Is man made climate change real?

[X-it]

Re: Is man' made climate change real?

That is a small array and honestly I don't think Nelson is the greatest location if you're trying to maximize the ROI. I would be absolutely shocked if it didn't pay for itself in 15-20 years though.

Well i know for sure you will never check into weather it pays for itself or not. Or what it takes to put that power into the grid and clean it up. Or what it takes to make the panels and get rid of them. Fairytales is where it is at.

 

[whoDEANie]

Re: Is man' made climate change real?

That is a small array and honestly I don't think Nelson is the greatest location if you're trying to maximize the ROI. I would be absolutely shocked if it didn't pay for itself in 15-20 years though.

But panels only last for about 20 years and inverters and batteries need replacement every 5-10 years. Apparently panel performance degrades about 1% per year too, so even if they are still good after 20 years, they will only operate at 80% of their original capacity.

 

[LennyR]

Re: Is man' made climate change real?

The bitter truth come out in Nelson-

Wow ! Makes you wonder about how much misinformation and data manipulation exists in so many other projects.

 

[Teth-Air]

Re: Is man' made climate change real?

Lets say that all this climate change is indeed a hoax. They bamboozled the dumbest 80% of the population into believing it.
The year is 2024 and you are building a power plant. It is cheaper to build a solar or wind farm than it is to build a gas plant for the same MWh produced annually.
What do you do?

Give the people what they want. What made sense in the past, most convenient, most versatile, easy to store, mobility friendly fossil fuels is no longer going to be what makes most sense in the future. It will be not which is cheaper to build but rather what people will pay more for is what will then make sense. The oil industry better start changing their tune. How about this marketing strategy:

"All our fuel is made with 100% Organic feed stock." or "100% renewable fossil fuel" (just takes a while)

We are forgetting that solar, wind, hydro power, and even fossil fuel are all derived from solar. We don't create anything here we just harness what has been thrown at us. I agree solar and wind are there for the taking but really suck when it comes to storing the energy. Hydro is a good balance of both but just try and build a dam these days and see what kind of opposition you get. Fossil fuel releases carbon but is great on all other fronts. So is it easier to clean up fossil fuels or store electricity? Hydrogen, maybe.

 

[sledn]

Re: Is man' made climate change real?

If this does not cost the tax payer anything-great. Don't skip all the real costs and penalize natural gas (damn near free because we can't export it) with taxes and other fees so this looks price competitive (Like Ontario). But most solar in Alberta gives power about 10% of the year. We need just as much power when it is night ,cloudy ,raining and snowing. So this will only serve these 100,000 homes about 10% of the year. They seem to brush these facts over. I don't believe for a second that we the tax payer wont be on the hook for millions in fees every year. We should be selling massive amounts of clean natural gas produced power (non subsidized )to all our neighbors.

400 MW, 100,000 homes. No government subsidies.

https://globalnews.ca/video/rd/05cc2c97

 

[jhurkot]

Re: Is man' made climate change real?

Well i know for sure you will never check into weather it pays for itself or not. Or what it takes to put that power into the grid and clean it up. Or what it takes to make the panels and get rid of them. Fairytales is where it is at.

Sure I will. What do you mean by "what it takes to put that power into the grid"? I don't understand that.
As far as what it takes to make them, after the first 3 years the module has generated enough electricity to cover the energy cost of its production.


So it looks like the Nelson solar project total was was $360k. If it's a 60KW install that is a cost of $6/KW which is pretty high. The west side of the array is blocked off by a bunch of tall trees. The location sucks. So at an average price of $0.10-0.12 per kWh it will take 3million kWh to pay for. In 2018 it generated 64881 kWh.
So yeah, probably was a waste. When you have a high cost install and lower output you are kind of shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[X-it]

Re: Is man' made climate change real?

Wow ! Makes you wonder about how much misinformation and data manipulation exists in so many other projects.

Oh that is not all of the misinformation LennyR, the solar plants are such an embarrassment they have to hire a full time position to make them put out a little more power. Here is the fancy new title for that position. So they can keep hiding the true cost of the solar gardens.

https://www.nelsonstar.com/news/nelson-to-hire-climate-change-co-ordinator/

 

[X-it]

Re: Is man' made climate change real?

Sure I will. What do you mean by "what it takes to put that power into the grid"? I don't understand that.
As far as what it takes to make them, after the first 3 years the module has generated enough electricity to cover the energy cost of its production.


So it looks like the Nelson solar project total was was $360k. If it's a 60KW install that is a cost of $6/KW which is pretty high. The west side of the array is blocked off by a bunch of tall trees. The location sucks. So at an average price of $0.10-0.12 per kWh it will take 3million kWh to pay for. In 2018 it generated 64881 kWh.
So yeah, probably was a waste. When you have a high cost install and lower output you are kind of shooting yourself in the foot.

