My experience with the Tesla Model 3

[X-it]

Just wait until you get stuck on the end of that umbilical cord at 30 below and have all those angry guys waiting behind you in line wonder what the hell you are doing. Don't say you have not been warned !!

 

[jhurkot]

So the current 12-charger installations have fully rated 3MW utility supply?

The 250kw v3 will be turned up to 300kw soon so it wouldn’t surprise me.

 

[Summitric]

News Flash: There Are No Self-Driving Cars on Sale Today​

You don't own an autonomous vehicle, no matter what the marketing implies.​

Scott EvansAuthorMotor Trend StaffPhotographer
Jul 28, 2021
A public service announcement: There are no self-driving cars for sale—anywhere—today. You don't own a self-driving car, no one you know does, and anyone who tells you differently is wrong. And dangerous.


This seems like something car fans should already know; it's something MotorTrend has reiterated in our stories. However, it's become abundantly, disturbingly clear the message isn't reaching an increasing number of people. So, I'll say it louder: You cannot buy a self-driving car. They don't exist outside of the tech companies trying to develop them, and they likely won't exist in public for many more years.

What exists today is a collection of technologies called Advanced Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS), which can handle basic driving tasks for short periods of time in specific, ideal conditions. ADAS must be monitored at all times, and the car's driver must be alert, undistracted, and prepared to take control at any moment. The best ADAS available today allow drivers to take their hands off the wheel but not their eyes off the road.

These systems fall under the Society of Automotive Engineers' (SAE) classification system as SAE Level 2. That's level two out of five. What you think of as real self-driving or autonomous driving, where a car pilots itself anywhere at any time in any conditions, is Level 5. Sorry, but we're a long, long way from Level 5.

Even Level 4 is a long way off. It's what companies like Waymo (Google) and Cruise (GM) are working on, and although those vehicles will be able to drive themselves on a nice day, they won't be able to do so in all conditions. Bad weather is incredibly difficult for computers to deal with as both the roadway and the sensors that read it become obscured. People can, generally, figure out how to drive down a road covered in snow or mud without being able to see lane lines or the road's edges. We can see through rain and snow, even if we have to slow to a crawl to do it safely. Teaching a computer to do either is proving incredibly difficult.

What about Level 3? Glad you asked. Many automakers consider it to be so dangerous, they plan to skip it entirely. Level 3 means a car can drive itself completely in good conditions, but the driver still has to pay attention and be ready to take over at any time. Problem is, study after study shows humans are absolutely terrible at this kind of multitasking and refocusing.

In a matter of minutes, people become complacent and overconfident in the computer. Their minds wander. They daydream, check their phone, play with the radio, dig through a bag or bin, fall asleep, or do any number of things other than sit and stare at the road, ready to resume driving themselves. Worse, those studies also show human reaction times become dangerously long when the car stops driving itself and tells them to take command. We need much longer than normal to process what the car tells us, read the environment, read the situation, and react. That kind of delay is almost a guaranteed disaster, and it's potentially fatal.

In fact, it's already happening with these advanced Level 2 systems. A number of high-profile crashes involving Teslas, several of them deadly, have been linked conclusively to distracted drivers who thought their cars could drive themselves. Wannabe influencers are posting pictures and videos of themselves playing on their phones, pretending to sleep, or even climbing out of the driver's seat of a moving car running Level 2 tech. Some idiot rich kid in California keeps getting arrested for riding in his Tesla's back seat because he moronically believes the car can drive itself. It won't happen just in Teslas for long, either, as more brands bring this technology to market.
Much of this confusion lies at the feet of poor communication. Poorly named and marketed Level 2 systems have, intentionally or not, given many people the impression their cars are far more advanced and capable than they are. Adding easily defeated attention-monitoring systems and a fine-print disclaimer on the screen hardly makes up for a CEO going on TV news and letting the car attempt to drive itself while he takes his hands off the wheel and his eyes off the road speaking to the reporter next to him. Neither does a one-line disclaimer halfway down the driver assistance section of your corporate webpage.

The industry has known this for decades. As William F. Sherman, then technical director of the Automobile Manufacturers Association, was quoted in 1961, "We've long since given up on the idea that the motorist will read the owner's manual."
If you won't read the owner's manual, or the warning/agreement on your car's screen, or the manufacturer's website, then read this one more time: You do not own a self-driving car. There are no self-driving cars for sale today. Keep your eyes on the road at all times. And spread the word.

