If you ride in BC please take this survey!

[MarkCos]

This is a bunch of dog****
What's next the Politicians to
And big payed sled organizers

the mountains are free

and suport the clubs that maintain ur sledding areas only

beat it!! Bcsf and Dave

 

[BLUE PLATE]

I very rarely ride club managed areas, haven't bought a year membership in a few years now. I prefer to not be with the flock of sheep, to many other good zones to ride that are not managed and have no people.

 

[rightsideup]

I very rarely ride club managed areas, haven't bought a year membership in a few years now. I prefer to not be with the flock of sheep, to many other good zones to ride that are not managed and have no people.

It would still be great for riders like you to fill out the survey though based on your data it gives the bcsf some backup that a rider like yourself is active as apparently one of the issues other interests lobbying government to take away area's is the low number of sled's that are presumed in running condition that are not in any organized riding what so every which you prove false by buying day passes occasionally.

 

[Lund]

I very rarely ride club managed areas, haven't bought a year membership in a few years now. I prefer to not be with the flock of sheep, to many other good zones to ride that are not managed and have no people.

With all honesty, i believe we will see an end to sledding free reign in BC and sooner then you think.

 

[ferniesnow]

With all honesty, i believe we will see an end to sledding free reign in BC and sooner then you think.

They have a hard time enforcing the big registration cash grab. You tell us how they will enforce that thought.

 

[BLUE PLATE]

It would still be great for riders like you to fill out the survey though based on your data it gives the bcsf some backup that a rider like yourself is active as apparently one of the issues other interests lobbying government to take away area's is the low number of sled's that are presumed in running condition that are not in any organized riding what so every which you prove false by buying day passes occasionally.

Survey has been filled out.

 

[geo]

I speak from experience from other sports Dave Norona so please don't give me your BS about "for the better good of all". Bin dere done dat. Here's how it really works.

The agenda for these coordinated user groups is not what it seems to be. It starts as "let's share" and ends with "you only get to ride here and here is how much it will cost". You sit at a table for free because you care but you sit with paid professionals who have a plan. That plan is not the same as yours but they don't really say that as you enjoy a glass of beer while they sip their wine after the initial get together.
75% of the people at the table want no access anywhere for motorized (anti anything with an engine people), wheeled (anti anything except walking people) or unregistered (here's some more cash to grab) lobbyists. Their funding is from organizations like Greenpeace, Vancouverites against pipelines, heli ski owner groups, remote guiding (lol) tour owners against anybody else in their area and of course, the government. They are paid to be there to control the outcome.
The other 25% are there with promises of less conflict initiated by these other groups thus control of their own. Never happens though because of the word "consensus".

They come to do their job of shutting out the people with interests different than their own. They have decades of experience and oodles of cash and time. It started with individual areas like Revy and Valemount, in the sleddin scene, and now they want the next step of "everywhere" because "look, everyone in this demographic of users has agreed".

Don't know how long you have been in the sport Dave but did you know that at one time not too long ago everyone rode for free in BC. A unique place in the world not just Canada. We took care of keeping trails open and cabins stocked with wood for free because it needed to be done.
Did you know that back then there was way more sledders, especially families of sledders. How is that grooming to a fancy cabin and charging an ever increasing fee at the bottom working out again?

You make a living posting purdy pictures of Dave Norona "free riding" in the hills. Think about that, the "free riding" you emulate, and how it came to be. Hint,,, it wasn't Burant. Do you see your children having the same opportunity?
After they corral us into one manageable group they will further restrict us with speed limits and stick to trails rules with helicopters dropping down to fine "abusers". Don't laugh. I got nailed in the 70's in California this way. It will all be done with the blessing of groups like BCSF to "civilize" the sport.

You are part of the "elite" Dave, that refuses to acknowledge your roots. The "roots" are the family days with a fire going and people getting stuck everywhere while experimenting with style and machine. God didn't invent the G4. Family days did with no organization or laws forcing them to pay to play "for the better good".
Bottom line, "fees" = more money= less people and "rules" = restrictions = less people.
If you wish to have the same job in a decade or for your children to experience the same limited freedom you have now,,, you should think about my POV.

