riders with no or minimal avi training

[geelak900]

Bingo, crash course and experienced guides! Some info and the intent to recognize the risks and willingness to learn is all I suggest.
To be clear I would not suggest people don't go and experience the mountains, in fact I would encourage it, but do understand that there are serious risks that common sense may not be enough to protect you from and if you do ride there with any regularity, get some training and know how to work your gear. It has made a significant difference in how and where I choose to ride now.
One suggestion that has not been made here is if you're an inexperienced rider and you are in the mountains please ask some other groups or riders for some advise while your there, I can't say I've ever been asked. I see lot's of people doing things wrong and most that recognize this are not willing to speak up as the recipients are not always open to being told what to do. Mountain sledders are generally the most helpful bunch of sportsmen I know and if asked they will help.

 

[Shredder]

can a teenage girl get pregnant, having sex for the first time.

ENOUGH SAID.

Depends if she's with a guy or a girl.:d

 

[Shredder]

X2.... more often looking at my stuck trenches ... lol so ya pretty much all day long

Yep Darcy; that's the way I roll too. Getting stuck on every hill does have it's good points.

 

[snowprozr]

Well, for everyone who has informed other sledders about safety, risks, conditions, gear, equipment, locations, accommodations, mechanical issues, towing techniques...or lent a hand, or a roll of duct tape, or a beer....good on ya!. I recall my first mountain trips and learning a ton of stuff 'on the fly' from the guys I went with as well as many others. All of it was informal and 'free' education, but extremely valuable. There are inherent risks to any motor sport and the more training, information and gear you have, will hopefully reduce your risks...but I think we can all agree, there are no guarantees. In the end, we are all out there to have fun but sometimes the ol' impulses take over and we may do some um...'fool-hardy' things (or maybe it's just me).

Well Put!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Free Rider]

Just a quick question. To the people here preaching about avy courses and saying they won't ride with anyone who doesn't have the training because it puts people at risk. How many of you have no problems overloading your trucks with decks and trailers and exceeding the load capacity of your vehicle and putting people on the roads at risk. Just saying there is alot of people who preach about 1 thing, and are hypocritical about another.

 

[maxwell]

your right. im a hypocrit all around. someones gotta do it.

 

[tamsy]

As a few others have noted it would also be very benificial to get proper CPR training before going out. Three years ago my dad took my grandpa for a quick day trip to the mountains that they had both been rding for over twenty years. Every one in the group had proper gear and had practiced with it. Half way up through a mild ascent that our riding group had never seen slide, a big slide broke away. My dad was buried for about twenty minutes and not breathing when he was uncovered. The only reason he is alive today is because another riding group noticed him getting caught in the slide from another mountain top. They all had taking avalanch courses a greatly assisted in diggin him out. One guy there was a school teacher and knew CPR. He was able to bring him back and get him breathing again. With out that persons knowledge my dad would not have returned from that trip.

Another important note hear is always where the protective gear. This trip was supposed to be a joy ride in the valleys as no one in the group intended on doing any serious climbing that day. My family has ABS backpacks and my dad decided there would be no use for it that day. It could have saved him from such life threatenning experiance.

 

[powerteker]

Well I'm sorry I said commen sence! Lets just say I've been around enuff to know how to keep out of trouble...I did used to live in bc and I would say I've been outside alot more than in. I'm a outdoors kinda person and I would think I'd last a lot long than u city slickers when It comes down too it! Outdoors isn't camping in ur 30 foot fifthweel. I've learnt alot from life experience. like I said I probly will take the course sooner or later. now I'll just sit and watch again, oh yes forgot to say I have standard frist aid

 

[powerteker]

Just a quick question. To the people here preaching about avy courses and saying they won't ride with anyone who doesn't have the training because it puts people at risk. How many of you have no problems overloading your trucks with decks and trailers and exceeding the load capacity of your vehicle and putting people on the roads at risk. Just saying there is alot of people who preach about 1 thing, and are hypocritical about another.

I don't preach nothin to nobody! do whatever u think is best:d

 

[khaos_]

Okay this is getting nasty, so I am going to say some things to let you know how I feel. I have been sledding in the mountains for quite some time now, typically around Golden, & Revelstoke. The odd time I go to Corbin. I am heading to Golden on the 28th. I do not have avy training. BUT....BUT I do have the probe, shovel, beacon, and an ABS pack. I just bought the pack last year. It does not make me try to climb something I do not feel safe climbing. The first time I went riding in the mountains, I knew I would love it, so I bought the 3 main tools. Renting them is also very cheap, there is absolutely NO excuse to not have them. DO NOT ride with out it. It is absolutely retarded to do it with out. I do not care what anybody thinks, IT IS RETARDED. If you can not afford to rent it while going, PLEASE do not go. As for the avy course, I will take a course one day, when there is one in my area. The money is not the problem, it's the time. Also, like many other courses we are told we need all the time, I have not quite figured it out yet, exactly how beneficial it is. Lots of courses we are told we need just because it makes somebody money. Anybody take the course that has been in an avy lately? Like I have said before, I have never been in an avalanche yet, nor do I plan on it. I have seen others in avalanches though, on hills I decided not to climb. I want to practice more on helping those who are in one. I want to be able to save those that get caught. This is why I WILL take one. That being said, I am going on the 28th, without the course under my belt, and hopefully I will be fine. I am looking forward to testing myself at the training spot in Quartz. Thanks to those who set that up.

