major oil spill into the red deer river

[DaveB]

personnally, i have and gas and wood heat, sure don't like to see money go up the chimmney as they say. hehe

I just invite over Imdooin and Stompin Tom every few days...heats the place right up with hot air.

 

[imdoo'n]

Refinery within 10 miles of my home as the crow flies. When questioned about fuel prices, there response is "dont talk to us, the price is set in Calgary"

there base price yes, that we can't get around, as only they know the cost of production, and it will be different in every area. with taxes etc and up front cost may be way more. but to say the tax info is irrelevant is funny.

 

[imdoo'n]

I just invite over Imdooin and Stompin Tom every few days...heats the place right up with hot air.

quit stirrin the pot dave, or we'll come over

 

[eclipse1966]

maybe AB oil is not "as" important to the Canadian economy that many believe it is in terms of GDP (read below). At the end of the day, I am glad Canada has such a strong position in energy and can only benefit our country for generations to come. But we cant forgot that energy is not the only thing we have and without it we are all doomed and our lifestyle will dramatically change which, some of you have indicated. After all, it wasn't that many years ago that the AB oil industry was irrelevant and many from AB were flocking to BC for jobs. The younger generation wont remember that. Anyway, as a country we are the envy by many countries due to the wealth we have not only in natural resources, but in economic power and more importantly brain power from research in science and medicine. So, lets use our primary resource...... our brain....... and make the right decision to get this oil to market without jeopardizing everything. If it is a pipe line so be it but NO shortcuts in the name of the bottom line. I see both side of the arguments with lots of emotions and valid points. But in the end, I personally dont want our province to be sold out for the sake of profits and easiest solution. Just my 2 cents worth

 

[snoboy]

maybe AB oil is not "as" important to the Canadian economy that many believe it is in terms of GDP (read below). At the end of the day, I am glad Canada has such a strong position in energy and can only benefit our country for generations to come. But we cant forgot that energy is not the only thing we have and without it we are all doomed and our lifestyle will dramatically change which, some of you have indicated. After all, it wasn't that many years ago that the AB oil industry was irrelevant and many from AB were flocking to BC for jobs. The younger generation wont remember that. Anyway, as a country we are the envy by many countries due to the wealth we have not only in natural resources, but in economic power and more importantly brain power from research in science and medicine. So, lets use our primary resource...... our brain....... and make the right decision to get this oil to market without jeopardizing everything. If it is a pipe line so be it but NO shortcuts in the name of the bottom line. I see both side of the arguments with lots of emotions and valid points. But in the end, I personally dont want our province to be sold out for the sake of profits and easiest solution. Just my 2 cents worth

Canadian GDP by industry and Canadian imports and exports

There are definitely a lot of different factors in play. 5% of GDP, 25% of exports. Oil & gas is both not as big as some think and a lot bigger than some think at the same time. Consumer spending drives our economy in terms of GDP, but that's directly impacted by our exploitation of the resources. If we weren't exporting oil and were forced to buy on the open market or pay the true cost of our internal production, would our other industries be able to remain competitive while maintaining wages and the cost of our social programs? That's the hard part of intepreting economic data, none of the numbers can be looked at in a vacuum and it's almost impossible to fully quantify the ripple effects.
I am old enough to remember Alberta's booms and busts, but the world has changed quite a bit in the meantime so circumstances are different today than they were in the early 80's, for example. At that time we were 100% at the whim of the US and the American oil industry, now we have the opportunity to expand into other markets and try to smooth out the peaks and valleys. Fuels costs worldwide, on average, are steadily climbing. Being such a vast, empty & somewhat isolated country means that the cost of fuels have a huge impact on every aspect of our life.

It's just not as simple as saying "I pay 7 cents more for a litre of gas than an Albertan, so I'm obviously not getting any benefit from the industry.", but the actual impact of losing those exports is certainly open to debate. World history does indicate that it wouldn't end up as a positive, though. And that's without even starting to factor in political implications.