 

[Lund]

Maybe many haven't really noticed but in British Columbia power sports are on the endangered list. This includes snowmobiles. Like it or not your either going to be part of the solution or will be the cause of losing the ability to enjoy. Bitch all you want, it is already in the works in many areas. Ask anyone that rides a dirt bike while they go camping, it is harder every year to find a place to ride freely without being registered and in most cases carrying liability. I can tell you it is nearly impossible in the lower mainland to ride a dirt bike without being in a riding area. This is also becoming fact in the Okanagan.

Expect the same for snowmobiling, restricted to only snowmobiling areas...

 

[Scotford]

Gotter done !!!

Thanks ....... Scotford

 

[LBZ]

So BCSF, I have a question for some clarification. What is the ultimate goal of the one pass for the province? Is this meant to replace the local membership fees charged by the individual clubs and will go towards individual club funding and this give you access to every trail up to the riding area no matter where in the province it is?

 

[MarkCos]

I speak from experience from other sports Dave Norona so please don't give me your BS about "for the better good of all". Bin dere done dat. Here's how it really works.

The agenda for these coordinated user groups is not what it seems to be. It starts as "let's share" and ends with "you only get to ride here and here is how much it will cost". You sit at a table for free because you care but you sit with paid professionals who have a plan. That plan is not the same as yours but they don't really say that as you enjoy a glass of beer while they sip their wine after the initial get together.
75% of the people at the table want no access anywhere for motorized (anti anything with an engine people), wheeled (anti anything except walking people) or unregistered (here's some more cash to grab) lobbyists. Their funding is from organizations like Greenpeace, Vancouverites against pipelines, heli ski owner groups, remote guiding (lol) tour owners against anybody else in their area and of course, the government. They are paid to be there to control the outcome.
The other 25% are there with promises of less conflict initiated by these other groups thus control of their own. Never happens though because of the word "consensus".

They come to do their job of shutting out the people with interests different than their own. They have decades of experience and oodles of cash and time. It started with individual areas like Revy and Valemount, in the sleddin scene, and now they want the next step of "everywhere" because "look, everyone in this demographic of users has agreed".

Don't know how long you have been in the sport Dave but did you know that at one time not too long ago everyone rode for free in BC. A unique place in the world not just Canada. We took care of keeping trails open and cabins stocked with wood for free because it needed to be done.
Did you know that back then there was way more sledders, especially families of sledders. How is that grooming to a fancy cabin and charging an ever increasing fee at the bottom working out again?

You make a living posting purdy pictures of Dave Norona "free riding" in the hills. Think about that, the "free riding" you emulate, and how it came to be. Hint,,, it wasn't Burant. Do you see your children having the same opportunity?
After they corral us into one manageable group they will further restrict us with speed limits and stick to trails rules with helicopters dropping down to fine "abusers". Don't laugh. I got nailed in the 70's in California this way. It will all be done with the blessing of groups like BCSF to "civilize" the sport.

You are part of the "elite" Dave, that refuses to acknowledge your roots. The "roots" are the family days with a fire going and people getting stuck everywhere while experimenting with style and machine. God didn't invent the G4. Family days did with no organization or laws forcing them to pay to play "for the better good".
Bottom line, "fees" = more money= less people and "rules" = restrictions = less people.
If you wish to have the same job in a decade or for your children to experience the same limited freedom you have now,,, you should think about my POV.

Holy shxt
this was this was just the best read
I have seen on this forum this year

print it out and put it on the shop wall boyz
lol

 

[Depsnolvr]

This has been an interesting read. I certainly appreciate everyone's passion. After all, we all have one thing in common, we are all sledders.

I truly believe that the great people at the BCSF need funding to help further the future of our sport although I do not believe that this is the best method to go about it.

The survey is interesting, of course the majority of people (especially those from outside the province of BC) would like to ride more cost effectively and we will certainly see this from the results of this survey, but would this come at the demise of clubs and their ability to operate with some form of certainty?

