Refusing Smart Meters in BC..?

[grizzlymud]

Lol no because now they have probably sub'd the install and up keep to a subcontractor and in the long run will cost the company more which in turn will cost the consumer more. As for them telling what exactly you are using in the house etc I'd like to see the prof? How can it tell that? I think it could tell how much power you are using but how to tell the difference?

 

[buck50]

Lol no because now they have probably sub'd the install and up keep to a subcontractor and in the long run will cost the company more which in turn will cost the consumer more. As for them telling what exactly you are using in the house etc I'd like to see the prof? How can it tell that? I think it could tell how much power you are using but how to tell the difference?

maybe not exactly what device turned on, but every little spike up or down would be recorded, and with some analysis most of it could be figured out if they wanted to!

 

[Shitfly]

Oh ya, for sure, this is a green project, saving energy that's wasted, more efficient, cost savings will be filtered down to the consumers!, 'nudge nudge, wink wink'- in the boardroom..
I don't get how they'd tell what brand, etc of appliance, but I'd net they know pretty clearly what appliance but the initial amp draw on start-up, run cycle time etc. What I think is screwed up is, if you're a solid citizen and made a dramatic change to your power consumption/time cycles, or maybe doing something that is hurting nobody but raises a red flag, it could be used as a means to check-up on you, for one example.
I'm surprised it's not contracted out to an overseas company for the whole project, that way the consumer would enjoy greater savings!!, wink, nudge..

 

[Steve D]

Cost savings: Think long term. No, cost ain't going down, but it might mitigate costs going forward from going up.

RF/Brain cancer, etc: If you're worried about health issues, get the frack away from cell phones, wifi, cordless phones, avalanche beacons, car radios, satellite tv and so on. Industry Canada puts down some rules and if these devices are using 900MHz like their counterparts in the states, then the output power is regulated. I want to slap every idiot that spreads the "rf health problems" bullch!t. (This blatant lie is right up there with "chemtrails" and should be treated like dihydrogen monoxide.)

Accuracy: For the folks that are getting charged more, did you stop to think that maybe it isn't lying... it's just more accurate? The folks who's bills went down, we'll never hear a peep from them...

Privacy: EL OH EL at people who prefer creepy dudes in their backyards. Jus' sayin'. Here's what kind of info they'll discover: You probably have an old fridge that kicks in at such and such time, you have electric heat, and use more power at 5pm than other times of the day. They will not know that you were watching porn or that you were writing a manifesto to kill Obama and start a new world order. The amount of data is so large, they wouldn't know what to do with it other than find some fun statistical averages. STEVE HAS AN ELECTRIC SHAVER! QUICK! SEND HIM AD'S ABOUT NEW ELECTRIC SHAVERS!

Real problems that should be of concern:

Spectrum availability: (Speculative, based on what is used south of the border) If these units are using 900MHz, well, that band is a mess already in populated areas. The tech being used seems to hop channels. It's a giant mesh network that blasts in every direction. Annoying as hell for industry that tries to use unlicensed radio gear. Not exciting and Joe Blow won't give a crap, nor will anyone that licenses spectrum... but whatever.

Installation without notifying the homeowner directly: It's kind of "meh" to me, but some OCD folks just prefer to schedule the day it happens for a number of reasons (turning things off, make sure they aren't working on important stuff) Courtesy more than anything... hell the guy that installed my parents smart meter didn't even ring the doorbell to say they were doing it.

Better PR: More info? An opt-in ahead of time before the big switch? I dunno.

 

[bigz64]

holy hell you are a paranoid bunch of guys, i do electrical utility metering for a living and almost everything you guys are talking about is false, the old guy in a video needs meds...

first of all the one thing you should always remember is that electricity is not guaranteed, its not a right you choose to purchase it from the utility who supplies it.

the main point of smart metering is not to reduce the amount of electricity consumed in a region its to minimize the peak loads in the busiest times of the day (morning and afternoon when you are showering and making coffee and cooking meals). with smart metering the utility or energy provider will offer you a lower rate at night when the demand is low and will charge you more at peak times. if it saves money in the long run time will tell, well it works in Europe and they have doing some form of smart metering for a couple decades

now these meters take a snapshot every 15,30 or 60 mins depending on the utility. they dont continuously monitor what power usage at every given second, that would be a logistical nightmare and we would need server farms the size of cities just to store all the info. so with that in mind they cant tell if you turned on your oven, started brushing your teeth or recharging your vibrator. even if they did the government doesnt want to know what everyone does people are generally boring.

