Get Behind This People- Avy Card Idea - Everyone Please Read!

[steel town]

I work at a small dealer in "the Big City". We have made the AST1 manditory for our staff , no AVY course, no sledding.


We have a "check off box" on our walkthrough sheets which I make the customer sign, which says "Recomended Avalance Awareness Course" and equiptment( Peeps, probe, shovel). I give Hangfire and Zacs tracks brouchures to my customers in their new unit folder with the nvis.

We also display all the gear (beacons, probes, shovels and ABS bags), right upfront. .

 

[GasCan]

I work at a small dealer in "the Big City". We have made the AST1 manditory for our staff , no AVY course, no sledding.


We have a "check off box" on our walkthrough sheets which I make the customer sign, which says "Recomended Avalance Awareness Course" and equiptment( Peeps, probe, shovel). I give Hangfire and Zacs tracks brouchures to my customers in their new unit folder with the nvis.

We also display all the gear (beacons, probes, shovels and ABS bags), right upfront. .

Lot's of good ideas coming out here. Like to hear that and know you guys support it well.

G.

 

[sledslut]

Great idea.

Ps i think you just like your business cards there gas can!! Lol

 

[Steve D]

We also display all the gear (beacons, probes, shovels and ABS bags), right upfront. .

This. Every dealer should be promoting this.

 

[GasCan]

Great idea.

Ps i think you just like your business cards there gas can!! Lol

Owning a security company, photo identification is simply one of our business channels that we support. I also sell the dye sublimation printers that can be used to personalize cards like this for those who need to print plastic cards, and yes...the one shown does look a lot like my business card.

Coincidence? I think not! lmao

 

[ferniesnow]

..... I think all of us that have completed our AST 1 course recently have to get the course providers to provide this for us!!.....

Give me a break; we pay our way period!! Not to turn this around into something negative, as GasCan has a great idea, but come on and don't look for handouts.

If it costs; it costs! And that my forum people is the cost of doing business.

Course conductors could send the paper work to the CAC, they issue the card/decal upon payment of $30. $5 for shipping and handling and $25 goes in the kitty of the badly strapped CAC. I think it is a great idea and we will pay our way!!

 

[Shibby!]

I agree on both sides, but there are many important points.

1) The one Shawn mentions. You can sit through the weekend course and be no further head then the next guy. Some people make the right decision, some, with a very limited experience to the knowledge continue to make the wrong one. On top of this all info is easily available on the net.

2) Truthfully, how much did people learn in the AST1 course?

I've only did the classroom portion of the class, and I'll be honest and say I learnt very little. 98% of the information in the classroom portion I already knew, and could easily be found on the internet. Let it be clear, I spent HOURS, even days & weeks reading about avalanche information before even buying my sled. It was no surprise to me the AST1 classroom course did very little.

Now for part 2. The field. Ironically enough, this is why I took the classroom portion. But sadly enough, I have not completed it because I am having a difficult time persuading my fellow sled buddies to take the course so we can all practice together. IMO, the most important part. To vouch for me is every single person I ride with, unfortunately I have yet to make it work and am at that point of just doing it to get the knowledge for myself (which mostly only helps them...). Anybody who rides with me knows I usually push the safety stuff the most. A few of which can probably recall night searches which were a bit of an eye opener =)

 

[GasCan]

Granted...there is a lot of info that people can find on the net, but I think the classroom portion of the course outlines a lot of what to look for on the hills and gives people some deeper knowledge of the types of snow involved in weakened layers and how to spot them easier.

I then headed to Golden a month later (I went solo) and did the field portion with a group of others. That was the outstanding part of the training and the part I really learned from. Digging pits, analyzing snow packs, frost layers, and shovel tests to see where it breaks. How risky the area is, and on top of that, we performed extensive beacon searches with many different styles of beacons. Last was a search with multiple burials, and one non beacon probe search with a dig out of a dummy that was buried at 1 meter down. Learned lots there as well as there's a right way to dig somebody out, and a wrong way!

