Revy G and Momma, a discussion on the future...

[MOMMA]

So as not to highjack a thread, I'm going to say this Revy G,
I feel we are on a great path, and I work almost daily on projects with the BCSF and other User groups as we tackle very real issues at hand.
I am glad that you are discussing your feelings with me. Feel free to give me a call, my telephone number is on the ABCSnow Website. I am interested in your perspective, and have faith in the future for snowmobiling in British Columbia.
Feel free to vent here.

 

[RevyG]

Thanks for starting this.

So I understand there has been all sorts of issues in the past, key is past. If you say you work almost daily with the BCSF is there talk of becoming one again? Or are you trying to get clubs to leave the BCSF and join you? How do you feel about the clubs that have come back to the BCSF? You have yet, even though I have asked you more than once, as President, do you not feel that one association showing a united front on issuses is a stronger voice than two associations? Simple question.

also, does your assosiation have a seat at the The CCSO (Canadian Council of Snowmobile Organizations) which is the group that helps with dealing with all levels of Government?

I get it will not happen over night, but we, the new blood need to make it happen. Let the old boys fight or drag race it out. Time for the rest of us to grow up, put the BS behind us and work as one to keep the areas we have and get back the zones we have lost.

this is simple stuff, I am not saying you should ride? Or you need a? Not a one or the other issue. We are ALL in this for one reason, we love to sled ( man we need pow) and want our areas and rights looked after.

 

[deaner]

Obviously one club is going to be in everyones best interest.

But the attitude of "are you guys going to smarten up and come back to the BCSF?" is part of the problem. Yes the two need to unite, but I think some issues need to be addressed to make sure a split doesnt happen again. Why dont we discuss why the ABCSC was formed. Why did such a large group of good people leave the BCSF if nothing was done wrong? It needs to be addressed to move forward.

 

[RevyG]

Obviously one club is going to be in everyones best interest.

But the attitude of "are you guys going to smarten up and come back to the BCSF?" is part of the problem. Yes the two need to unite, but I think some issues need to be addressed to make sure a split doesnt happen again. Why dont we discuss why the ABCSC was formed. Why did such a large group of good people leave the BCSF if nothing was done wrong? It needs to be addressed to move forward.

obvious to you and I, but to the president?

Fair enough start a whole new association, hell, get the BCSF to join the ABCSC I could care less, let's just get together, ( sounds like an old song, haha) I agree issues need to be addressed, so let's address them, not run into our separate corners and point fingers. There is new blood on both sides, and we are in a new world where computers help keep things like money in check and more transparent. Problems can be worked out when we have the same goal.

 

[MOMMA]

Thanks for starting this.

So I understand there has been all sorts of issues in the past, key is past. If you say you work almost daily with the BCSF is there talk of becoming one again? Or are you trying to get clubs to leave the BCSF and join you? How do you feel about the clubs that have come back to the BCSF? You have yet, even though I have asked you more than once, as President, do you not feel that one association showing a united front on issuses is a stronger voice than two associations? Simple question.

also, does your assosiation have a seat at the The CCSO (Canadian Council of Snowmobile Organizations) which is the group that helps with dealing with all levels of Government?

I get it will not happen over night, but we, the new blood need to make it happen. Let the old boys fight or drag race it out. Time for the rest of us to grow up, put the BS behind us and work as one to keep the areas we have and get back the zones we have lost.

this is simple stuff, I am not saying you should ride? Or you need a? Not a one or the other issue. We are ALL in this for one reason, we love to sled ( man we need pow) and want our areas and rights looked after.

Gord, Neither Erin or I are trying to lure one another's clubs over. We have much greater issues to deal with right now. I will continue to be ABCSnow with pride, facilitating the operation and growth of each one of our clubs. How do I feel about the clubs that have gone back to the bcsf? I am not really sure how to answer that question. My goal, and I've stated it before, is to take care of the clubs that we have, reaching out and helping them with any needs they may have.
Some of your questioning is rhetorical, and I feel your "pushy in your face" attitude a bit discouraging. If you are trying to attract people to the merits of BCSF I'd suggest you present a much more inviting presence as no one wants to feel political pressure as a reason for uniting.
I stand by my convictions. ABCSnow is strong, we are growing we will look after our clubs, and I personally want to make a difference. I personally want to help our association, and our sport. I appreciate the work the BCSF is doing, and have tremendous respect for Erin, and his team. We have fun working together, and are highly productive. This will be a long standing relationship that will only benefit the sport of snowmobiling.