Reread whoDEANies post number 567 and fully digest that.

 

[jhurkot]

Re: Is man' made climate change real?

If this does not cost the tax payer anything-great. Don't skip all the real costs and penalize natural gas (damn near free because we can't export it) with taxes and other fees so this looks price competitive (Like Ontario). But most solar in Alberta gives power about 10% of the year. We need just as much power when it is night ,cloudy ,raining and snowing. So this will only serve these 100,000 homes about 10% of the year. They seem to brush these facts over. I don't believe for a second that we the tax payer wont be on the hook for millions in fees every year. We should be selling massive amounts of clean natural gas produced power (non subsidized )to all our neighbors.

400 MW, 100,000 homes. No government subsidies.

https://globalnews.ca/video/rd/05cc...r/wind/renewable production is not available.

 

[tejay]

Re: Is man' made climate change real?

Ah yes a climate change coordinator so they can have permanent protests on city hall steps. So sick of the fear mongering and placing children front and Center saying they are leading the charge. Ya right after their “climate change lessons” in school they can take the rest of the day off and colour signs and “protest” at city hall. Meanwhile mom and dad and school buses are delivering them in fossil fuel burning vehicles.

 

[sledn]

Re: Is man' made climate change real?

Lets say the average house uses 10,000 kWh or 10MWh.
100,000 homes using 10MWh = 1,000,000 MWh
If the solar farm produces 1,000,000 MWh then it does displace that amount of energy.

These are just made up numbers to illustrate a point.
Natural gas has the benefit of being able to run at any time so it would make sense to use it when solar/wind/renewable production is not available.

Our largest solar installation in Alberta at Brooks, is now putting out 1/15 of it's capacity at 9am. This is typical of most times I check.

 

[X-it]

Re: Is man' made climate change real?

And here is the prick behind the misinformation the drunken fluorescent light bulb pusher


https://davidsuzuki.org/story/nelson-bc-canadas-first-community-solar-garden/

 

[jhurkot]

Our largest solar installation in Alberta at Brooks, is now putting out 1/15 of it's capacity at 9am. This is typical of most times I check.

Ok but we know the suns intensity isn’t it’s highest at 9am. And it’s overcast.

 

[whoDEANie]

Re: Is man' made climate change real?

But panels only last for about 20 years and inverters and batteries need replacement every 5-10 years. Apparently panel performance degrades about 1% per year too, so even if they are still good after 20 years, they will only operate at 80% of their original capacity.

I forgot to mention that these things are full of chemicals like Cadmium Telluride, Copper Indium Gallium Diselenide, Silicone Tetrachloride, and Lead. That means they can't simply be disposed of in the landfill (not that we'd want to anyway) and the recycling process of these panels is far from trivial. It is estimated that we will have to deal with about 60 million tons of solar panel waste by 2050.

Not only is the recycling currently expensive, but the materials recovered are worth less than the cost to recover them. This never gets factored into the carbon footprint or the TCO when we are being sold on their virtues.

 

[lilduke]

Re: Is man' made climate change real?

I personally don't care where the power comes from, as long as it works when I need it. ie no month long black outs in the middle of February.

 

[Bnorth]

Ok but we know the suns intensity isn’t it’s highest at 9am. And it’s overcast.

Pretty useless to create power at 2pm on sunny days when you need it at 6pm no matter the weather.

 

[jhurkot]

Pretty useless to create power at 2pm on sunny days when you need it at 6pm no matter the weather.

It’s useless to generate power between 8am to 5pm? Aren’t those business hours? What time of the day does the air conditioner run?

Right now you can’t run a province on 100% solar energy. So if it’s less than 100% effective is it useless?

 

[X-it]

Fortunately you can go back on the nelson plant and look up the power produced anytime of the year and any hour you want. Excellent for those that want to separate fact from fiction. Unfortunate for the power people who have to make all these messes work.

 

[jhurkot]

Re: Is man' made climate change real?

I forgot to mention that these things are full of chemicals like Cadmium Telluride, Copper Indium Gallium Diselenide, Silicone Tetrachloride, and Lead. That means they can't simply be disposed of in the landfill (not that we'd want to anyway) and the recycling process of these panels is far from trivial. It is estimated that we will have to deal with about 60 million tons of solar panel waste by 2050.

Not only is the recycling currently expensive, but the materials recovered are worth less than the cost to recover them. This never gets factored into the carbon footprint or the TCO when we are being sold on their virtues.

It’s always easier to recycle material than it is to mine new material. And where will technology be 30 years from now?

 

[jhurkot]

Fortunately you can go back on the nelson plant and look up the power produced anytime of the year and any hour you want. Excellent for those that want to separate fact from fiction. Unfortunate for the power people who have to make all these messes work.

So every solar install in the world will be compared to Nelson from now until the end of time? Give me a break.