about the pot growing thing, people who operate grow-ops will not use their metered power as that is a dead give away, plus then they will have to pay the high power bill, duh... the smart grow-ops tap in before the meter and run on their own system totally isolated from the rest of the house. the way we catch grow-ops are transformers that are meant for 5-10 houses will over heat and continuously blow fuses

if they are catching people for running home based businesses, whats the point of chasing down a $10-$100 fee for a business? when they are spending so many man hours trying to catch home based businesses hahahaha. the smart meter program coming to alberta will cost about 3 billion

the meter is the property of the utility so if you lock it they will ask nice the first time for you to remove it then after that they will disconnect your power at the transformer and then send you a bill for man and truck hours. plus all meters will have to be changed every few years as per measurement canada regulations

about the RF thing, all utility types have been using some form or RF in their meter reading processes for years now so why is it a big deal now???

im a field guy so i get called out to a lot of places for high complaints and everytime im right, i use a power analyzer that is worth more than your brand new truck. people dont realize that all these appliances you have are always using power even a cell phone charger not charging a phone is using power, the clock on your fridge or oven, and so on...

there is one bit of truth though... those new meters are screwing up sort of the time but not in the way everyone thinks, they are adding $1000s of dollars in only a few days, not $50 extra month. we are taking these cases to GE and Itron and we will see what happens

one last point, you dont have to be connected to the grid you can try the off grid thing...

 

[FernieHawk]

holy hell you are a paranoid bunch of guys, i do electrical utility metering for a living and almost everything you guys are talking about is false, the old guy in a video needs meds...

first of all the one thing you should always remember is that electricity is not guaranteed, its not a right you choose to purchase it from the utility who supplies it.

the main point of smart metering is not to reduce the amount of electricity consumed in a region its to minimize the peak loads in the busiest times of the day (morning and afternoon when you are showering and making coffee and cooking meals). with smart metering the utility or energy provider will offer you a lower rate at night when the demand is low and will charge you more at peak times. if it saves money in the long run time will tell, well it works in Europe and they have doing some form of smart metering for a couple decades

now these meters take a snapshot every 15,30 or 60 mins depending on the utility. they dont continuously monitor what power usage at every given second, that would be a logistical nightmare and we would need server farms the size of cities just to store all the info. so with that in mind they cant tell if you turned on your oven, started brushing your teeth or recharging your vibrator. even if they did the government doesnt want to know what everyone does people are generally boring.

about the pot growing thing, people who operate grow-ops will not use their metered power as that is a dead give away, plus then they will have to pay the high power bill, duh... the smart grow-ops tap in before the meter and run on their own system totally isolated from the rest of the house. the way we catch grow-ops are transformers that are meant for 5-10 houses will over heat and continuously blow fuses

if they are catching people for running home based businesses, whats the point of chasing down a $10-$100 fee for a business? when they are spending so many man hours trying to catch home based businesses hahahaha. the smart meter program coming to alberta will cost about 3 billion

the meter is the property of the utility so if you lock it they will ask nice the first time for you to remove it then after that they will disconnect your power at the transformer and then send you a bill for man and truck hours. plus all meters will have to be changed every few years as per measurement canada regulations

about the RF thing, all utility types have been using some form or RF in their meter reading processes for years now so why is it a big deal now???

im a field guy so i get called out to a lot of places for high complaints and everytime im right, i use a power analyzer that is worth more than your brand new truck. people dont realize that all these appliances you have are always using power even a cell phone charger not charging a phone is using power, the clock on your fridge or oven, and so on...

there is one bit of truth though... those new meters are screwing up sort of the time but not in the way everyone thinks, they are adding $1000s of dollars in only a few days, not $50 extra month. we are taking these cases to GE and Itron and we will see what happens

one last point, you dont have to be connected to the grid you can try the off grid thing...