The new blood is making things happen, but truth be told, some of the old blood, from both sides have incredible value in knowledge and experience we can all learn from. Let it happen, it's like pushing string, you can try really hard, but in all reality it's near impossible to push string. Lets all work hard, whether or not we are ABCSnow or BCSF. Lets ALL get engaged writing Letters, being a presence locally, provincially and federally showing who we are as sledders to everyone out there. Let them see our families, let them see the ways we contribute to our communities, let them understand who we are by being incredibly active.
Lets all grow our clubs so that our BCSF and ABCSnow clubs grow to never before seen numbers. Whether or not we are one or two associations, if our people are not motivated it makes no difference. I suggest doubling efforts reaching out to media, ten fold the correspondence with Government through your club. Educating the general populations of the realities of some key issues such as Caribou and land access.

We can all do this, for in the end, we are ONE. we ARE SNOWMOBILERS

 

[RevyG]

Gord, Neither Erin or I are trying to lure one another's clubs over. We have much greater issues to deal with right now. I will continue to be ABCSnow with pride, facilitating the operation and growth of each one of our clubs. How do I feel about the clubs that have gone back to the bcsf? I am not really sure how to answer that question. My goal, and I've stated it before, is to take care of the clubs that we have, reaching out and helping them with any needs they may have.
Some of your questioning is rhetorical, and I feel your "pushy in your face" attitude a bit discouraging. If you are trying to attract people to the merits of BCSF I'd suggest you present a much more inviting presence as no one wants to feel political pressure as a reason for uniting.
I stand by my convictions. ABCSnow is strong, we are growing we will look after our clubs, and I personally want to make a difference. I personally want to help our association, and our sport. I appreciate the work the BCSF is doing, and have tremendous respect for Erin, and his team. We have fun working together, and are highly productive. This will be a long standing relationship that will only benefit the sport of snowmobiling.

The new blood is making things happen, but truth be told, some of the old blood, from both sides have incredible value in knowledge and experience we can all learn from. Let it happen, it's like pushing string, you can try really hard, but in all reality it's near impossible to push string. Lets all work hard, whether or not we are ABCSnow or BCSF. Lets ALL get engaged writing Letters, being a presence locally, provincially and federally showing who we are as sledders to everyone out there. Let them see our families, let them see the ways we contribute to our communities, let them understand who we are by being incredibly active.
Lets all grow our clubs so that our BCSF and ABCSnow clubs grow to never before seen numbers. Whether or not we are one or two associations, if our people are not motivated it makes no difference. I suggest doubling efforts reaching out to media, ten fold the correspondence with Government through your club. Educating the general populations of the realities of some key issues such as Caribou and land access.

We can all do this, for in the end, we are ONE. we ARE SNOWMOBILERS

I knew this would go this way, you calling me names. You, as I can tell by your responses are a Politician And a writer by the way you word stuff.
sorry if my question offended you, guess I will go back to my corner, bad me. At least I have the **lls to bring this up and try and figure it out. We wonder why guys and gals do not want to get involved? to much politics, guess I should just ride and let you guys figure it out.
One last time, if you would answer my question, not being pushy, just wonder what the President of the ABCSnow thinks, are we better served by one association than two. Why will you not answer me?

 

[gdawg]

Well said!

 

[MOMMA]

I knew this would go this way, you calling me names. You, as I can tell by your responses are a Politician And a writer by the way you word stuff.
sorry if my question offended you, guess I will go back to my corner, bad me. At least I have the **lls to bring this up and try and figure it out. We wonder why guys and gals do not want to get involved? to much politics, guess I should just ride and let you guys figure it out.
One last time, if you would answer my question, not being pushy, just wonder what the President of the ABCSnow thinks, are we better served by one association than two. Why will you not answer me?

