Solar System Install and Performance

[ABMax24]

With the cost of batteries it doesn’t even make much sense to be on the grid. Size your solar to get you through the worst months (dec-Jan). Have a backup plan as well..
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That comes with a lot of caveats though. If you already have grid power you're going to have a very hard timing making the math work to go off-grid. You have to way oversize the solar array, and even with my consumption I wouldn't be comfortable with anything less than 40kwh of batteries storage. And then dicking with a generator in -40 when it breaks down or doesn't start doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun.

For a new service where the power co is charging an arm and a leg to connect the service absolutely. Even then though a person has to consider resale value, I've seen a few off-grid houses in the area sit on MLS for a lot longer than they should of.

 

[Dawizman]

In my opinion, the cost of batteries and a generator could be justified for a brand new rural home in Canada where the initial cost to connect to the grid is quite high. Combine that with a DIY installation, and I could certainly turn a very short ROI, assuming a location where solar makes sense to begin with.

If you are already on grid, at least in Western Canada, adding batteries makes little sense in my opinion, unless your tinfoil hat says so.

 

[ABMax24]

There's only 10 points or so on top of what I pay for panels from a major wholesaler. There's a bit more room on batteries and inverters though. There would be more margin if I bought a whole container direct from overseas.

Depends on the retailer I guess. We used to have an electrical division and they used to get a slip every few months showing what the wholesaler had in stock and pricing, it was a lot better than I could have got at any retailer I could have walked into, like 25% or more.

 

[lilduke]

If youre grid tied ur just pretending lmao

 

[ABMax24]

that sounds like a good deal, is there any catch??? I know a guy who just install( I think it was a 4500w system) for $30,000, and no batteries

There's tons of scummy solar installers that are doing that now, way over inflating system prices to make a buck.

I know of a system in town that was $80k installed, for less than 30 solar panels. The installer likely made over 100% margin on that one.

A minimum of 3 quotes is a must if a person wants to get a system installed.

 

[Dawizman]

Depends on the retailer I guess. We used to have an electrical division and they used to get a slip every few months showing what the wholesaler had in stock and pricing, it was a lot better than I could have got at any retailer I could have walked into, like 25% or more.

Yeah, there's lots of cheap online retailers now.

Sounds like we may use the same wholesaler. I also get a stock & pricelist on the regular. Mainly buying batteries from them these days.

 

[Dawizman]

There's tons of scummy solar installers that are doing that now, way over inflating system prices to make a buck.

I know of a system in town that was $80k installed, for less than 30 solar panels. The installer likely made over 100% margin on that one.

A minimum of 3 quotes is a must if a person wants to get a system installed.

Big mark-up and labor cost. I'm paying under $200 for a 520w panel. That puts panels under $6k to make 15kw. Inverters will be some money, ballpark $10k. Mounts, wiring, accessories another $10k. Puts materials at 26k. Figure labor another 30k. That guy is pocketing an extra 25k on that 3 day job.

 

[deaner]

Big mark-up and labor cost. I'm paying under $200 for a 520w panel. That puts panels under $6k to make 15kw. Inverters will be some money, ballpark $10k. Mounts, wiring, accessories another $10k. Puts materials at 26k. Figure labor another 30k. That guy is pocketing an extra 25k on that 3 day job.

How is labor 30k if it's a 3 day job?? That's my problem with the thieving electricians around here.......or maybe it's everywhere. I've built enough that I know what the materials cost to wire a house. Also have a decent understanding of how long it should take (have wired a few houses myself on a homeowner permit). Got a few quotes when we built the place we are in now and they were absolutely retarded. 8k in materials, 80 hours labor @ $100 an hour (that's being generous), and somehow the average quote is 30k.

I'm all for a guy making money, but that is just ridiculous. Looks like maybe the same thing with solar

 

[Lem Lamb]

A solar and wind system is a shy more then my carbon set up ...

Of course all systems = out at the 10 year mark...