 

[Modman]

I have never been in an avalanche yet, nor do I plan on it.

Lots of other people probably said that too. And thought the mild terrain they were riding was not going to slide. Just sayin'.....

Don't take anything I say in the next section to heart - I'm just going to use some of your phrases as examples and highlight what I see as "flags" for me. I'm not trying to be d!ck, just pointing out some common things that could get people in trouble and trying to make people ride safer. This sport has taken to much from some of us already...

Avy rating just bumped another notch today. Golden has been lucky so far, there is going to be a big wreck there one day if people continue riding like fools, mark my words. Too many inexperienced riders doing stupid stunts on the hills, lots of guys keep saying "I'll just ride Quartz, its safe." Well, Quartz slid this time last year (at the poo stain) and one guy? (maybe two-can't remember) got caught up but were lucky. Quartz already slid this year and a few people were really lucky. That's an understatement. The guy that started the avy did not start it on purpose, and I'm sure he thought the area was safe to ride too and was riding there because other people were riding there....

Word on the street is that the snow is much like last year - snow on top of a weak layer and no base underneath. If you're reading this and saying to yourself - "Modman's an idiot - I'm going to stay on the safe stuff, he doesn't know how I ride" - then that right there is problem - How do you know what the safe stuff is? I'm honestly asking. We all think we have a "good" understanding of the "safe" stuff, but do we really?

You want people not to go riding without the gear, but you're willing to go riding when the snow conditions are poor at best, wouldn't you say that's retarded also? So many sledders do this. "I won't ride with "so and so", he doesn't have avy gear" but then they drive right out to the hills when conditions are high to extreme. We should be asking ourselves "what's worse - riding without gear or knowingly putting yourself in a risky situation?" The gear is only there to recover your body, if they get you alive its icing on the cake, but don't count your chickens before they've hatched. This is one of the things you'll learn in an avy course. Beacon, probe, pack and shovel are your last line of defence, your brain is your first.

You say time is holding you back from taking the course but yet you have been riding for "quite some time", why not take the course? Its only a weekend out of one riding season. The course teaches you how to use the gear, so its great that you think you know how to use it, but do you really? again, I'm honestly asking. Where I work we don't believe in taking "people's word" on when they say they are competent at something, we test them and then certify them. This is basically the premise of the avy course. Sure we all "say" we know how to use a beacon, but do we really? Hear that lots too.

OK so let's say that I am an idiot and you are a safe rider. But you come across someone else caught in an avy - Some other timelines you can think about - digging out a body 5 mins, doing CPR 10 mins, telling loved ones that they lost a dad/husband/friend maybe 2 hrs, filling out statement for police 1 hr, attending funeral 3 hrs. Believe me, out of the options, you'd take the course and lose a riding weekend every year if it meant you never had to any one of those other things, which take far less time than the avy course. Even if you are the safest rider in the world.

That's the problem with avy's - a false sense of security. Everyone thinks it won't happen or that they "know" the area, so they know better than mother nature. First rule - Don't think it will never get you.

Just so you don't think I'm full of it read here -
https://www.snowandmud.com/forum/f14/so-we-never-forget-lives-taken-16162.html

https://www.snowandmud.com/forum/14/tribute-lost-sledders-14087-3.html
I've been there, done that. I'm here trying to help other people so that they don't walk the same road I did.

 

[08summit]

I'm all for the Avy course and think that everyone should have it...but that being said you talk about a "false sense of security" how about the people that take the course and still continue to take huge risks putting themselves and others in danger?? You honestly believe everyone is smarter or gains what some of us call "common sense" from an 8 hr course...not sure what color the sky is in your world but there are always going to be people having a brain cramp and doing stupid things with or without Avy training.

I'm not trying to sound smarter then anyone else on here but I've taken my share of risks and I know I've done some stupid things on the hill that I look back @ and shake my head...and I'm sure I will be in some bad situations again this winter and hopefully I don't get bit on the a$$ but my point is you can only give knowledge and training to the people that are willing to learn it...I'm tired of people preaching about Avy courses and giving a "false sense" that everyone that has one will be safe...the truth is accidents happen and I for one hope that nobody has to die this winter in an Avy regardless of whether or not they had the course.

Like I stated above I am all for EVERYONE getting proper training but don't condone the guys that are out with the proper gear just looking to have a fun safe weekend...just my 2 cents.