 

[Cyle]

It seems like having a positive experience about anything is all about staying ahead of the crowd. Anything we enjoy can be destroyed if everyone else is doing it. This is a very good time to have an electric vehicle. No road tax, empty chargers (in most cases), parking only second tier to handicaps, government incentives and relatively cheap to operate. I hope this can evolve to be attractive from more than just the idea of being green as that may not sell everybody. Those that scoff at the carbon footprint can't argue with the torque, speed and low maintenance that is offered with this technology. Just 5 years ago I said that e-bikes were a joke, now I wouldn't mind having one. That said, if the government starts demanding registration, insurance, helmets and a drivers license on such a bicycle, I'm out.

So what you're saying is, buy an EV so the rest of the taxpayers can subside it so it's viable? That's BS. Why don't you just go tell everyone to sit on welfare, it's the same thing free money for nothing. There needs to be a road tax put on EV yesterday, it's absolute garbage that they aren't paying for it. I hope it's even retroactive and slaps all these EV with 5 digit bills.

Buy an EV for all I care, but don't expect me to pay for it for you.

 

[Cyle]

And as far as waiting in line for gas, in my whole life I have never waited more then 10 minutes to fuel up ever, so no waiting hours for gas is not normal here nor has it ever been. Just more delusional BS trying to justify an EV.

Funny how this morning an article pops up about a tesla wedging itself against a pole when the summon feature was used. Fawk people are stupid in thinking that the technology is actually there for real self driving vehicles.

 

[Teth-Air]

So what you're saying is, buy an EV so the rest of the taxpayers can subside it so it's viable? That's BS. Why don't you just go tell everyone to sit on welfare, it's the same thing free money for nothing. There needs to be a road tax put on EV yesterday, it's absolute garbage that they aren't paying for it. I hope it's even retroactive and slaps all these EV with 5 digit bills.

Buy an EV for all I care, but don't expect me to pay for it for you.

I'm not saying I like the structure only this is the way it is. I totally agree with you that everybody should be treated equally and no one should get a free ride. Currently if you own a EV you are taking advantage of a tax loop hole. Most people on here would reduce their tax if they could even if they knew others would have to pay more because of it. Currently it is legal to do so and we all have to accept it or if passionate enough, work to change it.

 

[Summitric]

Our Tesla Model 3 Hasn't Delivered Big Savings in Maintenance Costs​

We've also spent serious money on windshield, roof, and tire replacement.

BY DAVE VANDERWERP
JUL 29, 2021

VIEW PHOTOS

MICHAEL SIMARICAR AND DRIVER

30,000-Mile Update​

One of the pitches we hear often on the switch to EV ownership is that electric vehicles are cheaper to maintain. But, as we close in on 40,000 miles in a Tesla Model 3, the actual savings in service costs is turning out to be quite minimal.
Sure, the Model 3 needs no oil changes, which in theory should save us significant cost. However, the Model 3's requirement that we lubricate the brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles—something specified for areas that use road salt in the winter months—has cost nearly as much, totaling $432 for three such services thus far, which often also include a tire rotation. Although that's less than the $539 we spent on maintenance for our BMW M340i or the $728 for our Kia Telluride, that savings works out to between $6 and $15 a month over the course of our nearly two years of ownership, which would be barely noticeable in an owner's budget.


VIEW PHOTOS

MICHAEL SIMARICAR AND DRIVER
MORE ON THE MODEL 3

Tesla Model 3 Gets Design Changes, Increased Range

Our Model 3 is Cheap if You Avoid Supercharging

Although not included in our official tally of regular maintenance or normal wear, we've had some pricey fixes as well. For example, a stone chip in the glass roof set us back $1200 for a new one, and we paid $1100 for a new windshield for the same reason. And, since Tesla owns all of its service centers and maintains tight control over its parts, there are fewer options to shop around for service in cases like these than for most other cars.
By 30,000 miles, the original Michelin Primacy MXM4 tires were shot. We often get twice as many miles on all-season tires, but rapid tire wear is something that's a common topic on Model 3 owner's forums. At least part of the issue is that the Tesla version of these tires start with 1.5 32nds of an inch less tread depth than the off-the-shelf MXM4s. Although it might not sound like much, that's 20 percent less usable tread depth.
VIEW PHOTOS

