missing sledders in revelstoke

[sled-fiend]

Should have read through the thread before I copied and pasted my snowest post. Once again thanks for all the concern and hats off to the revelstoke sar! Fwiw their spot messanger was not working either today. When we met them on the trail out we notified them that we had been sending out spot messages all night. They tried sending msgs today and had no luck on the recieving end. It was not user or reciever error. Fwiw the original poster was mistaken in saying all we had was cell phones. We had 2 gps units. As well as 2 frs radios and were on/standing by channel 4-0 with no response. We both had abs/snowpulse bags, beacons, full survival gear so we were well equipped for the scenario. I'll be ordering an iridium satelite phone so I can have conformation of communication. One thing I will stress is that all of your sledding friends significant others have means of contacting each other. We failed in that department which could of really helped the ones left back at home. Have a great safe sledding season and learn from our mistakes

 

[CATPRIDE]

Good to hear your ok, by the way does anybody know where to buy a sat phone.

 

[Captain-sno]

The globalstar satellite does handle both phone and spot. We all know they have had issues with the sat phones, but they have insisted that the spot works off different transponders (only one way communication) and was immune to the problems.

I have tested mine (the first one bought in Calgary before they where advertised- I read a "new product to be launched" review and contacted their head office) and it has worked without a glitch both at home and on the mountain. It has tracked my day and sent "ok messages without fail.

All that being said. I believe SPOT owes these guys....and the rest of us customers...an explanation as to what went wrong. If Revy SAR (excellent work guys!!!!) can verify theirs did not work either, we better get a good reponse or sales are in trouble. Not to mention non-renewals. They are here at the show in Calgary Saturday and Sunday...I met the western Canada Manager last year and I will put him on the hot "spot" no pun intended, to give us an answer.

Glad you guys are ok.....sounds like you had it together!

 

[bhowes]

have not turned my spot on since march going to turn it on right now and check it out

 

[mcridge]

Glad to hear everyone was okay.
But to say that Spot owes everyone an explanation is a bit over the top. I have a Spot and do use it. It does work. However, you need a clear view of the sky.....hopefully you're up high already (helps) and it's not puking snow! Spot even makes it clear that the better your view of the sky....the better the unit works. I've sent numerous messages to my wife too tell her that I'm okay. I do also tell her that she may not get a message because of weather. So don't rely on it 100%!
As for Sat phones well i don't know about new technology but I lived on the Icefields Parkway north of Lake Louise for four years with only a Sat phone. There were lots of times it didn't work and i'd have to try again later.

To sum it up, DON'T rely on pieces of technology to save your ass. They are an extra tool that MAY be of help if needed. Use your own common sense. There are lots of sledders who leave the common sense at home.
How many sledders can spend a night out in the mountains if needed without freezing their butts off? How many guys actually carry any basic survival gear....matches, extra food, water, emergency blanket, extra clothing, wax paper(works wonders for getting fires going with wet wood), first aid kit. Not too many of us! We just ride our sleds out 50 km away from civilization and always hope for the best. Then someone gets seriously injured, lost, or their sled breaks down and we're screwed!

Sorry to rant on but someone had to say it. Glad too hear this one turned out well.

 

[bhowes]

ok guys mine not working either no message sent to phone or emal

WTF we paid for this service and insurance up front??????

 

[polarice]

so as long as every one is ok the dealer should be getting a bill for not assembling a sled properly

 

[skibeadoo]

Sledders are OK...this was posted on snowest about an hour ago by one of the riders:


Thanks revelstoke sar

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanx for the concern, we had a mechanical issue with my new m8. Fawken dealer didn't install washers on the upper or lower shock mounts. The first float shock fell into the shock tower and I lost my steering. We had to disassamble the ski mounts (to steal washers) and remove both front shocks. By the time we had the repair completed we had lost all visibility. We back tracked the gps tracking to the glacier lodge cabin and bunked down in there. I was sending "we are ok" from my Spot messenger to my girlfriend and sledding partner. None of the transmssions were received. We starting sending out the messages from approx 6pm and through out the night. Revelstoke search and rescue also tried sending spot transmissions today as well with noone recieving the messages either. My advice is don't rely on spot and get a sat phone. We got up this morning and followed our gps tracks back to the frisby cabin. We were heading back to the truck and met up with revelstoke SARS. Big thanks to those guys for coming out! Snow conditions were great and woke up to 2ft of fresh up top. I'll post pics when I get home as I am posting this from my phone.

Glad to hear that everyone is ok. Sat phones use the same towers as the spot. At lease with sat phone you will be able to tell if the tranmission goes through by talking to a warm body. I use a ACR Micorfix PLB.

 

[bhowes]

sorry to rant guys but am prepared and have spent the night out on more than one occasion due to mechanical or operator error bought the spot because i did not want to put my wife ,or sister or mother trough that hell again not fair to your loved ones guys when sh * t happens and they dont know if your alive or dead

if there is a spot rep on this site anty up and give us an explanation

just my 2 cents
sorry guys and gals

 

[Captain-sno]

Glad to hear everyone was okay.
But to say that Spot owes everyone an explanation is a bit over the top.