At the risk of sounding overly Motherly, don't worry. There is so much good coming to fruition sweating the small stuff won't make one bit of difference. I do have faith this is all getting back on the rails. Like you said, it will take time, and the most important thing right now, is we are all working towards the same goal. I would only like to help, and never do harm. squishing 2 associations that are not ready to be one together is like mushing together a salmon and pb and J sandwich together. Totally wouldn't go together functionally. If we rush we absolutely WILL create independent clubs. I have discussed this matter with many clubs. Independents do nothing for the big picture, so I would absolutely not want to create this type of scenario.
Lets let everyone develop a relationship of trust and see where it goes. I still have time to talk to you if you'd like give me a call. I simply refuse to answer questions that are rhetorical and trying to put me on the spot. I too have metaphorical Balls (I'm a girl, so they must be metaphorical) I also have years of experience teaching children, so I tend to call out manipulative behaviour when I see it. It takes a LOT to offend me, my knickers don't get into a knot too easily, I'm Kootenay hippie at heart, so I tend to love more so than hate. My answer for you is, our sport is best served by people who can contribute to the needs of their clubs and the sport in general.
Seriously... have faith, just stay tuned.. there are so many great things happening. You are making this an issue right now, BCSF and ABCSnow are quite peacefully and productively working together for the common good.

 

[SledMamma]

I knew this would go this way, you calling me names. You, as I can tell by your responses are a Politician And a writer by the way you word stuff.
sorry if my question offended you, guess I will go back to my corner, bad me. At least I have the **lls to bring this up and try and figure it out. We wonder why guys and gals do not want to get involved? to much politics, guess I should just ride and let you guys figure it out.
One last time, if you would answer my question, not being pushy, just wonder what the President of the ABCSnow thinks, are we better served by one association than two. Why will you not answer me?

I think this is a perfect example of the need to drop attitudes and take the finger off the panic button... she never called you names and you reply by calling her a Politician and a writer (which is tantamount to calling her a liar and a sham artist at best). Not really a good way to go about burying the hatchet.

I will answer your question, and I think the members of both groups should also consider answering your question as it is a good one: Yes, I do think our interests would be better served as a united front... ie; one group. Perhaps, instead of luring people from one group to the other we need to consider a NEW name/organization and a new umbrella that encompasses all our sledder groups and unites our voice once and for all? I'm not sure how hard this would be to accomplish but it would be nice to see everyone lower their hackles and drop defenses for the greater good. (In the interest of full disclosure, I am the VicePresident of the Prince George Snowmobile Club which flies under the banner of ABCSnow)

 

[MOMMA]

I think this is a perfect example of the need to drop attitudes and take the finger off the panic button... she never called you names and you reply by calling her a Politician and a writer (which is tantamount to calling her a liar and a sham artist at best). Not really a good way to go about burying the hatchet.

I will answer your question, and I think the members of both groups should also consider answering your question as it is a good one: Yes, I do think our interests would be better served as a united front... ie; one group. Perhaps, instead of luring people from one group to the other we need to consider a NEW name/organization and a new umbrella that encompasses all our sledder groups and unites our voice once and for all? I'm not sure how hard this would be to accomplish but it would be nice to see everyone lower their hackles and drop defenses for the greater good. (In the interest of full disclosure, I am the VicePresident of the Prince George Snowmobile Club which flies under the banner of ABCSnow)

Are we best served by one association than two? If we force a situation, create internal conflict in the name of being under "one" umbrella, then create a ripple effect of clubs leaving and becoming independent because they are sick of the political crap.... no we are best served by two associations.

IF we can learn how to function together, have dealings that create trust, good relations, and most of all benefits to our sport, and unite and become strong, then we are best served by ONE association. That voice would be strong.

It's so much more than having One name, but rest assured, there are steps being taken right now to mend fences and develop a relationship based upon trust and a mutual respect.

 

[RevyG]

I think this is a perfect example of the need to drop attitudes and take the finger off the panic button... she never called you names and you reply by calling her a Politician and a writer (which is tantamount to calling her a liar and a sham artist at best). Not really a good way to go about burying the hatchet.

I will answer your question, and I think the members of both groups should also consider answering your question as it is a good one: Yes, I do think our interests would be better served as a united front... ie; one group. Perhaps, instead of luring people from one group to the other we need to consider a NEW name/organization and a new umbrella that encompasses all our sledder groups and unites our voice once and for all? I'm not sure how hard this would be to accomplish but it would be nice to see everyone lower their hackles and drop defenses for the greater good. (In the interest of full disclosure, I am the VicePresident of the Prince George Snowmobile Club which flies under the banner of ABCSnow)

Right on, first off if that is how you feel about politicians and writers I am sorry, and you are vice president. Since you want to know what I think, I meant by her answers, actually well written and carefully politically correct not what you accused me of. ( Read my grammar compared to hers and you should thank spell check or you would really be giving it to me.) And thank you for being honest and admitting that we would be better served by one association, what ever it may be. Single clubs who think they could go it themselves would not last long. Why, maybe I should bring it up here since we by far have the largest club in BC.