When I buy a seasons pass at Whistler, I still need to buy a lift ticket at Marmot Basin if I decide to change things up or like others have stated, I can choose to go tour up in undeveloped backcountry for free if that is my wish.

In the end we need to remember that this idea came from good people that are thinking of ideas to better snowmobiling and protect our future. While I dont agree with this one idea, I do appreciate all they do and their efforts. I also understand that we need to continue to support the BSCF and we need to do it in a better way, I just dont think this is it.

Keep it constructive and keep it civil.

Ride safe

 

[tex78]

So BCSF, I have a question for some clarification. What is the ultimate goal of the one pass for the province? Is this meant to replace the local membership fees charged by the individual clubs and will go towards individual club funding and this give you access to every trail up to the riding area no matter where in the province it is?

The one idea, yes would be able to ride all areas with one pass

But for example, my 200 buck pass to sicamous, the club would now Probably only get 120 of that 200 ( just a guess)

How is the club going to stay going with a revenue drop that much, and the extra money gets divided out to clubs with no cabins, groomers, over head ect

sent while drinking tea's

 

[Lund]

The one idea, yes would be able to ride all areas with one pass

But for example, my 200 buck pass to sicamous, the club would now Probably only get 120 of that 200 ( just a guess)

How is the club going to stay going with a revenue drop that much, and the extra money gets divided out to clubs with no cabins, groomers, over head ect

sent while drinking tea's

Correct me if i'm wrong Jeff but that's not the idea.
In your case where you buy your season pass with Sicamous the club would get those funds. But you would be restricted to riding only Sicamous club trail's, your club would not suffer from its membership unless members bought provincial passes instead. When you go else where you would have to buy a day pass, that you should get at a discounted rate. Basically the way thing are today. Nothing changes.
The difference would be, only to people who do not belong to a club and snowmobile in our province or on multiple club trails. They are the unknown, not registered to any club, basically lost numbers and non contributor's. They only pay a day pass when asked to do so, but now would be a registered member of BCSF. They would purchase a provincial pass. This would allow them to ride multiple areas, possibly at a discounted rate.
Eitherway it would drive the BCSF membership up and that is what is needed to have a voice with government.
There is a lot of fear mongering with those use to a way of doing thing's. I don't see membership dropping with club members that ride their own areas regularly.
The provincial pass will still require you to buy a day pass to help support the club your riding at, but i would believe it would be at a discounted rate like the current system.

 

[tex78]

Not from what I was told, only one pass

sent while drinking tea's

 

[Lund]

Not from what I was told, only one pass

sent while drinking tea's

No, that would never work. Thing's as current won't change. What they are trying to do is drive numbers up by making non members buy a pass. Going by the understanding that many ride multiple areas and never register with any one club. The support of clubs here is important because to make it work the front line people need to educate those that don't belong to any club that buying either a club membership or provincial pass is required to ride club trails.
The incentive would be like it is today. You ride so many times and the pass pays for it self. But then for occasional rider's a day pass would suit them best...and that's ok.

 

[ferniesnow]

No matter how it comes down the pipe there will be disgruntled clubs. The powers to be (Saskatchewan Snowmobile Association) in Saskatchewan say their distribution system is great. In talking to some of the Saskatchewan clubs at a Saskatoon sled show, the clubs have a different spin on the distribution of monies.

If it is law for every sled to have a Provincial Pass (just like registration) and it is actually enforced, there may be hope. But it isn't going to work by robbing Peter to pay Paul or taking from the rich to help the poor. Sort of like the Federal Equalization payments. How many of you supporters of a PP like the fact that Ontario and Quebec take most of the monies?

 

[LBZ]

Holy cow where is the BCSF? Need some clarification here.

 

[Lund]

BCSF now would see an increase in membership numbers and an increase of funds. The problem i would think is how do they distribute those funds to the clubs fairly?
In reality all the clubs should see an increase in funds received by BCSF with the increase of members and not a decrease.

 

[thegeneral]

This is the only thing I can think of since I read the op.