Well...maybe Im just getting old....I use to fly for a living...hence the Captain so I know GPS well...
I carry extra fuel, gps, frs/gmrs, fire starter, spot, emergency blanket, saws, flash light, extra batteries, extra food and water, wind proof lighter, beacon, shovel, ABS, first aid kit, hand and foot warming pads, extra gloves/balaclava, cell phone, 12 volt on sled to charge, ect ect ect.... things still happen for sure

Have you seen spots advertising? Do you know how they are marketing the unit? We pay for a service, if this unit, SAR's unit, and possibly others are not working properly, then in my opinion (and I'm sure SAR know how to test the unit) they owe an explanation... Why it failed...maybe it did not see the sky...maybe it was snowing.... but your right on one thing....don't rely on one thing and have a back up to a back up!

But yes, I am getting old.............

 

[Dobir]

sorry to rant guys but am prepared and have spent the night out on more than one occasion due to mechanical or operator error bought the spot because i did not want to put my wife ,or sister or mother trough that hell again not fair to your loved ones guys when sh * t happens and they dont know if your alive or dead

if there is a spot rep on this site anty up and give us an explanation

just my 2 cents
sorry guys and gals

I want an explanation too..I mainly bought the spot for Revy riding and for the benifit of anyone I come across that needs help...

 

[pipes]

I want an explanation too..I mainly bought the spot for Revy riding and for the benifit of anyone I come across that needs help...

Good to hear that they are OK. Too bad that it had that it turned out the way it did. Mechanical problems as well as communication problems.

I don't know what the answer is as to ensuring communications with electronic devices. One sure thing is that if you leave a game plan in the sign out log that a lot of places have at their front desks maybe, just maybe this would have come out better.

 

[f150truck]

Good to here everyone is ok.

I have a Spot, use it skidooing, quadding, about 3/4 of the time the message comes through, I carry it my handlebar bag. This is what I try to do.

Send OK message as soon as arriving at unload site as you get geared up then you can watch it to be sure it is working and the truck location is marked. And send ok messages everytime we take a break.

By sending messages from different locations at different times the chances of some getting through should be higher.

This may have helped if any of the messages got through during the day, at least would know what mountain they started on.

 

[bigdog67]

I've just emailed the manufacture of SPOT, asking for an explanation.I'll keep this thread posted as to what they say.

 

[skibeadoo]

The spot reps will be at the sled show in Calgary this weekend as they were in Edmonton. With acting on the same sats as the sat phones everyone knows that they do not work at certain times of the day and how much cloud cover there is. Position of yourself in relation to the position of the sats. It is not a fool proof system that everyone thinks it is. Have fun with that.

 

[Newfie1]

Good Luck hope all is found in good Health.

 

[niloc99]

Thanks Guys. You made my decision an easy one now.

 

[modsledr]

Just like any GPS device, you need a clear view of the sky.

If they tried to use the Spot inside of the cabin, it probably wouldn't work. Same if there was a storm overhead.

Like others have mentioned...before heading up, make sure someone knows where you are heading and when you plan to return.

 

[Captain-sno]

The spot reps will be at the sled show in Calgary this weekend as they were in Edmonton. With acting on the same sats as the sat phones everyone knows that they do not work at certain times of the day and how much cloud cover there is. Position of yourself in relation to the position of the sats. It is not a fool proof system that everyone thinks it is. Have fun with that.

I don't want to be hard on you...but if you read my earlier post, You will see that the globalstar satellites do indeed have problems as you mention. It has nothing....nothing...to do with cloud cover. It is a transponder malfunction issue with the satellite. The satellites are going to be replaced in time. The sat phones use different transponders than the spot as they need 2 way communication for the phone part.(duplex vs simplex data transmission) The satellites are not in geo-stationary orbit (the clarke belt) so when the satellites that have the malfunctioning transponders are overhead, the sat phones have outages. (not all of globalstar satellites have transponder issues and that is why the phone works when the good ones are over head, or more correctly when the footprint is covering western Canada) The Spot unit uses 2 sets of satellites. The GPS satellites (these are not malfunctioning and are US military owned) for position information, and the globalstar sats for communication. These are the ones that recieve the signal from the spot unit and relay it to the communication center.

The spot uses different transponders(simplex) on the same birds (satellites)as the sat phones(duplex) and are supposed to be immune to the issue that is affecting the sat phones. The spot is a "one way" device and global has insisted that the malfunctioning transponders have no effect on its operation.This is well documented and the reason that they decided to go ahead with the launch of the spot when they did. If the spot does not get gps info, it still sends an ok, help, or 911 with out the positional info.

Its really a degradation in the performance of the solid-state power amplifiers of the S-band communications antenna, (not a simple transponder explanation) for the sat phones, but whatever........

Obviously, something is an issue, seeing the sky (or lack) is a possibility but Revy SAR would not test unless they had a clear shot.

An email to Spot is great, and I know I will speak to them at the Show. So somewhere along the way, we will get an answer.

*********************EDITED NOVEMBER 11th To correct an error *****************************************************

****this statement is not 100% accurate***** If the spot does not get gps info, it still sends an ok, help, or 911 with out the positional info.
****It will not send out an "OK" message without GPS info....It will send out a help or 911 without GPS info as my original statement above******

Verified this with SPOT!

 

[scotts]

This is interesting, i have spot fail me a couple of times as well,by not sending out my "ok" messages. I think its time to pick up an iridium for this year