommend 3&4 being closer together, maybe something to do with the mid range lean spot these GEMS units are know for.

My sled has had 2 maverick tracks on it and I'll tell you the CE 2.5" I've got now gave it way more traction! It was like a 10-20hp pickup. Where the maverick spun the CE just hooked up and took off! I think 2.5 is too large though without a drop and roll....I may trim it back to 2.25" and port it.

Take it easy!

 

[powder muncher]

shawn I installed a shockwave and it's really easy to set the secondary for different elevations. All I had to do is set the weights on my primary with my helix set at 45 degrees and had the sled rev out at about 10300 to 10800 and when I hit the mountains all I had to do is crank the helix into 43 degrees and it keeps the revs at about 10800 works real well if u like to use your sled at home like I do. With the gems I've been taking the numbers from darren who has a book on different # that guys have been using so for now it should help until I get a o2 gauge put on. With the o2 sensor I was told by darren to put it on just before the muflers and before the y pipe to get the proper pick up on the sensor, how well is yours working. Not sure why darren wanted me to keep stage 3 and 4 close together but I think it has to do with if u put more fuel on the system than u are using it may cause some damage . (just a guess)

The maps for each stage overlap, so the closer you can keep the main maps the more even your fuel delivery ( no lean or excessive rich spots)

 

[Barry Barton]

I thought about picking up a shockwave to sort out what ramp I should have. My secondary is still stock and I think I could use one a bit shallower. Any riding I do around home is on the trails with my family so I rarely get over 30kph....no need for clutching adjustments, I'm lucky to get it fully engaged!

My O2 works fine, except at idle, it reads high (lean). I know some have installed just in front of the muffler but had issues with snow hitting it. Any further forward and it becomes a pain to get at if you need to replace it (which I do now and then as I run race gas).

I'm not sure why Darren would recommend 3&4 being closer together, maybe something to do with the mid range lean spot these GEMS units are know for.

My sled has had 2 maverick tracks on it and I'll tell you the CE 2.5" I've got now gave it way more traction! It was like a 10-20hp pickup. Where the maverick spun the CE just hooked up and took off! I think 2.5 is too large though without a drop and roll....I may trim it back to 2.25" and port it.

Take it easy!

The spring I run on my secondary is white and like I said very easy to set in the mountains, one set back i've been told it wears the buttons off alot faster other than that works well. With u running the sensor off one pipe doe's it give u a accurate reading and can't u put a small shield in front of the sensor if u put it before the y pipe. Haven't put one in before and how hard is it to get at if u have it before the y pipe. With the track I was thinking between a camoplast extreme 162 x 2.5 or go to a 174x2.5 and slide the suspention back about 5.5" This is the way kenny at mountain magic has been doing it on all of the sleds he's been doing. He said some guys have been drop and role their sleds and it works real well but the cost is their also. With putting on a 174 and slide the suspention back it changes the attack angle but drop and role cost is much higher, was also told not to put a 3" track in because it doesn't fit under the tunnel and it tears the tips of the track and turns into a 2.5" track real fast.