Solar Power

[52weekbreak]

All you need do is Google it. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/28/after-the-sunrush-what-comes-next-for-solar-power

Manufacturing scale and better technology has driven cost way down to purchase panels. People are gaining expertise in installations and competition helps control installation costs. A big and pricey panel in 2007 was about 100 watts of capacity was around $350. Now a 370 watt panel of the same size costs less than $300 so that seems pretty substantial in my book. 3.7 times the output for about a 15% reduction in cost or from $3.50 per watt down to .90 cents. Not bad for 10 years time. https://www.wholesalesolar.com/brands/canadian-solar

In 2000 my brother bought a 42 inch Sony Flat Screen Plasma TV and paid $13,000. Three years later, the same TV could be bought for $3,000. 18 years later you can get a much better 42 inch flat screen for about $300 on sale Technology moves on and that is why we have fuel injection on our sleds instead of those PITA carburetors.

The panels are improving faster than storage capacity. Lots of interesting things being tried but the lithium battery is currently still the leader of the pack and that is the Achilles heel for stand alone systems. I guess we will see where this goes but you can bet that electricity rates won't be going down any time soon.

What exactly has improved quite a bit in the last 10 years with solar?

Panels haven’t become more efficient, you can’t transfer more amps through the same diameter cable, if you are using batteries for storage controllers can only charge them to full, batteries are still batteries.

And I wouldn’t say the price is way down. Chinese panels have reduced the cost a little but it’s not way down.

 

[takethebounce]

All you need do is Google it. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/28/after-the-sunrush-what-comes-next-for-solar-power

Manufacturing scale and better technology has driven cost way down to purchase panels. People are gaining expertise in installations and competition helps control installation costs. A big and pricey panel in 2007 was about 100 watts of capacity was around $350. Now a 370 watt panel of the same size costs less than $300 so that seems pretty substantial in my book. 3.7 times the output for about a 15% reduction in cost or from $3.50 per watt down to .90 cents. Not bad for 10 years time. https://www.wholesalesolar.com/brands/canadian-solar

In 2000 my brother bought a 42 inch Sony Flat Screen Plasma TV and paid $13,000. Three years later, the same TV could be bought for $3,000. 18 years later you can get a much better 42 inch flat screen for about $300 on sale Technology moves on and that is why we have fuel injection on our sleds instead of those PITA carburetors.

The panels are improving faster than storage capacity. Lots of interesting things being tried but the lithium battery is currently still the leader of the pack and that is the Achilles heel for stand alone systems. I guess we will see where this goes but you can bet that electricity rates won't be going down any time soon.

I didn’t need to do anything. You did it for me lol

Interesting read though. I have often said they need to be able print solar cells. Imagine if your RV awning was a printed cell. Retractable power.

 

[Cdnfireman]

Certainly not challenging either your experience with solar or cost of equipment. I do point out that installing power on to a rural property, assuming you have power at the property line, runs $50 per foot. 1,000 feet = $50,000, delivery charges etc on top of the power you use and so on. Solar technology has improved quite a bit in the last 10 years and prices are way down. At some point the lines will cross.

Dont know where you’re getting your power install prices. I ran underground from the power line at the road at my farm. 800’ underground, 25kva pad mount transformer meter base etc. 18k all in.
and there’s way more to a solar install than the efficiency and cost of the panels. The storage is the high cost problem, and you still have to have a backup for the many days that the panels don’t provide enough power. They’re bailing on solar power all over the southern states where solar is a much more viable thing. At our latitude it’s even more cost prohibitive.

 

[team dirt]

Wat we need are generators that run on crude oil cause that sh!t is cheap. On a serious not though there has been little change in technology in the last decade. Solar charge controllers have improved a bit. They can now take a much larger input voltage which means you can series more panels together to increase the solar voltage and reduce wire size needed from the panels to the charge controller. Other than that panel pricing came down a lot but has pretty much hit bottom now. My cost on 330w panels is now down around 220$ from $240 for 280w panels 4years ago. 10 years ago the biggest panel we could get was 170w and they were just shy of 800$ other than panels going down everything else has gone up substantially. With the Canada dollar in the tank it has amplified those cost also as the electronic parts come out of the states.

 

[Caper11]

I didn’t need to do anything. You did it for me lol

Interesting read though. I have often said they need to be able print solar cells. Imagine if your RV awning was a printed cell. Retractable power.

Humm thats a great Idea actually, the awning would have lots of sun coverage.

 

[tiger666]

Except you wouldn't have any room for toys because you would have to haul a trailer full of batteries.

 

[ducati]

Until they take out the net zero rules and allow anyone to produce up to a certain amount of power (under 1 MW maybe) solar is a very long term payout. If we could produce more than we use and get paid for it that would ultimately help the government reach their arbitrary goals on “green” power and make a grid connected solar system viable. That would, however, not work with power companies as this would be putting power on the grid that they would have to pay for and would not sell for as high of a profit.