 

[Polarblu]

now is that all of them, sure used to see a lot on propane , and firewood on the way by.

Over 80 percent of homes are heated with natural gas, or at least are hooked up to a natural gas line. I prefer pellets but still have 2 natural gas furnaces.

 

[Polarblu]

seems like the pipeline blow outs that have happened since this thread got started have really slowed down the Alberta side of the debate!?? Now Natural gas has been moved to the "clean fuel" section as far as creating electricity, BC has made another step forward towards exporting a product that we have a glut of. Next i personaly want to see the Site C dam get started cause its right out my back door. And for those that think that the dam isnt going BC hydro just spent Millions on the laydown yard a 1/2 mile away from my place and i got the card in the mail stating what they are up to.

 

[DRD]

I hope you aren't putting to much faith in Apache and their Shale find.
There are currently 11 US LNG terminals that are looking at changing operations to an export terminal, roughly 14 Bcf/d will be dumped into the global gas market. Your 17 dollar gas will be a stakeholders wet dream.

 

[Polarblu]

I hope you aren't putting to much faith in Apache and their Shale find.
There are currently 11 US LNG terminals that are looking at changing operations to an export terminal, roughly 14 Bcf/d will be dumped into the global gas market. Your 17 dollar gas will be a stakeholders wet dream.

The 17 is a high factor just for the debate and its what it is selling for overseas, we get 8-12. If we hit 7 here the infrastructure build will be massive. These companies make decent money @ 3 bucks!!! Apache is , well we will see, looks good on paper, and the horn river basin is still there as back-up. Back to the original point. The writing is on the wall with these last pipeline ruptures.

 

[DRD]

No 17 dollar gas in Europe:

Kitimat is minimum 5yrs away, if it's viable. : No relief for natural gas producers as Apache’s Kitimat plant delayed | Natural Gas | Energy | News | Financial Post

Only hope is Asia, everyone wants to cash in now: Japan pushes Asia gas price close to high - FT.com

Enbridge does look like a bunch of idiots in the news today though, can't argue that fact to hard.

 

[DRD]

No 17 dollar gas in Europe:

Kitimat is minimum 5yrs away, if it's viable. : No relief for natural gas producers as Apache’s Kitimat plant delayed | Natural Gas | Energy | News | Financial Post

Only hope is Asia, everyone wants to cash in now: Japan pushes Asia gas price close to high - FT.com

Enbridge does look like a bunch of idiots in the news today though, can't argue that fact to hard.

 

[Polarblu]

No 17 dollar gas in Europe:

Kitimat is minimum 5yrs away, if it's viable. : No relief for natural gas producers as Apache’s Kitimat plant delayed | Natural Gas | Energy | News | Financial Post

Only hope is Asia, everyone wants to cash in now: Japan pushes Asia gas price close to high - FT.com

Enbridge does look like a bunch of idiots in the news today though, can't argue that fact to hard.

Gr

Great facts to back up BC's push. Mine were a bit tainted but that happens. Thank you DRD

 

[Pinner]

Hopefully these pipeline companies will change their ways.

Enbridge pipeline controllers in Edmonton ignored repeated leak warnings for 17 hours before shutting down a pipeline that poured 20,000 barrels of oil into the Kalamazoo River in Michigan in July 2010, says a report from the U. S. National Transportation Safety Board.

Read this

 

[Badass69]

Hopefully these pipeline companies will change their ways.




Read this

That can be generalized to any operations in any industry anywhere. The first thing an operator does when he gets an alarm that won't clear is blame the instrumentation, saying it has failed and ignores it. I deal with this exact mentality day in and day out.

Casing failures as an example of this. An operator will tell me the pressure transmitter on his well is continually dropping off as he pressures the well up. Well oddly enough there is a mechanical gauge right beside the transmitter hooked on the same line. My response is always " What does the manual gauge read" to the reply of " The same thing as the transmitter"....... Uh huh.... So the transmitter must be bad then, yeesh. If the tubing or piping or even device itself isn't leaking....... where is the pressure going exactly..... Lol. I can shut the valving in on the transmitter and make it hold pressure if that's what you want........ But maybe you should shut the well in and get a service rig out there.....