Am am just glad, even if it has ruffled some people wrong, that we, the members, are talking about this. The facts, for example, that has fired this up around Revy is the fact that we are not affiliated with Sicamous, even though we share terrain, users and conflicts. We would be better served by one group when dealing with government. Talking is the first step, you are right.

 

[RevyG]

Can anyone tell us why we have two associations? What really happened, first part of solving a problem is identifying it.
thanks

 

[moyiesledhead]

Can anyone tell us why we have two associations? What really happened, first part of solving a problem is identifying it.
thanks

It was identified long ago and corrected. It doesn't need to be re-hashed here. Personalities and attitudes about the issue at the time had a lot to do with it. Some of the older members in your club could probably fill you in.

 

[intmid8or!]

#oldschool

 

[tex78]

Right on, first off if that is how you feel about politicians and writers I am sorry, and you are vice president. Since you want to know what I think, I meant by her answers, actually well written and carefully politically correct not what you accused me of. ( Read my grammar compared to hers and you should thank spell check or you would really be giving it to me.) And thank you for being honest and admitting that we would be better served by one association, what ever it may be. Single clubs who think they could go it themselves would not last long. Why, maybe I should bring it up here since we by far have the largest club in BC.

Am am just glad, even if it has ruffled some people wrong, that we, the members, are talking about this. The facts, for example, that has fired this up around Revy is the fact that we are not affiliated with Sicamous, even though we share terrain, users and conflicts. We would be better served by one group when dealing with government. Talking is the first step, you are right.

I agree with u on the y revy and sicamous are separated

Dumb in my mind

sent while I should be drinking tea's

 

[team dirt]

I believe two organizations can help diverse the representation at the table with the goveRment officials. Our club in Seymour arm is always around 40 members and is just a locals kind of club. Our needs for representation we're never met as part of the BCSF so we voted as a club and went to the ABC. I understand the revelstoke club is over 10 times the size we are and by numbers would obviously deserve more attention but we as a club were not once notified about the major closures that took effect. We essentially lost 100% of our terrain with absolutely no notice. Over the years preceding this we were aware changes were coming but had thought we had our boundaries all laid out.(official maps were even made from the MOE) now we are forced to apply yearly to access a very small portion of what we once used to ride. Our closure is also in effect year round and we are only 30 miles as the crow flies north of Revy.

After moving over to the ABC I feel our voice has been listend to on a different level. In theory one voice makes sense but if played right 2 representing clubs could have a larger impact if they can unite on the major issues affecting the clubs they represent. Revyg if you are believing one voice is stronger then Sicamous and Revy should join and make 1 club. It sounds smart when you say it but I think with needs being different that it is more benificial to have 2 separate voices sitting at the same table.

 

[RevyG]

Thanks for that info, exactly the stuff I was hoping would come out of this. That sucks that happened to your club, you guys are right to be mad. I was not saying we should be one club, just under one organization.
I still feel with the complete changes that have gone on, after some tough choices were made, that the time is right to explore joining forces again. We can, and should all get along.

 

[Sledderglen]

When your government has to ask a question about organized snowmobiling in BC who do they ask? When the government wants a answer on a issue who do they ask first? What if ABC has a different view from BCSF. Which view does the government go with?

 

[MOMMA]

When your government has to ask a question about organized snowmobiling in BC who do they ask? When the government wants a answer on a issue who do they ask first? What if ABC has a different view from BCSF. Which view does the government go with?

Our governmental dealings are going well, with recognition and respect being given to both ABCSnow and BCSF. It's good. We seem to be on the same page with all issues at hand and working together for the common good on all governmental dealings put before the both of us at this time. It's a good time to work together. I'm thankful that my BCSF relationship is awesome, and I feel the same sense of appreciation being directed back at me.
Although I may present like some sort of a political Yoda Revy G .. smoke and mirrors man.. I basically am a mother who loves our sport with my entire soul. I've got great advisers from my board, and even some BCSF peeps helping me find my way through the politics of our sport.. oh man.. the days were the biggest frustration about sledding was being upside down in a treewell............ I feel like Edith bunker... "those were the days". but ultimately someone has to do it, and I am thankful to do so. Just don't lose faith at all, keep your eyes open for all of the ways we are working together, and all of the ways the sport of snowmobiling in BC will be stronger than ever.

 

[Modman]

can't we all just get along?