A stand-alone system is likely much more viable if you are willing to spend the money up front to set it up properly from the system components to the house and lifestyle changes that may happen. This would likely include a large solar array as well as a CHP (combined heat and power) unit that would assist in keeping the batteries charged and help heat/cool the house and water. Combine this with an electric daily driver and commuting becomes cheaper however the vehicle is likely much more expensive than the non EV alternative.

Unfortunately in an off grid system the battery storage is the weak link as cheap storage doesn’t last long before needing replacement and good storage doesn’t come cheap.

My thought is that on a new build you could set everything up as efficient as possible and run an off grid type system but on an existing house it would likely be much more difficult.

Ultimately I think this is a lifestyle choice as much as it is a financial decision. I think having an off grid solution versus normal power delivery very likely comes out around the same price over 10 years but maybe a self sufficient system is better over 20 years, if you stay in the same house for that long. Again, I don’t know the exact pricing either direction but I work in the instrumentation and emissions reduction end of the oil and gas industry so I have learned a few things about residential by osmosis.

 

[team dirt]

Until they take out the net zero rules and allow anyone to produce up to a certain amount of power (under 1 MW maybe) solar is a very long term payout. If we could produce more than we use and get paid for it that would ultimately help the government reach their arbitrary goals on “green” power and make a grid connected solar system viable. That would, however, not work with power companies as this would be putting power on the grid that they would have to pay for and would not sell for as high of a profit.

A stand-alone system is likely much more viable if you are willing to spend the money up front to set it up properly from the system components to the house and lifestyle changes that may happen. This would likely include a large solar array as well as a CHP (combined heat and power) unit that would assist in keeping the batteries charged and help heat/cool the house and water. Combine this with an electric daily driver and commuting becomes cheaper however the vehicle is likely much more expensive than the non EV alternative.

Unfortunately in an off grid system the battery storage is the weak link as cheap storage doesn’t last long before needing replacement and good storage doesn’t come cheap.

My thought is that on a new build you could set everything up as efficient as possible and run an off grid type system but on an existing house it would likely be much more difficult.

Ultimately I think this is a lifestyle choice as much as it is a financial decision. I think having an off grid solution versus normal power delivery very likely comes out around the same price over 10 years but maybe a self sufficient system is better over 20 years, if you stay in the same house for that long. Again, I don’t know the exact pricing either direction but I work in the instrumentation and emissions reduction end of the oil and gas industry so I have learned a few things about residential by osmosis.

Looks like we both do the same thing!! Been doing instrumentation for 20years now. Doing a ton of emission capture project for the last 10years.

 

[takethebounce]

Humm thats a great Idea actually, the awning would have lots of sun coverage.

Yeah I am just waiting on these printed solid cells to be Uber flexible. 3-4 large sections of the awning could be cells. You still have to consider shading depending on your location so rather than in series I would go parallel.

I think it’s still 15-20 years away to the point where it would be cost effective.

 

[ducati]

Looks like we both do the same thing!! Been doing instrumentation for 20years now. Doing a ton of emission capture project for the last 10years.

I have been in the business for 23 years now, pretty heavy in the methane reduction end of things now for the last couple years. Some major changes going on.

 

[team dirt]

I have been in the business for 23 years now, pretty heavy in the methane reduction end of things now for the last couple years. Some major changes going on.

Ya all we put in for chemical injection now is solar pumps and we’re just in the middle of a big project with a company called blue source swapping controllers and such to low bleed. I do a lot of incinerators and BTEX capture also. I think methane is going to become a bigger focus than CO2.

Back to solar talk. We have a large 15mw solar farm right outside of Brooks and they say it’s not subsidized but they are garunteed to be paid the 15mw if they make it or not. Most times the best it can do is around 7 or 8 and for a very short time. A bit this summer it was at 15. I work in a few gas generator demand plants that take up a few acres that consistently do 10mw when on. Solar will be the worst evil this province will see.

 

[Cdnfireman]

Once the NDP is a bad memory of history the subsidies for solar will disappear along with them and all these solar boondoggles will be dismantled and sold for scrap. As they should be.

 

[takethebounce]

Once the NDP is a bad memory of history the subsidies for solar will disappear along with them and all these solar boondoggles will be dismantled and sold for scrap. As they should be.

Wasn’t it the PC’s who started it? They had their EcoEnergy program that started the solar rebates about 7-8 years ago maybe longer.

 

[52weekbreak]

YBack to solar talk. We have a large 15mw solar farm right outside of Brooks and they say it’s not subsidized but they are garunteed to be paid the 15mw if they make it or not. Most times the best it can do is around 7 or 8 and for a very short time. A bit this summer it was at 15. I work in a few gas generator demand plants that take up a few acres that consistently do 10mw when on. Solar will be the worst evil this province will see.