I agree with everything you said...except what I highlighted in RED. The utilities will not OFFER you 'Time Of Use' rates...they will force you onto it. If you use electricity to heat your house, like a lot of people do in BC, you will get screwed unless your heating system has some way to COMFORTABLY control when your resistance heat activates. The ONLY way to do this is if you have a Radiant Concrete Heat system that allows you to Heat during the cheaper periods and COAST through the expensive periods.

People that heat with electricity (forced air, baseboard) are in for a rude awakening...don't get me started on the so-called clean electric and hybrid car sh!t.

 

[ZRrrr]

I believe 60 Minutes did one of their investigative reports on the Smart Meters in California. Lots of people not happy. Some legal action to block it. Been successful in some places. You can refuse. A big invasion into privacy and multiple issues with the units. Do some research it does indeed make one question the intent.

Some peeps have figured out ways to mess with it, without opening the unit, and cut their bills a fair bit.

 

[overkill131313]

well you can tell you guys work for someone that knows someone.......im not going to get into a pissing match like all the maxwell treads last night......but if I had anything to do with the power companies......I would say what you did just to make sure I had a job down the road. there was a meeting in our area, and lets just say it was not good for BC hydro! I have no problem with one cell phone but 100 right next to a bedroom window that make a call to the 10 house beside you is going to cause a lot of $h!t down the road......im by no means a "safe" person, but I dont walk into a burning building. there is so many problems with the human body now.......and everything is fixed with a drug......maybe we should start using our head and slow down a bit......even if there is a slight chance down the road? we need power, but what is wrong with the old way when the guy walks around from house to house to read a meter.......really? one less guy that is not getting fat sitting behind a high paying job, collecting money from the higher guys, to make this world so confusing.......I know what I think! sorry for any spelling issues, my dam keyboard is acting up! I'm not here to fight!

holy hell you are a paranoid bunch of guys, i do electrical utility metering for a living and almost everything you guys are talking about is false, the old guy in a video needs meds...

first of all the one thing you should always remember is that electricity is not guaranteed, its not a right you choose to purchase it from the utility who supplies it.

the main point of smart metering is not to reduce the amount of electricity consumed in a region its to minimize the peak loads in the busiest times of the day (morning and afternoon when you are showering and making coffee and cooking meals). with smart metering the utility or energy provider will offer you a lower rate at night when the demand is low and will charge you more at peak times. if it saves money in the long run time will tell, well it works in Europe and they have doing some form of smart metering for a couple decades

now these meters take a snapshot every 15,30 or 60 mins depending on the utility. they dont continuously monitor what power usage at every given second, that would be a logistical nightmare and we would need server farms the size of cities just to store all the info. so with that in mind they cant tell if you turned on your oven, started brushing your teeth or recharging your vibrator. even if they did the government doesnt want to know what everyone does people are generally boring.

about the pot growing thing, people who operate grow-ops will not use their metered power as that is a dead give away, plus then they will have to pay the high power bill, duh... the smart grow-ops tap in before the meter and run on their own system totally isolated from the rest of the house. the way we catch grow-ops are transformers that are meant for 5-10 houses will over heat and continuously blow fuses

if they are catching people for running home based businesses, whats the point of chasing down a $10-$100 fee for a business? when they are spending so many man hours trying to catch home based businesses hahahaha. the smart meter program coming to alberta will cost about 3 billion

the meter is the property of the utility so if you lock it they will ask nice the first time for you to remove it then after that they will disconnect your power at the transformer and then send you a bill for man and truck hours. plus all meters will have to be changed every few years as per measurement canada regulations

about the RF thing, all utility types have been using some form or RF in their meter reading processes for years now so why is it a big deal now???

im a field guy so i get called out to a lot of places for high complaints and everytime im right, i use a power analyzer that is worth more than your brand new truck. people dont realize that all these appliances you have are always using power even a cell phone charger not charging a phone is using power, the clock on your fridge or oven, and so on...

there is one bit of truth though... those new meters are screwing up sort of the time but not in the way everyone thinks, they are adding $1000s of dollars in only a few days, not $50 extra month. we are taking these cases to GE and Itron and we will see what happens

one last point, you dont have to be connected to the grid you can try the off grid thing...