 

[treemongrol]

Myself I have taken avy course, I also think that a person should take a refresher course, as far as riding with guys that don't have it, but have the proper gear, I'll ride with them providing that they at least have the understanding that they will know how to use their beacon to search for somebody. It also doesn't hurt when your sitting around at the end of the day or beginning of the day, have one guy stash a beacon and get the other guys to find it. I've seen alot of people panic and forget to switch there beacons to search. Keeping a level head out there is important. Knowing the terrian is important, and so is having common sense. But there's always that one voice that says U CAN DO IT and away you go, most of the time you come away unscathed, sometimes something bad happens. You can say "I'm not that guy", "I use common sense", "I won't put myself in that position." I say bulls**t, every person has the competive edge.

 

[imdoo'n]

Not sure what all the arguing is all about, an avi course will only give you the tools so you can make your riding decision, on what slopes and areas you want to ride on. it will give those that have no training some info on what causes avi's and why. You still see the same stupid avi causing riding on the slopes, must be uninformed, untrained riders, at least stupid. If you don't have any avi training, start asking what to do or not to do, and start practicing with your beacon and shovel. if you are one of the lame posters who shout out you don't need any training, stay TF away from me on the mtn slopes, as when you do stupid crap on the hill i intend to tell you about it, and at least inform you so that you are safe. if you don't think training is required then you may be one of the magnificent few, please quit trying to justify your choice, as you are enabling others to follow your choice andmaybe add to the avi stats.

 

[khaos_]

Are you f#*king guys kidding me!!!! It's like you look for an arguement. That is not what this site is about. You take peoples words, and pull sentences out of paragraphs, and make it look all wrong. ALL I said was I HAVE NOT BEEN IN AN AVY YET.......YET........YET....nor do I plan on it. WHO FREAKING PLANS ON IT MAN!!!! You guys are screwed. I have not been in one. I have seen lots of them. If I went into the mountains without the gear, and no education on how to use it....saw a slide and sledders get caught in it....I would not be able to live with myself after that for not spending the $25 to rent the stuff. I would not be able to handle sitting there....and just watch people die. Knowing that I couldn't even try. Enough said.

MODMAN, I have not been sledding yet this year. Dude, I am on 36 days straight right now, and I need it. I need to go, last year I had probably 10 rides in by now. I will check the conditions before I go, if they are bad, you bet your ass I am still going. I will hit the minor parts of Quartz, and Silent Pass. There is some good riding there without climbing the hills. If I get hit by a slide while riding up the trail, then I guess it was my time. Merry Christmas.

 

[khaos_]

This is crazy, Imdoo'n, are you referring to ME. If you are read my post again dude. You will see where it says, I will get a course under my belt, and I do want to train myself better with the beacon, & probe. I cannot believe you people as VIP members would say that going into the mountains with out the gear is all right if you don't have the cash for the rental. Come on, are you serious, are you that strapped for cash, you can not spend $25, but some of you guys preach the avy courses for $200. You guys are brilliant.

 

[Modman]

Are you f#*king guys kidding me!!!! It's like you look for an arguement. That is not what this site is about. You take peoples words, and pull sentences out of paragraphs, and make it look all wrong.

Sorry, was just trying to understand your words and way of thinking. If you feel that I mis-represented your words, my apologies. Wasn't really trying to start anything. Somehow, I knew this thread was going to go down this road...just like all the other avy threads....

WHO FREAKING PLANS ON IT MAN!!!!

No one plans on it man. That's my point. Ask anyone who's been caught in an avy, if they thought the riding they were doing that day was going to get them buried. Pretty sure you'll get an unanimous answer.

You guys are screwed.

I'm sorry that you feel this way.

I will check the conditions before I go, if they are bad, you bet your ass I am still going.

Have a good ride then. Be safe.

I will hit the minor parts of Quartz, and Silent Pass.

Where are the minor parts of Quartz?

...going into the mountains with out the gear is all right if you don't have the cash for the rental. Come on, are you serious, are you that strapped for cash, you can not spend $25, but some of you guys preach the avy courses for $200. You guys are brilliant.

Sorry, just trying to understand where this came from. I don't think any of the posters above advocated for riding in the hills without gear. VIP member status means nothing.

 

[Modman]

how about the people that take the course and still continue to take huge risks putting themselves and others in danger?? You honestly believe everyone is smarter or gains what some of us call "common sense" from an 8 hr course...not sure what color the sky is in your world but there are always going to be people having a brain cramp and doing stupid things with or without Avy training.

I agree, if you have the course but knowingly put yourself in danger then you are twice as bad as the guy that doesn't know.

No I don't think that an 8 hr course will teach you everything (or anythinkg if you're not willing to learn) and I never said that an avy course was the be-all, end-all of avy know how. The course is only as good as the student wants it to be.

I'm not trying to "fix" anything or change people's minds. Take my experiences - you can call me a liar, you can take my words at face value, or you can learn from others mistakes. Why do people get so worked up about other people's opinions? If you guys want to ride buck naked with a siberian tiger strapepd to the hood and no avy training, that's your personal preference/opinion on how you want to ride. Someone else's opinion shouldn't change that. Ist just an opinion. Take it for what its worth.

The sky is blue here.

Peace out!

Happy Holidays - Ride Safe!

 

[maxwell]

VIP members are like god.

 

[Bogger]

VIP members are like god.

Murminator is god and there can only be one.......Just sayin:d