MICHAEL SIMARICAR AND DRIVER

We have just replaced those with the other factory Model 3 fitment, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 summer tires, and we look forward to seeing how much these might improve braking and cornering performance during our final test session at 40,000 miles. A side benefit is that the summer tires were no more expensive than the all-seasons, but a still substantial $1157 has been added to our normal wear tally.
Our consumption and efficiency figures have trended back up in the warmer spring and summer months, topping 100 MPGe for three months running, which has bumped our overall average by one to 85 MPGe. Although we haven't strayed too far from our little corner of the Midwest, we've still managed to accumulate as many as 3500 miles in a month, a testament to Tesla's leadership in DC fast charging. That was one of the clearest takeaways from our recent EV 1000 rally, where the three Teslas swept the podium, with zero issues of nonfunctioning or occupied chargers that many other teams encountered.
That means it hasn't been difficult to put miles on our Model 3, even if the savings in maintenance costs has been minimal.
VIEW PHOTOS

MICHAEL SIMARICAR AND DRIVER
Months in Fleet: 20 months Current Mileage: 35,984 miles
Average Fuel Economy: 85 MPGe
Battery Capacity: 75.0 kWh Observed Fuel Range: 230 miles
Service: $432 Normal Wear: $1159 Repair:$0
Damage and Destruction: $2400

 

[Dawizman]

So the current 12-charger installations have fully rated 3MW utility supply?

Why not? I work on SAGD D well pads running similarly sized services on each pad.

 

[Stg2Suby]

I'm just trying to point out that a 12 x 250kW charging station (3MW potential total load) would likely not use a 3MW service. More like 1.2MW based on the Wisconsin station 42% demand factor design. Anyways its neither here nor there, didn't intend to de-rail the thread.

 

[Cdnfireman]

The 250kw v3 will be turned up to 300kw soon so it wouldn’t surprise me.

Multiple station charging sites at 250 or 300kw actual per charger are never gonna happen. The electric grid plain and simple can’t sustain that size of a load. It’s all a scam foisted on the gullible to sell cars. People will pull up thinking they’re gonna charge their close to dead battery and find that it’s gonna take way longer than advertised. Research the parameters necessary to fast charge a Tesla battery at 250kw, and the conditions necessary from the power grid to supply the charging stations. Reality is much different than the Tesla propaganda.

I'm just trying to point out that a 12 x 250kW charging station (3MW potential total load) would likely not use a 3MW service. More like 1.2MW based on the Wisconsin station 42% demand factor design. Anyways its neither here nor there, didn't intend to de-rail the thread.

As soon as you start applying a demand factor, the ability to charge all stations at the rated output stops. 1.2Mw/250kw= less than 5 stations at rated output. Not 12.

 

[Cdnfireman]

Why not? I work on SAGD D well pads running similarly sized services on each pad.

Huge difference in the electrical service supplying those pads in a rural area.

 

[Stg2Suby]

As soon as you start applying a demand factor, the ability to charge all stations at the rated output stops. 1.2Mw/250kw= less than 5 stations at rated output. Not 12.

Exactly, thanks. And Tesla has a challenge in applying appropriate demand factors for their stations. Installation cost vs. potentially pissing off customers with slow charging during "peak" fully utilized situations like the lineups pictured in Hope. Conventional gas stations don't have the same problem.

 

[Cdnfireman]

Exactly, thanks. And Tesla has a challenge in applying appropriate demand factors for their stations. Installation cost vs. potentially pissing off customers with slow charging during "peak" fully utilized situations like the lineups pictured in Hope. Conventional gas stations don't have the same problem.

Gotcha…..as usual, reality is totally different than what the green energy promoters advertise….

 

[Dawizman]

I don't know much about the superchargers. Are they using any local storage to boost output during periods of high demand without exceeding available utility input?

 

[Couch]

Our Tesla Model 3 Hasn't Delivered Big Savings in Maintenance Costs​

We've also spent serious money on windshield, roof, and tire replacement.

BY DAVE VANDERWERP
JUL 29, 2021

VIEW PHOTOS

MICHAEL SIMARICAR AND DRIVER

30,000-Mile Update​

One of the pitches we hear often on the switch to EV ownership is that electric vehicles are cheaper to maintain. But, as we close in on 40,000 miles in a Tesla Model 3, the actual savings in service costs is turning out to be quite minimal.
Sure, the Model 3 needs no oil changes, which in theory should save us significant cost. However, the Model 3's requirement that we lubricate the brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles—something specified for areas that use road salt in the winter months—has cost nearly as much, totaling $432 for three such services thus far, which often also include a tire rotation. Although that's less than the $539 we spent on maintenance for our BMW M340i or the $728 for our Kia Telluride, that savings works out to between $6 and $15 a month over the course of our nearly two years of ownership, which would be barely noticeable in an owner's budget.