Amazing course and the most important part for anyone who rides with a group in the mountains. Next for me is the AST-2 and practicing my skills more often.

 

[stuckenough]

Have to add that I took the course and got tons of knowledge out of it, but other maybe not. It all depends on the motives in which they took the course.
I think there should be some sort of testing in the end to see if you even paid attention or just showed up because your wife or buddies hounded you.
I totally agree that anyone heading into the backcountry in the winter should have avy training or your a fool...like I've been for years and just got lucky.

 

[Shibby!]

It all depends on the motives in which they took the course.
I think there should be some sort of testing in the end to see if you even paid attention or just showed up because your wife or buddies hounded you.

How motivated you were, or how much knowledge you LACKED prior to going in.

Two complete different things.

Also talking about right and wrong way to dig people out. This stuff can be found on the net as well.

I just hate to isolate those who think they know because they have the AST1 certification, and those that do know without the certification. I think that's a major fault.

As said above, I know AST1 holders I care not to ride with, and know others who don't and I trust them way more with my life.

 

[foothills m8]

Good thoughts all good, just seems like another driver`s lic and what are the stat`s on them.........I guess with choices comes consenquences.Its happing 24-7 .Maybe a thinking card is what we need.

 

[imdoo'n]

like, that you are thinking, but in my opinion just something else to carry that has no meaning or benefit. you can refuse to ride with those that don't have training now and it costs you nothing. the only thing i see that might work is a sticker for the sled, keep the cost reasonable for replacement etc.
i just see a wasted weekend if you forget your card. a sticker like a sled club has would be always on your sled. i just can't see a lot of benefit as i ride with those without training, but educate when the need arises. you will have to have some monetary benefit, trail pass, insurance, fines etc otherwise a good idea but i think impractical
i think i'm out and not really liking this idea the more i think about it.

 

[GasCan]

Were talking about a .35 cent card being issued over that of a piece of paper to show who has training and to what level whether it be AST1 or AST2. I would still think the majority would support a card to say they have taken a course and understand snow packs, know how to use a beacon etc. I can always say no to riding with someone, but it would be nice rolling up on a group and be able to readily identify who has what skills and who doesn't.

 

[foothills m8]

Its all good. Just thinking with All the differnt people i ride with and diff areas and with those with the most updated training skills,I have only had 1 person dig 2 snow pits ? Kinda takes me back to were i have dug them. I guess the bottom line is when i go i think of were i am going and look at the conditions as to were i am going and read LOTS on internet as to were i am going and if i have to ask questions.But with all that has happend i am sure that it is going to be Very imporant to join a sledding club to hear ALL our points of View as its only going to get tuffer.

 

[08summit]

Lots of good ideas in your post gascan but like stated above taking a weekend course doesn't make you any smarter or automatically give you what some of us call "common sense".

You said it would be nice to roll up on a group and know who has what skills and who doesn't...I'm a little more fussy then you with whom I'm trusting my life with...just because someone has a certificate doesn't make them any safer or smarter.

I'm not trying to knock your suggestions as I think everyone who rides in the mountians today should have proper training but that being said I ride with some guys who have no formal training that I trust to ride with (therefore basically trust with my life) and have in the past rode with some that have all the training you can take and they are still idiots.

Like I said lots of good Ideas out there but a certificate around your neck or a sticker on your sled isn't going to impress me....just another fee for us all to pay @ the end of the year.

 

[gm3d]

Somehow we must get pass 'It won't happen to me' and I'm 10 feet tall and bullet proof" Sorry...Avy proof. Take the training and realize the REAL danger. White death is real and it really doesn't help our sport when we loose people for ANY reason. The media and the tree hugger love it and it gives them something to bit@h about, and amunition to go to the government and try to get us banned from the backcountry.

Prayers for the familys of the lost!

Play safe and come home. Ride another day.