These systems alot for 24 day living off grid with all costs added in ++ maintenance,,, back-up transport,,, 10 year (and/ or) replacement costs...

Energy is Energy and it comes at a cost no matter what...

My big savings is the frugal system
Free battery's
Low cost Energy sorce
Maintenance is next to nill over 10 years
Replacement costs are dirt cheap...

Lets face it,,, humans only need a few hours of electricity if they have other sorces too keep life simple,,, and going for 80 ish years if We live that long...

100 years off grid could range from $166.000 too $332.400
Most likely less if a person is on the game plan...

A conscientious off gridder can pull off a $20 or $40.000 life time energy program... or less if their hard core... ha

A bit of work but it can be done...

The trick is to keep it simple and cost effective and low human input time... lol

 

[maxwell]

how is there not any incentives for these systems to offset the costs if Trudeau actually cares about the environment with this carbon tax? lol...

 

[lilduke]

There was, might still be. They just add that into the mark up. These solar "experts" are scammers most the time. My buddy was a salesman for one of those outfits.

 

[ABMax24]

how is there not any incentives for these systems to offset the costs if Trudeau actually cares about the environment with this carbon tax? lol...

There was, kinda, the Green Homes Grant. But it ran out of money and was very poorly run, my parents got a grant when they installed solar. I think they waited 9 months for the cheque to come.

The Alberta Grant under the NDP was run a lot better, approvals were quick and the grants were also processed fast after the systems were installed.

 

[Dawizman]

There was, kinda, the Green Homes Grant. But it ran out of money and was very poorly run, my parents got a grant when they installed solar. I think they waited 9 months for the cheque to come.

The Alberta Grant under the NDP was run a lot better, approvals were quick and the grants were also processed fast after the systems were installed.

I'm sure it was run how it was intended. To make the right lobbyists rich.

 

[maxwell]

i had a solar guy tell me that as they keep installing these solar systems the power providers keep increasing the costs for conventional power to offset the revenue loss. not sure if there was any truth to that but crooked as hell

 

[jhurkot]

That comes with a lot of caveats though. If you already have grid power you're going to have a very hard timing making the math work to go off-grid. You have to way oversize the solar array, and even with my consumption I wouldn't be comfortable with anything less than 40kwh of batteries storage. And then dicking with a generator in -40 when it breaks down or doesn't start doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun.

For a new service where the power co is charging an arm and a leg to connect the service absolutely. Even then though a person has to consider resale value, I've seen a few off-grid houses in the area sit on MLS for a lot longer than they should of.

True. Also for a grid tied system you will be limited in how much solar you’re allowed to have on it. These limitations are related to the service size and your usage. For an off grid system the limit is your budget.

 

[Dawizman]

i had a solar guy tell me that as they keep installing these solar systems the power providers keep increasing the costs for conventional power to offset the revenue loss. not sure if there was any truth to that but crooked as hell

Oh 100%.

Solar is decreasing mid day demand, but the peak demand is still there when solar is doing sfa. Those power generation facilities cost money to keep operational. Yeah, their feedstock cost goes down during the day, but there's a lot of fixed costs, and the shareholders certainly aren't going to eat that.

 

[deaner]

how is there not any incentives for these systems to offset the costs if Trudeau actually cares about the environment with this carbon tax? lol...

Or at least make the programs easier to access. I looked into the federal one and man what a run around. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Lem Lamb]

Aim for a $1 a day,,, that sounds like reasonable cost...

Just enough too keep the lights on... lol

 

[ABMax24]

Oh 100%.

Solar is decreasing mid day demand, but the peak demand is still there when solar is doing sfa. Those power generation facilities cost money to keep operational. Yeah, their feedstock cost goes down during the day, but there's a lot of fixed costs, and the shareholders certainly aren't going to eat that.

California has "The Duck Curve" exactly because of that. They've got to double convention power production from about 3:00pm to 7:00pm to keep up with peak demand and dropping solar output as the sun goes down.