 

[bigz64]

no one uses electric heat as a primary in alberta, so that would be like you said a rude awakening. ya and my bad they wont offer it everyone will have to pay the time of use. industry has been paying time of use for decades in alberta. like i said Europe has been doing time of use for many decades so there will be our evidence if it works or not.

another note i forgot to add, transalta recently decommissioned one of their power plants without replacing it so that has pushed up rates in alberta and bc. they also have no plans to replace it so that will keep our power prices high.

we are coming into a real bad power crisis in alberta in the coming years, our transmission system is to small for the amount of load we are adding and we arnt building any more power generation... everyone on here should be worrying about rolling blackouts and brownouts due to there not being enough power for everyone at the same time

 

[Cyle]

Off the grid is coming more and more. Heard from a lot of people they want 10G's to run power from the road to the house maybe 100'. Off the grid is way cheaper and no crooks to deal with. Power, gas etc can only bully and control people as long as they stand for it. Imagine what they would do if everyone refused to pay their bill for a month? Good luck trying to turn off power to everyone. Companies would be on their knees begging in no time. I am in the process of fighting with direct energy and atco, trust me they won't win. Told them they should of picked up their meter a long time ago if they expect to be paid stupid fees and backcharging four months when no usage, $110 connection fee when they didn't properly give notice about disconnection. Fawk them they can send it to collectors to try and get that money. Already told them I know you can't turn off my gas! funny how they think they own the line to the house to shocked when you inform them they are wrong, meter is there's NOTHING else. Dont get me started on how much utility companies charge to put in the service in the first place.

 

[bigz64]

well you can tell you guys work for someone that knows someone.......im not going to get into a pissing match like all the maxwell treads last night......but if I had anything to do with the power companies......I would say what you did just to make sure I had a job down the road. there was a meeting in our area, and lets just say it was not good for BC hydro! I have no problem with one cell phone but 100 right next to a bedroom window that make a call to the 10 house beside you is going to cause a lot of $h!t down the road......im by no means a "safe" person, but I dont walk into a burning building. there is so many problems with the human body now.......and everything is fixed with a drug......maybe we should start using our head and slow down a bit......even if there is a slight chance down the road? we need power, but what is wrong with the old way when the guy walks around from house to house to read a meter.......really? one less guy that is not getting fat sitting behind a high paying job, collecting money from the higher guys, to make this world so confusing.......I know what I think! sorry for any spelling issues, my dam keyboard is acting up! I'm not here to fight!

im just stating my point that i have to tell on a daily basis so i have that whole speech memorized. im also not here to fight just inform. in our utility we have been reading the meters over the power line for over 15 years which yes have replaced our meter readers. we dont use an RF system of any type as the system we use is by far the cheapest solution out there. when we were still using meter readers we were spending 15 million a year, thats late '90s prices, now we spend 2 million in 2011 prices. so it does save us money with a 98% read rate.

the problem with RF is no one knows if it will cause issues, probably not. just as people are saying wifi will cause cancer, just like people in sherwood park saying living near a power line will cause cancer. i wouldnt worry about it, id worry about vehicle accidents

and i do want to build an off the grid cabin in the woods

 

[overkill131313]

we need to quit selling all our power from BC to california........keep it for our own people......same with water and oil! but that is a different thread!

no one uses electric heat as a primary in alberta, so that would be like you said a rude awakening. ya and my bad they wont offer it everyone will have to pay the time of use. industry has been paying time of use for decades in alberta. like i said Europe has been doing time of use for many decades so there will be our evidence if it works or not.

another note i forgot to add, transalta recently decommissioned one of their power plants without replacing it so that has pushed up rates in alberta and bc. they also have no plans to replace it so that will keep our power prices high.

we are coming into a real bad power crisis in alberta in the coming years, our transmission system is to small for the amount of load we are adding and we arnt building any more power generation... everyone on here should be worrying about rolling blackouts and brownouts due to there not being enough power for everyone at the same time

 