 

[08summit]

Its all good. Just thinking with All the differnt people i ride with and diff areas and with those with the most updated training skills,I have only had 1 person dig 2 snow pits ? Kinda takes me back to were i have dug them. I guess the bottom line is when i go i think of were i am going and look at the conditions as to were i am going and read LOTS on internet as to were i am going and if i have to ask questions.But with all that has happend i am sure that it is going to be Very imporant to join a sledding club to hear ALL our points of View as its only going to get tuffer.

Digging snowpits is something everyone should do when riding but we can't dig a pit everywhere we ride...unlike skiers we put on alot of miles in many different types of terrian in the course of a day. With todays machines it doesn't take long to travel 10-15km where everything can be totally different from where you just came from. Stop and look for the hazards,traps, and any signs of danger when you get to a new area but if we were to stop and dig a pit on every slope we encounter in a day there would be no time to ride as your day would be spent digging.

 

[ferniesnow]

Digging snowpits is something everyone should do when riding but we can't dig a pit everywhere we ride...unlike skiers we put on alot of miles in many different types of terrian in the course of a day. With todays machines it doesn't take long to travel 10-15km where everything can be totally different from where you just came from. Stop and look for the hazards,traps, and any signs of danger when you get to a new area but if we were to stop and dig a pit on every slope we encounter in a day there would be no time to ride as your day would be spent digging.

I'm not saying digging pits would bring you home but an AST1 course should help to bring you home. If I dug a pit last week on a particular aspect, in a particular area and I paid attention to the weather in that area during the next week I wouldn't necessarily have to dig another pit on that aspect. We need to open our eyes and pay attention to what is going on. I live in the mountains and I think I know what the weather has been like prior to riding but I always pay attention. I understand that it is difficult to come to the mountains and ride for a couple of days, leave it alone for the wekk and come back again and expect everything to be the same. If more riders had respect for Mother Nature, whether it be with an AST1 course, common sense, or just plain old back-country knowledge our sledding community would be a lot better off.

If you see 100 riders at the cabin with a fancy stylish decal or pocket card showing on their person or sled stating that they have some history of official avalanche training I think it might be motivational for some to get with the program. Others, I know, wouldn't give a sh*t......but that is their decision.

We need to wake up and smell the coffee and since tomorrow is the first day of spring, maybe the roses......

 

[CUSO]

I am totally into this.
Sure there are many people who have taken an AST-1 course and are still pushing the envelope, but you have to know who you ride with.
I have ridden with some people who you would think were avalanche aware and they talk about creating their own slides, and still ride with more than one on a hill.... this card might be the answer to removing all doubt.
Perhaps discounts on accommodations, gear and such could be recognized, kinda like an AMA card.

Another idea, if you buy a new mountain sled, you should pay an extra 500$ on top if you don't have a card, but fully refundable when you take an AST-1 course.... or throw in a free avy course and up the price on a sled.... unless you have the card.
An incentive is needed.

 

[snoqueen]

Give me a break; we pay our way period!! Not to turn this around into something negative, as GasCan has a great idea, but come on and don't look for handouts.

If it costs; it costs! And that my forum people is the cost of doing business.

Course conductors could send the paper work to the CAC, they issue the card/decal upon payment of $30. $5 for shipping and handling and $25 goes in the kitty of the badly strapped CAC. I think it is a great idea and we will pay our way!!

I'm sorry if you thought I was looking for handouts.....I didn't mean that the course providers would provide these cards free of charge!! What I meant was....for the people that already paid the $350 for the course in the last few months could get a card for a nominal fee......My family and I took the AST 1 course in January 2010 with ZAC'S, so we shelled out close to $1000 for the 3 of us to take the course. It was the BEST money we spent this season....bar none. I don't mind paying my way I think GasCan is on to something here. It is a tool to promote this course and get more sledders on board. I really do believe that the course providers will be more than willing to look at this idea and promote it.