VIEW PHOTOS

MICHAEL SIMARICAR AND DRIVER
MORE ON THE MODEL 3

Tesla Model 3 Gets Design Changes, Increased Range

Our Model 3 is Cheap if You Avoid Supercharging

Although not included in our official tally of regular maintenance or normal wear, we've had some pricey fixes as well. For example, a stone chip in the glass roof set us back $1200 for a new one, and we paid $1100 for a new windshield for the same reason. And, since Tesla owns all of its service centers and maintains tight control over its parts, there are fewer options to shop around for service in cases like these than for most other cars.
By 30,000 miles, the original Michelin Primacy MXM4 tires were shot. We often get twice as many miles on all-season tires, but rapid tire wear is something that's a common topic on Model 3 owner's forums. At least part of the issue is that the Tesla version of these tires start with 1.5 32nds of an inch less tread depth than the off-the-shelf MXM4s. Although it might not sound like much, that's 20 percent less usable tread depth.
VIEW PHOTOS

MICHAEL SIMARICAR AND DRIVER

We have just replaced those with the other factory Model 3 fitment, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 summer tires, and we look forward to seeing how much these might improve braking and cornering performance during our final test session at 40,000 miles. A side benefit is that the summer tires were no more expensive than the all-seasons, but a still substantial $1157 has been added to our normal wear tally.
Our consumption and efficiency figures have trended back up in the warmer spring and summer months, topping 100 MPGe for three months running, which has bumped our overall average by one to 85 MPGe. Although we haven't strayed too far from our little corner of the Midwest, we've still managed to accumulate as many as 3500 miles in a month, a testament to Tesla's leadership in DC fast charging. That was one of the clearest takeaways from our recent EV 1000 rally, where the three Teslas swept the podium, with zero issues of nonfunctioning or occupied chargers that many other teams encountered.
That means it hasn't been difficult to put miles on our Model 3, even if the savings in maintenance costs has been minimal.
VIEW PHOTOS

MICHAEL SIMARICAR AND DRIVER
Months in Fleet: 20 months Current Mileage: 35,984 miles
Average Fuel Economy: 85 MPGe
Battery Capacity: 75.0 kWh Observed Fuel Range: 230 miles
Service: $432 Normal Wear: $1159 Repair:$0
Damage and Destruction: $2400

Lots of crap in this bit .....30,000 miles on all seasons and he complains ...most all seasons are lucky to get 30k in km not to talk of miles ...chipped glass - you can replace or repair - last chip repair I had done was $50 ....

I appreciate the honest comparison between both - other than the drive train any other maintenance should be similar for comparable vehicles driven on same roads in similar manner ....
EVs have benefits as do Ice's ... difference in $$ is getting less in automotive sector - most likely the next vehicle will be some version of an ev .....

but $$$$ is still out to lunch for other sectors (marine / off-road / service) ....
Priced marine conversion to hybrid and I could repower with conventional diesel system 5 times over - would never see enough savings to justify going to hybrid ...full on electric was significantly more and nowhere in the ball park!

 

[jhurkot]

 

[lilduke]

I'm not saying I like the structure only this is the way it is. I totally agree with you that everybody should be treated equally and no one should get a free ride. Currently if you own a EV you are taking advantage of a tax loop hole. Most people on here would reduce their tax if they could even if they knew others would have to pay more because of it. Currently it is legal to do so and we all have to accept it or if passionate enough, work to change it.

Why would anyone want more tax on anything?

Jealous of EV owner perks, then get an EV

 

[jhurkot]

Why would anyone want more tax on anything?

Jealous of EV owner perks, then get an EV

No one should be jealous of EV. I recently did a trip to Edmonton and it took me 2 days to get there and 2 days to get back. 500km each way. It was a 4 day trip so I had to turn around immediately on arrival. I saved a ton of money on gas and evaded road taxes so it was still worth it.

 

[acesup800]

No one should be jealous of EV. I recently did a trip to Edmonton and it took me 2 days to get there and 2 days to get back. 500km each way. It was a 4 day trip so I had to turn around immediately on arrival. I saved a ton of money on gas and evaded road taxes so it was still worth it.

I would rather pay the road taxes.....

 

[LennyR]

I would rather pay the road taxes.....

I’d rather the EV owners pay road taxes same as IC owners.