Ocassionally monitoring and control equipment does fail..... but not nearly in the frequency of operator error.... If something rings in you are to go investigate, not just ignore..... that is point of an operator. I may as well replace you with a control system that calls me out if you can't even do the basics of your job title.

Operations routinely will shelve nuisance alarms as they get annoying...... but never tell maintenance about them for weeks at a time. Smart.......

So does it really surprise me operations will continually try and restart the pumps and reopen the ESD's on a pipeline that has shut in for a rupture without looking at the line first??????...... Nope, not a bit. Must be that damn unreliable pressure transmitter that probably has never failed once in the entire time that operator has been on the panel.....

It's a mentality issue, regardless of training or anything else. It can be perpetuated by lazy maintenance guys.... but that be the case the maintenance guys should be removed and replaced by those willing to do their job.

I think this still runs full circle back to my original comments about perfection.

 

[Polarblu]

That can be generalized to any operations in any industry anywhere. The first thing an operator does when he gets an alarm that won't clear is blame the instrumentation, saying it has failed and ignores it. I deal with this exact mentality day in and day out.

Casing failures as an example of this. An operator will tell me the pressure transmitter on his well is continually dropping off as he pressures the well up. Well oddly enough there is a mechanical gauge right beside the transmitter hooked on the same line. My response is always " What does the manual gauge read" to the reply of " The same thing as the transmitter"....... Uh huh.... So the transmitter must be bad then, yeesh. If the tubing or piping or even device itself isn't leaking....... where is the pressure going exactly..... Lol. I can shut the valving in on the transmitter and make it hold pressure if that's what you want........ But maybe you should shut the well in and get a service rig out there.....

Ocassionally monitoring and control equipment does fail..... but not nearly in the frequency of operator error.... If something rings in you are to go investigate, not just ignore..... that is point of an operator. I may as well replace you with a control system that calls me out if you can't even do the basics of your job title.

Operations routinely will shelve nuisance alarms as they get annoying...... but never tell maintenance about them for weeks at a time. Smart.......

So does it really surprise me operations will continually try and restart the pumps and reopen the ESD's on a pipeline that has shut in for a rupture without looking at the line first??????...... Nope, not a bit. Must be that damn unreliable pressure transmitter that probably has never failed once in the entire time that operator has been on the panel.....

It's a mentality issue, regardless of training or anything else. It can be perpetuated by lazy maintenance guys.... but that be the case the maintenance guys should be removed and replaced by those willing to do their job.

I think this still runs full circle back to my original comments about perfection.

So in your opinion you agree that a pipeline across BC with these idiots would be a F-up also? I really cant see them hiring any talented people to watch a pipe.....

 

[Badass69]

You already have multiple pipelines across BC..... I really don't care what company owns it, blaiming one company is not an answer. Every company has just as much of a chance of having leaks or operator error. Welcome to reality.

 

[rzrgade]

Once all you BC guys get the pipelines fixed up ,PLEASE go back and work on the pulp and paper mills..........As they stink like chit,ruin your pristine enviroment,pollute your water sources,decimate your forrests,etc etc .
PLUS, they really don`t make enough money to be worthwhile in terms of helping Alberta or Canada for that matter...........

 

[sumx54]

...and the quality of your so called "BC bud" is sliding downhill fast.

 

[Polarblu]

You already have multiple pipelines across BC..... I really don't care what company owns it, blaiming one company is not an answer. Every company has just as much of a chance of having leaks or operator error. Welcome to reality.

In regards to Enbridge do you feel comfortable if they run an operation in your back yard? Yes we have thousands of miles of pipe in the ground and have had ruptures, but, they are not close our fishing grounds. The rupture in the pine pass on the pine river was a wake-up call for us. That was a nightmare.

 

[Badass69]

.......