Revy G and Momma, a discussion on the future...

[team dirt]

Not at all. I think it has all started with a stolen jerry can! LOL!!

 

[catinthehat]

In my opinion we will never see one provincial organization again. The reasons for the split were as much emotional as anything else and as we all know hurt feelings take a long time to heal.
If the two organizations are able to continue communicating and negotiating so that they present a common united front when dealing with Government then there is no reason that our voice can"t be as strong as it ever was.
I think the most important part of this is neither side holding one on one meetings making deals that could set standards everyone else is expected to meet.
Keep up the good work MOMMA and Erin representing all of us. (even those that don't know you are doing it)

 

[Sledderglen]

The BIG players in Canada Ontario and Quebec also had multiple organizations at one time. The government didn't like this approach and played one against the other and made it work in their favor instead of the snowmobilers wishes. As we all know now there is only one federation per province in all provinces or territories. It was what those provinces needed to make the difference and it sure has worked or them.
Both organizations say it is working for BC but is It really?

 

[RevyG]

That is what I have been trying to say thanks. Not the first time I have been guilty of a good message, just a bad delivery! Thanks. All we can do is try, the old guard with their hurt feelings will go away and we can kick ass as one strong united voice. No matter what has been said, one voice is better and we all know that.

 

[fredw]

This last weekend was down in Montana, they had a club ride on Saturday where their club is also under attack of loosing there riding area to tree hungers, what they had did was have there congressman come to the ride event, and take in the event, there was many people that showed up to support there club and riding area, and hopefully have some extra support from congress... They gave money to two charities while he was there and turned it into a great outdoor health exspeirnce of the backcountry...

Events like this is what could help Revy look good as well, and give sledding a more positive look to society in general

 

[Modman]

This last weekend was down in Montana, they had a club ride on Saturday where their club is also under attack of loosing there riding area to tree hungers, what they had did was have there congressman come to the ride event, and take in the event, there was many people that showed up to support there club and riding area, and hopefully have some extra support from congress... They gave money to two charities while he was there and turned it into a great outdoor health exspeirnce of the backcountry...

Events like this is what could help Revy look good as well, and give sledding a more positive look to society in general

Over the years I have asked a number of people to come sledding (politicians, newspaper and TV folks etc), usually after they slam us in the media or write a beat down about our sport. Not ONCE has any of them taken me up on my offer. All I've heard is excuses.

 

[moyiesledhead]

The BIG players in Canada Ontario and Quebec also had multiple organizations at one time. The government didn't like this approach and played one against the other and made it work in their favor instead of the snowmobilers wishes. As we all know now there is only one federation per province in all provinces or territories. It was what those provinces needed to make the difference and it sure has worked or them.
Both organizations say it is working for BC but is It really?

Exactly!

 

[moyiesledhead]

Over the years I have asked a number of people to come sledding (politicians, newspaper and TV folks etc), usually after they slam us in the media or write a beat down about our sport. Not ONCE has any of them taken me up on my offer. All I've heard is excuses.

The BCSF has actually had some success at that. We've had a few politicians take us up on the offer......not that it made any difference with the Caribou issue. I think people over estimate how much influence our elected representatives really have in the general operation of the bureaucracy that is our Provincial Government.

 

[moyiesledhead]

can't we all just get along?

Look around the world. Mankind as a species really isn't very good at that.

 

[ferniesnow]

The BCSF has actually had some success at that. We've had a few politicians take us up on the offer......not that it made any difference with the Caribou issue. I think people over estimate how much influence our elected representatives really have in the general operation of the bureaucracy that is our Provincial Government.

Yes, the BC bureaucracy is laced with the green movement and the up and coming generations are following in the foot prints. Like everywhere else, the young kids in schools (particularly in the large urban areas) are inundated with environmental information and don't have a lot of room for thinking on their own.

With all the years of power, the present government hasn't made a lot of changes in the bureaucracy and when/if there is a change in government, rules for motorized recreation is only going to get worse. I have faith with the present change(s) in ABCSnow, progress will be made and both organizations will do the best they can for the sport we all love and cherish.

 

[Bnorth]

The BIG players in Canada Ontario and Quebec also had multiple organizations at one time. The government didn't like this approach and played one against the other and made it work in their favor instead of the snowmobilers wishes. As we all know now there is only one federation per province in all provinces or territories. It was what those provinces needed to make the difference and it sure has worked or them.
Both organizations say it is working for BC but is It really?

This is a good point. IMO having two associations makes snowmobilers look disorganized and childish. We couldn't even get a long and come to a consensus often enough to make the association work. If you are a government official with an issue that affects snowmobilers how would you even know who to approach about it? Business is all about efficiency and having to go through all the steps twice because there are two associations is the opposite of that. If we hope to have any influence with the government we need to make it easy for them.

All that said I am happy to hear there is a lot of cooperation between the associations, that is a new development and can only be a step in the right direction. Let's hope it continues and grows into an opportunity for a new, all inclusive association in a few years.