Hunh. Not sure how that would work. A I understand it, suppliers of electricity in Alberta are paid based solely on their contribution to the grid. There are very frequent power auctions where all producers bid the amount of energy they will provide at the price at which they will do it. The explanation was some time back so a little fuzzy on the details but small producers typically provide a conservative estimate of what they can produce as they are penalized for under delivering. The grid after all is all based on estimates of power demand and making sure producers can meet that demand.

So at these power auctions, the estimated demand is set and producers line up and bid so a solar producer would have to commit to a certain amount of production and they will usually just bid at 1 cent per KW. As producers allocate production to satisfy the demand, the price goes up. The price for everyone is what the last producer bid to fill the capacity.

Now I am sure there are other programs that funnel additional funds back to clean energy producers - one for wind energy I recall - but that was all tied back to paying a higher price per KWH because the source was "green." Not sure how you could get full price for half the production. Sure would like me some of that!

 

[sledn]

Ya all we put in for chemical injection now is solar pumps and we’re just in the middle of a big project with a company called blue source swapping controllers and such to low bleed. I do a lot of incinerators and BTEX capture also. I think methane is going to become a bigger focus than CO2.

Back to solar talk. We have a large 15mw solar farm right outside of Brooks and they say it’s not subsidized but they are garunteed to be paid the 15mw if they make it or not. Most times the best it can do is around 7 or 8 and for a very short time. A bit this summer it was at 15. I work in a few gas generator demand plants that take up a few acres that consistently do 10mw when on. Solar will be the worst evil this province will see.

Live Report--zero output from Brooks solar panels now. As per usual people only see that it is capable of 15kw but producing 0 KW. Same as wind power -capable to produce 1445 KW..- Actually producing 52 KW. We as tax payers keep subsidizing the eco projects that will never be any where near profitable.

 

[X-it]

BC hydro knows their power, trouble is into todays world the experts are casted aside and the David Zuzukis and climate Barbies are the ones you should believe. Idiots and money grubbers comes to mind

http://energybc.ca/electricitymap.html



For those of you who zoomed in and found the Solar Plant here are the real results instead of the unicorn results



Todays power peak at 0.02 kilowatts of power, with an average of 0.01 kilowatts.....right off their site.

https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/pv/public_systems/Rm3B950977/overview?preview=1

 

[X-it]

Hundreds of billions of euros have been squandered on subsidies to wind and solar, all in an effort to reduce carbon dioxide gas emissions. However, that objective has failed too: CO2 emissions continue to rise.But you wouldn’t know it from what appears in the mainstream media. Its reticence to report on what’s actually going on in Germany probably stems from the adage about success having many fathers, and failure being an orphan. Having promoted Germany as the example of how we could all ‘transition’ to an all RE future, it’s pretty hard for them to suck it up and acknowledge that they were taken for fools.Germany provided the perfect opportunity to prove that a modern, industrial economy could run on sunshine and breezes and, therefore, ditch fossil fuels, altogether. However, the wind and solar industries are shrinking, as subsidies are slashed; old coal-fired power plants are being refurbished; and dozens of new coal-fired plants are being built. On any sensible reckoning, the Energiewende has been a monumental failure.​

 

[52weekbreak]

Just wondering where the information you are presenting comes from. Did a Google search and it was all pretty positive.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=germ....69i57j0l5.11612j1j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Hundreds of billions of euros have been squandered on subsidies to wind and solar, all in an effort to reduce carbon dioxide gas emissions. However, that objective has failed too: CO2 emissions continue to rise.But you wouldn’t know it from what appears in the mainstream media. Its reticence to report on what’s actually going on in Germany probably stems from the adage about success having many fathers, and failure being an orphan. Having promoted Germany as the example of how we could all ‘transition’ to an all RE future, it’s pretty hard for them to suck it up and acknowledge that they were taken for fools.Germany provided the perfect opportunity to prove that a modern, industrial economy could run on sunshine and breezes and, therefore, ditch fossil fuels, altogether. However, the wind and solar industries are shrinking, as subsidies are slashed; old coal-fired power plants are being refurbished; and dozens of new coal-fired plants are being built. On any sensible reckoning, the Energiewende has been a monumental failure.​

 

[X-it]

Just wondering where the information you are presenting comes from. Did a Google search and it was all pretty positive.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=germ....69i57j0l5.11612j1j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Lignite is the same as coal

 

[52weekbreak]

Lignite is actually not as good as many coals but the news here is that 36% was from wind and solar. In the UK, 29% was from wind and solar. As the technology improves, it will account for more. A 36% contribution is pretty significant in my view.

Lignite is the same as coal