[Cyle]

no one uses electric heat as a primary in alberta, so that would be like you said a rude awakening. ya and my bad they wont offer it everyone will have to pay the time of use. industry has been paying time of use for decades in alberta. like i said Europe has been doing time of use for many decades so there will be our evidence if it works or not.another note i forgot to add, transalta recently decommissioned one of their power plants without replacing it so that has pushed up rates in alberta and bc. they also have no plans to replace it so that will keep our power prices high.we are coming into a real bad power crisis in alberta in the coming years, our transmission system is to small for the amount of load we are adding and we arnt building any more power generation... everyone on here should be worrying about rolling blackouts and brownouts due to there not being enough power for everyone at the same time

o no I'm shaking in my boots. No different then the diesel shortage BS. They know how much this province is growing and how much power is needed, they just want a shortage to stick it to the consumer. What's new. Why the fawk should the power price change 2-4 times a month, changing sometimes 50%....

 

[bigz64]

o no I'm shaking in my boots. No different then the diesel shortage BS. They know how much this province is growing and how much power is needed, they just want a shortage to stick it to the consumer. What's new. Why the fawk should the power price change 2-4 times a month, changing sometimes 50%....

power price changes 2-4 times a day always has always will now they are going to make everyone follow those ups and downs. we have been having it lucky in north america

 

[Cyle]

power price changes 2-4 times a day always has always will now they are going to make everyone follow those ups and downs. we have been having it lucky in north america

small changes I can see but not like 50%...Fawk though the usage doesn't even matter the bill is all fees.....

 

[imdoo'n]

anyone one have extra popcorn and a few cold beers, cyle is on a roll.

 

[Shitfly]

Wow, some good responses. Now I'm left wondering if this thread is Cycle approved!, joking.
I understand the angles of all the points made, but the fact of the matter is, none of the issues I have seen personally with these meters has been addressed, and I have not been able to voice my concerns to BC hydro, sure seems like they are not telling the while story, so ya it feels very shady to me.
If I was to build, damn rights, fully off the grid, but conversion is not going to happen for me right away. If Europe is so great at figuring out there power issues, and we are following them, why don't we have massive incentive programs for people to set up and establish some alternative power for households?..oh ya, forgot, BC Hydro and all the other energy companies have the government and people by the short hairs, crooked fawkers.
Either way, I'm sure they'll get this pile of crap meter in, and if the bills skyrocket at the shack, I'll just bring a genset for the times I'm there, see how long the neighborhood puts up with that I guess..

 

[bigz64]

small changes I can see but not like 50%...Fawk though the usage doesn't even matter the bill is all fees.....

those fees directly pay for powerline maintenance and my wages, which is all sky rocketing with high operating costs and fuel costs. anything over is profit which is strictly limited and watched by the government

 

[bigz64]

Wow, some good responses. Now I'm left wondering if this thread is Cycle approved!, joking.
I understand the angles of all the points made, but the fact of the matter is, none of the issues I have seen personally with these meters has been addressed, and I have not been able to voice my concerns to BC hydro, sure seems like they are not telling the while story, so ya it feels very shady to me.
If I was to build, damn rights, fully off the grid, but conversion is not going to happen for me right away. If Europe is so great at figuring out there power issues, and we are following them, why don't we have massive incentive programs for people to set up and establish some alternative power for households?..oh ya, forgot, BC Hydro and all the other energy companies have the government and people by the short hairs, crooked fawkers.
Either way, I'm sure they'll get this pile of crap meter in, and if the bills skyrocket at the shack, I'll just bring a genset for the times I'm there, see how long the neighborhood puts up with that I guess..

i agree the government should be offering incentives for green power and alternatives, but fossil fuels are still way cheaper than any other power source available to us.

i cant say for bc hydro but for us we are pulling meters that are not reading correctly and contacting the manufacturers as this is their problem

if you think your meter is reading high ask for a dispute or ask them to come out with a meter accuracy verifier and check your meter. they have to if you ask for it, but if your wrong you have to pay for all costs. a dispute will lock your meter in a box and send it away for measurement canada to test the meter

 

[JayBec]

i think its alll BS, everyone just has to b conscious of their power usage, ie turn the light off when your not in that room etc...
yes the government is always raping us, and there is nothing we can do...sometimes we win the fight and others we dont....

just gotta be smart with it....