 

[Lund]

This is a good point. IMO having two associations makes snowmobilers look disorganized and childish. We couldn't even get a long and come to a consensus often enough to make the association work. If you are a government official with an issue that affects snowmobilers how would you even know who to approach about it? Business is all about efficiency and having to go through all the steps twice because there are two associations is the opposite of that. If we hope to have any influence with the government we need to make it easy for them.

All that said I am happy to hear there is a lot of cooperation between the associations, that is a new development and can only be a step in the right direction. Let's hope it continues and grows into an opportunity for a new, all inclusive association in a few years.

I've said it for year's now, the snowmobiling organization in BC is a JOKE and way behind the 8ball compared to the east. Before a real strong well organized group can be formed, you need to get ALONG with each other.
BCSF and ABCS need to put their BS differences aside, look at the eastern model on how it work's and modify it for the BC snowmobilers needs.

When i apply and pay for my yearly guiding permit, i never know if i'm in BCSF or ABCS, and niether does the goverment (ministry of forest) know what the hell is going on, well atleast that is what i'm told.
The worst part was a couple seasons ago one club in my guiding leasted land area was BCSF, but on the other side of the mountian, that club was ABCS....what an F n joke.....so guess what i was paying TWICE.

BTW now my little fun business is pretty much done....way to much BS in this province between goverment, BCSF and ABCS. No longer worth the effort.

 

[moyiesledhead]

The worst part was a couple seasons ago one club in my guiding leasted area was BCSF on one side of the mountian while the other side was ABCS....what an F n joke.....so guess what i was paying TWICE.

If it was 2 different clubs with 2 different management agreements you'd be paying twice anyway, no matter which Provincial organization they belonged to.

 

[Lund]

If it was 2 different clubs with 2 different management agreements you'd be paying twice anyway, no matter which Provincial organization they belonged to.

Correct but it was not, it was 2 different clubs with the same management(BCSF). Then one club decided to go to ABCS, so now i'm paying twice.
This BCSF and ABCS issue is BS and its hurting the sport in BC and people, like small operators. Like it did me.

 

[RevyG]

Thanks for posting your experiences guys, was starting to feel like I was alone on my thoughts on all this. We must keep brining it up. Maybe we should lean on our cousins from the east for some direction, no need to repeat mistakes others already have made.
just an idea, and we need them to make it happen, what ever it is called, it must be one organization.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Correct but it was not, it was 2 different clubs with the same management(BCSF). Then one club decided to go to ABCS, so now i'm paying twice.
This BCSF and ABCS issue is BS and its hurting the sport in BC and people, like small operators. Like it did me.

A management agreement is not with either provincial snowmobile organization. It's an agreement between the local club and the BC Forest Service Recreation Sites and Trails branch. It's the agreement that allows the individual clubs to collect fees from you as a commercial operator for operating on their groomed and maintained trail system(s). If you're operating in 2 different clubs agreement areas, you're gonna be paying twice no matter whether they are BCSF or ABCSC.

Did you have a Commercial Recreation Tenure?

 

[Lund]

While the management was under ONE i only paid once, i DID NOT pay the club as per say but sent my payments directly to the management with my permit #.
That was BCSF at the time.

 

[moyiesledhead]

While the management was under ONE i only paid once, i DID NOT pay the club as per say but sent my payments directly to the management with my permit #.
That was BCSF at the time.

What management? We may be confusing the word. Were you paying the BCSF for trail passes? If so they were just submitting the money back to the clubs. You definitely weren't paying the BCSF for a Commercial Recreation Tenure. That would go to the BC Ministry of Tourism. Did you have a tenure?

 

[Lund]

The cost of just getting into a guiding business is very high, but when you deal with issues that the BC snowmobiling bring's its hardly worth it.
We make very little guiding, between the cost of AST courses, first aid wilderness courses, rental equiptment such as extra beacon's probs and guide equiptment required by law, ect. licences, management permits, liability insurance...ect, ect. all out of my own pocket.
Ya there are a few wannabee guides out there winging it just at the edge of their seat, till something happens all is good. They avoid all the fee's, cost and BS but i hate to be them if something went sideways, people do rely on you 100% out there.

Now i hardly take guiding jobs, mostly only do the ones that they realy realy want my services and i don't charge anything if it works out on day's off and if i feel like doing it.
Now i more enjoy putting on fun rides, no BS to deal with and its all at your own risk, no money involved.
Such as this ride, i've now put on for 6 seasons, for FUN only
2014 Dootalk Back Country Mountain Ride - Mountain Riding - DOOTalk Forums

 

[Lund]

What management? We may be confusing the word. Were you paying the BCSF for trail passes? If so they were just submitting the money back to the clubs. You definitely weren't paying the BCSF for a Commercial Recreation Tenure. That would go to the BC Ministry of Tourism. Did you have a tenure?

Yes i did, paid BCSF directly and Ministry for yearly business permit.